The Thread Killer Talks Too Much: The Recaps

[MoS]

Apropos nothing, but who the fuck buys a dream house in fucking WYOMING

[C.S.]

3 hours ago, MoS said:

Apropos nothing, but who the fuck buys a dream house in fucking WYOMING

Being in the middle of nowhere with tons of acres of land appeals to some people. Brock apparently has a similar setup somewhere. 

[NintendoLogic]

6 hours ago, MoS said:

Apropos nothing, but who the fuck buys a dream house in fucking WYOMING

 

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

Being in the middle of nowhere with tons of acres of land appeals to some people. Brock apparently has a similar setup somewhere. 

People who really like to hunt and fish, in other words.

By the way, Bischoff wasn't just on the verge of bankruptcy. He and his wife actually filed for bankruptcy in 2017.

https://www.docketbird.com/court-cases/ERIC-A-BISCHOFF-and-LOREE-E-BISCHOFF/azb-2:2017-bk-05021

Note that they filed under Chapter 11, which is what corporations like GM use when they need to restructure their debts to remain in business. It's also used by celebrities like MC Hammer who blow all their money. So the Bischoffs must have been up to their eyeballs in debt.

[The Thread Killer]

Okay guys, now that I have recapped the saga of Eric Bischoff's departure from WWE, I am ready to consider tackling my next epic recap.

I wanted to get some feedback from you guys, so I figured I'd make a list of what podcasts/interviews I have available and see if any particular one jumps out at you, that you'd like to see me tackle first.  Of course, if there is something that is not on the list that you'd like to see me take a crack at, feel free to ask and I'll see what I can do.

Here's what I have...

"Vader goes down"  Recapped on 01/11/21

Arn Anderson gives Conrad Thompson his eyewitness account of the infamous night he witnessed Paul Orndorff giver Vader a beating in the WCW locker room. This of course is the incident which resulted in Vader being released from WCW.

"The Plane Ride From Hell"  Recapped on 01/29/21

Jim Ross was the Vice President of Talent Relations and was a passenger on  the infamous flight from England back to the United States on May 5, 2002 when...all hell broke loose.  They still talk about this flight, 18 years later.  If rumors are true, you had drinks getting spiked, Ric Flair showing off his "little Naitch", Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar wrestling in the aisles, Goldust getting drunk and serenading his ex-wife over the PA system, flight attendants getting sexually harassed, and most infamously...Michael Hayes getting his mullet cut off.  JR was there to witness the carnage, and had to deal with the fallout, which included more than one talent getting released.

Eric Bischoff interviews David Arquette  Recapped on 01/24/21

On the anniversary of David Arquette's "historic" WCW title win, he sits down with Eric Bischoff to discuss his win, his love of Pro Wrestling, "Ready to Rumble" and his upcoming documentary.

"Four Star Summit"

Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alverez, Wade Keller and Bruce Mitchell sit down together for a round table discussion on the business of Pro Wrestling journalism.

I included this on the list because it is not available anywhere aside from Ad Free Shows and Fite TV, so it's exclusive content.  If you guys vote to hear about this, I will recap it...but if you really love me, you won't make me listen to this.

"The Monday Night Wars Debate"

Eric Bischoff and Bruce Prichard debate The Monday Night Wars in front of a live audience.  I haven't listened to this, but I'm betting my bullshit-meter will explode if I do.

"War Games Revisited"

JJ Dillon, Tully Blanchard, Lex Luger and Road Warrior Animal are interviewed regarding the original War Games.

"The Death of WCW Debate"

In front of a live audience, Eric Bischoff debates RD Reynolds regarding the accuracy of his book "The Death of WCW."  (RD Reynolds was the co-author with Bryan Alverez, who despite being in attendance, declined the invitation to participate in this debate.)

"Eric Fires Back"

I love this series. Conrad plays clips from various Shoot Interviews of people talking shit about Eric Bischoff, and gives Bischoff the chance to respond.  In this first episode, Conrad plays clips by Jim Cornette, Bret Hart and more.  I don't know how well these would come across in transcript form, but they make for highly entertaining listening.

"Eric Fires Back: Part Two"

This show was supposed to be a "one off" but the fan response to the first show was so overwhelmingly popular that Conrad did a second episode.  This show features more bitterness from Bret Hart and some truly delusional nonsense from Greg Gagne, which prompts a truly epic reaction from Eric Bischoff.  Anybody who has ever heard or seen a Shoot Interview from either Greg Gagne or Mike Graham knows that for years both of them took credit for bringing Hulk Hogan into WCW.  At one point, Greg Gagne actually took credit for the creation of the NWO as well. Now Bischoff gets a chance to tell his side...and he is not pulling any punches, trust me.

Eric Bischoff meets Tony Khan

Conrad Thompson introduces his two friends Eric and Tony to each other, and then basically rolls tape and records their conversation for about 90 minutes.  It's a bit of a mutual admiration society, but it's not without interest.

Jim Ross interviews Cody Rhodes

Pretty much what the title says.  This was recorded right after "All In" when Cody won the NWA World's Heavyweight Championship, and he sits down to talk to Jim Ross.

"JR Fires Back"

Based on the overwhelming popularity of the "Eric Fires Back" series, Conrad Thompson tries the same formula with Jim Ross...he plays clips from various Shoot Interviews over the years with Pro Wrestlers shitting on Jim Ross...and then gives JR a chance to respond.  I didn't enjoy this at all.  Firstly, many of the "talents" who are highlighted are pretty much lowlife scumbags like Road Dogg and Bryan Clarke, and they spend time mocking JR's facial paralysis which is just sad.  You can tell by JR's reaction that it just upsets him and kind of depresses him, so he is very calm and diplomatic in most of his responses.  The whole appeal of the "Eric Fires Back" series is that for the most part, Eric Bischoff gives ZERO fucks and he lets loose on most of the rebuttals in fashion that would rival Jim Cornette.  When JR doesn't rise to the bait, the whole idea just doesn't work.  Conrad later commented in one of his "Ask Conrad Anything" podcasts that he knew this episode was a major misfire.  He assumed that because JR is so damn crabby all the time that this would make for entertaining listening, but it really doesn't.  This podcast formula is awesome for Eric Bischoff and even Tony Schiavone but this didn't work out well at all.

"Tony Fires Back"

You have to say this for Conrad Thompson, when he finds a formula that works for him...he goes with it.  As I said, the "Eric Fires Back" podcasts are some of the most popular shows he has ever done behind the paywall, so he wastes no time trying to duplicate the success...here he tries with Tony Schiavone.  This goes much better than "JR Fires Back."  The only problem is, there really aren't that many people who have anything bad to say about Tony, so there isn't as much to work with. 

Interesting sidenote:  Conrad says that he absolutely cannot wait to do an episode of "Bruce Fires Back" where he plays all the shit people have said about Bruce Prichard over the years and lets Bruce respond...but Bruce is legally prohibited from doing something like that by WWE, as long as he is an executive there.  Conrad has claimed that as soon as Bruce leaves WWE, that is one of the first things he wants to do.

"Ask Megan Anything"

This is a Q&A, where Ad Free Shows subscribers sent in questions for Conrad Thompson's wife to answer.  As you would expect, 99% of the questions are about what it's like growing up with Ric Flair as a father, and what it's like being married to Conrad Thompson, aka: "The Podfather."

"Ask Lori Anything"

Lori Bischoff takes questions from Ad Free Shows members about what it's like being married to "Easy E."  For those of you wondering...yes somebody actually gets up the nerve to ask her about posing for Playboy, the "Atlanta Gold Club" scandal back in 2001, and the subsequent rumors about her and Eric's relationship with Dallas and Kimberly Page.  She expertly dodges the question about the Gold Club (probably because Eric admitted under oath that the allegations were true) but flatly denies the rumors about DDP and his wife.  Then again, those allegations came from Scott Steiner...so I don't know how much stock I'd put into them anyhow.

"Ask Erin Anything"

This is a Q&A with fan submitted questions for Erin Lundy, Arn Anderson's wife.  The main takeaway from this is that she sounds like pretty much the sweetest, nicest woman you'd ever want to meet...and he has little to no clue about anything about Arn's career.  I'm not surprised, but I guess Arn was one of those guys who left his work at work.

"Ask Lois Anything"

Anybody who has ever listened to even a couple of episodes of Tony Schiavone's podcast knows that his wife Lois is...quite a character.  She's almost become a legendary figure in Conrad's little podcast world.  The woman is extremely opinionated, quite funny at times and has a sharp answer for just about anything.  I chose not to listen to this because I don't really listen to Tony's podcast all that much (I'm not a big fan of the "watch along" format.)  Also, Lois Schiavone is a full fledged, die hard MAGA hat wearing, Trump supporter.  While I am not a left wing person at all, I don't much care to hear from Trump supporters, either.  I find both the far left and the far right very obnoxious, and I tend to avoid both if at all possible.  I don't know if Lois used this podcast as an excuse to start ranting about politics, but I figured it would be safer for me to avoid it. I don't want to hear Lois Schiavone praising Trump any more than I want to listen to Jim Cornette bash him.  I find political talk tiresome, so this was a hard pass for me.  But if anybody really wants to hear it...I'll recap it.

"Eric Fires Back: Part Three"

Conrad his back with his third instalment of this incredibly popular series.  This is good shit, pal.

"Behind The Paint With Sting"

Tony Schiavone sits down with Sting and does an fairly interesting interview.  Sting is a lot more engaging and entertaining during this interview than he has been in most other interviews I've seen him give, probably because it was before a live crowd and he's very comfortable talking to Tony.

"Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn: An Extreme Rivalary"

RVD and Mr. JL sit down in front of a live audience and discuss their famous rivalry in ECW.

"Eric Fires Back: Part Four"

This is pretty good, but unfortunately they are running out of clips of people bashing Bischoff for him to respond to.

Conversations with Conrad featuring Jim Herd  Recapped on 01/21/21

This is one of the exclusive interviews I alluded to when I first talked about starting this thread and doing more recaps.  Conrad managed to land an exclusive interview with one of the more controversial figures in the entire history of WCW, former WCW President Jim Herd.  This interview was somewhat noteworthy because Herd had pretty much vanished and not given an interview in over 20 years...and a couple of the things he said during this interview ended up making some of the Pro Wrestling "newz" sites.

"I Quit" with Magnum TA and Tully Blanchard

Tony Schiavone sits down with Magnum and Tully to discuss their feud and this classic match.

Mailbag with Mike Chioda

Starting at the beginning of November 2020, former WWE referee (of 30 years) and current AEW referee Mike Chioda started doing a weekly Q&A podcast, taking questions from Ad Free Shows subscribers.  This show has been surprisingly entertaining, and has actually resulted in a few newsworthy revelations regarding payoffs and other backstage goings on in WWE. This has been way more interesting than I ever would have expected.  If anybody actually wants me to recap some of this show, I would do it.

Mailbag with Gerry Brisco

Gerald Brisco alternates weeks on the "Mailbag" podcast, with Mike Chioda.  I have to be honest, I don't much care for this and I rarely listen to it.  Brisco is like a lot of old school guys who want to cash in on the whole podcast and Shoot Interview phenomenon.  They want the money, but are pretty stingy with the details and are very careful about what the say. I swear some of these older guys are still trying to maintain "kayfabe."  There's not a lot of substance here and this podcast hasn't ended up being anywhere near as popular as I think Conrad was hoping it would be.  I think the original idea was that this was going to be huge and the Mike Chioda episodes were going to be filler basically, but it's ended up being the other way around and Chioda's is actually extremely popular.  Having said that, Brisco's tribute to Pat Patterson was apparently quite good, as you'd expect.

Ask Conrad Anything

Ever since Ad Free Shows launched, Conrad has been doing regular "AMA" podcasts with the members. Surprisingly, these have ended up being some of my favorite shows to listen to. They are a mixed bag.  Conrad knows his audience, so he is extremely transparent and is willing to discuss pretty much anything as long as he is legally able to do it.  That's why I was able to post lengthy recaps about his relationship with Vince Russo and Jim Cornette...it was all based on information from this show.  Conrad is totally up front about the technical and financial details of his podcast empire, and if you're interested in that kind of thing it can be a really intriguing listen.  He also ends up giving a ton of financial and mortgage advice, which is less interesting to me...although his explanation of the housing collapse in 2008 was a damn entertaining episode.  He also gets a lot of those ridiculous "who is on your Mount Rushmore" and fantasy booking questions too.

And finally, just posted today as I write this...

"Sharpshooter: Bret Hart in his own words"

Bret Hart sits down for an in depth interview with Sean Mooney, in front of a live audience.

* * * * *

EDIT: In the interest of full disclosure, there are a couple of interviews with The Young Bucks on Ad Free Shows...but here's the thing.  I would rather take a red hot flaming poker right in the ass than listen to a Young Bucks interview...never mind going to all the trouble of having to recap it, because that means you have to listen to it twice.  So as much as I love PWO and as much love as I have for all my PWO Good Brothers?  Me recapping a Young Bucks interview is never going to happen. I'd just as soon listen to Nickelback, dammit.  Not gonna happen.

* * * * *

So there's the menu, so far.  Like I said, I am also willing to consider requests to recap any other podcasts or interviews you might have seen elsewhere, but otherwise if anybody reading this wants to see a recap of anything listed above...please reply in this thread and let me know.  Thanks!

[The Thread Killer]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:52 PM, MoS said:

Our Dave is the fucking man. I don't even like Bischoff at all, but TTK's recaps are absolutely epic.

 

On 1/10/2021 at 12:03 AM, Matt D said:

Great recap. 

 

On 1/10/2021 at 2:12 AM, C.S. said:

Another tremendous, tremendous recap, @The Thread Killer. This has quickly become my favorite thread on PWO

 

On 1/10/2021 at 10:34 AM, NintendoLogic said:

Thank you for this incredibly detailed write-up.

 

20 hours ago, C.S. said:

What a superb analysis, @The Thread Killer.

Thanks very much for the positive feedback brothers.

[The Thread Killer]

12 hours ago, MoS said:

Apropos nothing, but who the fuck buys a dream house in fucking WYOMING

 

8 hours ago, C.S. said:

Being in the middle of nowhere with tons of acres of land appeals to some people. Brock apparently has a similar setup somewhere. 

 

5 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

People who really like to hunt and fish, in other words.

I don't hunt (I'm an animal rights guy...even though I've never been able to stick to a vegetarian or vegan diet, despite a couple of attempts) but I do fish.  Even still, I have to be honest...the idea of living on a ranch in the middle of nowhere does appeal to me.

Besides, I don't know if anybody ever saw that documentary WWE did on Bischoff: "Eric Bischoff - Sports Entertainment's Most Controversial Figure" but they filmed the interviews with him at his place in Wyoming. There is footage of him fishing, sitting on his porch, at a bonfire and sitting in his living room and I have to say...it looks like a pretty nice place and beautiful area.  If I could afford to live somewhere like that, I would.  Just probably not in the dead of winter.

[Blehschmidt]

Vader Goes Down, and any of the "Fires Back" pieces would get my vote.

Appreciate these write ups! Super cool of you to do.

[C.S.]

Arquette won't get any votes, but it has mine.

The documentary is on Hulu now, so watching that and then reading @The Thread Killer's recap sounds like a perfect "double feature" to me.

[Perfectly Straightedge]

I would like to see any of the fires back especially for JR and Eric.

I think it boils down in what you actually want to type a review for.  I am okay with anything as I have ZERO desire to shell out any money to Conrad. So I am just thankful for anything.

Also I think the Brisco mailbag would be a fun listen and the same for Chioda. Who I still can't believe got the boot from WWE.

[Log]

Loving these recaps!

As far as future ones, I'd vote:
Vader - Plane ride from Hell - Wargame - I Quit Match

Those all sound fun.

[Alucard]

Love the recaps, great job on the Bischoff one. 

Looking forward to any thing we get... I'll send votes to the Plane Ride, War Games, all the fires backs.... and Sting, RVD/Lynn, Bret all sound like unique fun listens.

[Migs]

The live stuff from Starrcast I found generally underwhelmed - maybe it's the setting, but it just didn't always seem conducive to a deep conversation unless someone was very open.

Also, I don't need a full recap of Ask Megan Anything (I really do not care about being married to Conrad), but would be interested in some highlights regarding Ric Flair as a dad. That just seems like the craziest experience.

[NintendoLogic]

The Death of WCW Debate might be fun to pick apart. My understanding is that Bischoff bullshitted his way through the whole thing and caught Reynolds completely flat-footed.

[sek69]

So I pretty much agree with TTK's theory that Eric realized pretty quickly that he wasn't going to be a good fit for WWE's weird ass "free time is for pussies" corporate culture, and his description of the first several weeks being nothing but meetings is pretty much my definition of hell. I also pretty much agree with Conrad that bringing in Eric and Paul as heads of each brand was largely done to make it look like Vince was delegating so he wouldn't get sued by shareholders over running WWE and the XFL at the same time. There's no proof that would stand up in court of course, but it sure seemed like once it looked like Vince wasn't going to get sued by shareholders the idea that Eric and Paul would have any meaningful roles went way.

However it cracked me up where he went from stating he hated how his 16 hour days involved lots of downtime,  to stating Dave was lying when he said Eric was sitting around doing nothing (which he didn't even do in the way Eric said he did). It honestly comes off as Trumplike projecting at times, accusing others of things he himself did. Or maybe Rick James from the Chappelle show skit, I can just see Eric denying he ever dug his boots on Dave's couch before admitting that, yes he did in fact dig his boots in the couch.

The rasslin' business is a hell of a drug.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I'd vote for sticking with Bischoff and doing the Eric Fires Back series.

Thanks for doing this, by the way.

[The Thread Killer]

48 minutes ago, sek69 said:

However it cracked me up where he went from stating he hated how his 16 hour days involved lots of downtime,  to stating Dave was lying when he said Eric was sitting around doing nothing (which he didn't even do in the way Eric said he did). It honestly comes off as Trumplike projecting at times, accusing others of things he himself did. Or maybe Rick James from the Chappelle show skit, I can just see Eric denying he ever dug his boots on Dave's couch before admitting that, yes he did in fact dig his boots in the couch.

The rasslin' business is a hell of a drug.

The Bischoff/Meltzer dynamic is so fractured at this point that it's comical.  Meltzer could report that the sky is blue, and Bischoff would deny it, or claim that Meltzer has no first hand understanding of the sky, so his opinion doesn't mean anything.  Conversely, Bischoff could come up with a cure for COVID-19, and Meltzer would give somebody else the credit, or make a bunch of snide comments claiming somebody else must have done it for him. 

[The Thread Killer]

That's four votes already for the "Fires Back" series, so that is probably the one I'll tackle next.  I would have figured that people had read enough about Eric Bischoff for now.  I also would have thought the Jim Herd interview would have sparked a bit more interest.  There has been a couple of votes for the "Vader Goes Down" episode and that one is pretty short, so I might do that first, just as a palate cleanser before listening to more Bischoff.

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, Migs said:

I don't need a full recap of Ask Megan Anything (I really do not care about being married to Conrad), but would be interested in some highlights regarding Ric Flair as a dad. That just seems like the craziest experience.

That's the whole reason I listened to it, for the Ric Flair stories.  Thing is, she barely knows her father, sadly. She grew up in Minnesota with her Mom who Ric had already divorced when she was a kid. Ric was in to North Carolina, with his second wife (Beth) and Reid and Ashley (Charlotte.)  Megan and David are his kids from his first marriage and they did not see him much at all growing up. (Not that his other kids saw him much either...but at least he "lived" with them.)  It sounds like he basically felt guilty and spoiled the hell out of her when he did see her.  She loves her Dad, but she very obviously resents him and she pretty much hates Professional Wrestling...so there's not a lot interesting in that podcast.  You have to remember that most AFS subscribers are Conrad fanboys, so a lot of the questions end up being about what she and Conrad like to eat, and what shows they watch.  Riveting stuff.

[Dooley]

I'd lend an ear to the Jim Herd piece.

[Perfectly Straightedge]

1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

That's the whole reason I listened to it, for the Ric Flair stories.  Thing is, she barely knows her father, sadly. She grew up in Minnesota with her Mom who Ric had already divorced when she was a kid. Ric was in to North Carolina, with his second wife (Beth) and Reid and Ashley (Charlotte.)  Megan and David are his kids from his first marriage and they did not see him much at all growing up. (Not that his other kids saw him much either...but at least he "lived" with them.)  It sounds like he basically felt guilty and spoiled the hell out of her when he did see her.  She loves her Dad, but she very obviously resents him and she pretty much hates Professional Wrestling...so there's not a lot interesting in that podcast.  You have to remember that most AFS subscribers are Conrad fanboys, so a lot of the questions end up being about what she and Conrad like to eat, and what shows they watch.  Riveting stuff.

Not really shocking....kinda what I expected to hear. 

[sek69]

It's interesting that she hates professional wrestling, yet she married a guy who's so involved in it. Like I know Conrad's main gig is his mortgage business, but he's put quite a lot into his wrestling podcast career and by all accounts he's done well financially with it.  

It's funny how so many folks with ties to the business, even negative ones like hers or the third generation Von Erich kids,  still end up getting involved even if it's a secondary involvment. 

[Migs]

2 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

That's the whole reason I listened to it, for the Ric Flair stories.  Thing is, she barely knows her father, sadly. She grew up in Minnesota with her Mom who Ric had already divorced when she was a kid. Ric was in to North Carolina, with his second wife (Beth) and Reid and Ashley (Charlotte.)  Megan and David are his kids from his first marriage and they did not see him much at all growing up. (Not that his other kids saw him much either...but at least he "lived" with them.)  It sounds like he basically felt guilty and spoiled the hell out of her when he did see her.  She loves her Dad, but she very obviously resents him and she pretty much hates Professional Wrestling...so there's not a lot interesting in that podcast.  You have to remember that most AFS subscribers are Conrad fanboys, so a lot of the questions end up being about what she and Conrad like to eat, and what shows they watch.  Riveting stuff.

Thanks! Didn't realize she didn't live with him at all. I guess I have always just imagined Ric Flair being the weirdest Thanksgiving guest, coming to dinner with full Flair energy,  whooing about stuffing and hitting on somebody's Mom, and I was hoping for a story to confirm my errant daydream.

[The Thread Killer]

Ad Free Shows Exclusive edition of "Arn": March 29, 2020

"Vader Goes Down"

- Conrad welcomes us to this special exclusive edition of "Arn."

- Conrad says he had asked Arn what notorious or infamous events that had developed any kind of urban legend that Arn had actually witnessed during his Pro Wrestling career. Arn told Conrad that he had been front row center for the legendary incident that took place in WCW between Paul Orndorff and Vader during the fall of 1995.

- Conrad notes that this took place before Vader went to the WWF, and while Arn Anderson was still an active Pro Wrestler and not yet an “agent” working backstage.

- Arn corrects Conrad that he was working as an agent at the time, even though he was still active as a Pro Wrestler.

- Arn puts Paul Orndorff over in a big way.  Arn says Orndorff was one of those guys who basically had it all. He had an outstanding physique but he could also work and cut a great promo.  On top of that, Paul Orndorff had a legitimate athletic background and a reputation as a very tough man. Arn says that as a result of all those things combined, Paul Orndorff was very highly respected by all the guys in the Locker Room in WCW.

- Conrad points out that Paul Orndorff was one of the top names in the Pro Wrestling industry in the mid 80’s when the “Hulkamania” boom began.  Of course, Orndorff was in the Main Event of the very first Wrestlemania, but he also was involved in a lot of iconic moments during the Rock & Wrestling era.  Orndorff had a very successful run against Hulk Hogan in 1986 (culminating in their match in Toronto that while only basically a house show, drew what was then an outdoor attendance record of 74,000 fans. And you know who was there in the 11th row?  That’s right. ME.)

- Conrad states that Paul Orndorff’s time as a legitimate Main Event level wrestler was brought to an end by a serious injury in one of his arms.  Orndorff’s arm had massive nerve damage, so much so that it began to atrophy and he could barely use his one arm.

- Conrad says Paul Orndorff was still wrestling despite his debilitating injury but by this point in Orndorff’s career, he had slowed down and like Arn, was working as an agent backstage in WCW and only wrestling sporadically.

- Arn says that being an “agent” in Pro Wrestling is a very difficult job.  Arn says that the other Pro Wrestlers have to respect the agents and for that to happen, the agent has to have experience and know what they’re talking about.

- Arn says during the course of a work day backstage, the agents are relied on to keep things on schedule.  Arn says that when a TV taping is going on it is very difficult to keep everything on track and timing is essential.  Arn says the agents have to be respected, because the wrestlers have to listen to them about when promos need to be cut, time cues, etc.

- Arn says most active Pro Wrestlers like to get to the building as late as possible and are bad for procrastinating backstage, and somebody needs to push them to get dressed and get ready on time, and do what they have to do. If the agent is not respected, the wrestlers won’t listen to them.

- Arn says that a good agent has to know how to handle themselves and be professional.

- Arn talks about the problem agents have, with one foot in the Office and the other foot in the Locker Room. Arn says that somebody who works for the Office will never be viewed as “one of the boys” but when you do the job of an agent...you have to do both.  Especially if you’re still an active wrestler.

- Arn says that Paul Orndorff was one of the very rare guys who had the trust of the office, but the respect of the boys in the Locker Room at the same time.

- Conrad asks who was in charge of WCW at this time?

- Arn says that Eric Bischoff was in charge at this point, but this was when WCW was still a very relaxed atmosphere and before “things started getting political.”  Arn says at the time of this incident, the Locker Room in WCW was actually pretty harmonious and everybody got along, for the most part.

- Arn says that at this point, WCW was a great place to work...you could go to work, have fun, do your job and go home.

- Arn says WCW was hardly a high pressure atmosphere at this point.  Nitro had not even debuted yet.

- Conrad asks about Vader, what kind of reputation did he have?

- Arn says “working with Leon was...well, you had to fight him, but in a working way.”

- Arn says that Vader did have a reputation of being very “snug” in the ring and that when you worked with him, it could be rough.

- Arn says that at that time in Pro Wrestling, there were a few cardinal rules.  You never dump your opponent on their head, you do your best to avoid marking up their face or knocking out teeth, you always make sure that they land flat on their back, and you never hit them in the balls.  As hard as Vader would hit his opponents, he generally followed those rules.

- Arn says he doesn’t think Vader was one of those guys who was “ornery” and would “potato” guys whether they liked it or not.  Arn says that Vader just got really “amped up” and would hit hard.

- Arn says he worked with Vader many times, and says he got knocked around a lot, but Vader never actually hurt him.

- Arn says he will only treat people they way they treated him, and he will only talk about people based on how they dealt with him, not based on rumors about how they have treated other people, and based on that he really didn’t have any problems with Vader.

- Arn admits Vader’s punches did “waffle” him a few times.

- Arn says that the day of the this incident, Vader showed up late.

- Arn says that as soon as Vader showed up, Paul Orndorff went up to him and asked him to get his gear on right away because he was needed for a shot.

- Arn saw nothing wrong with the way Orndorff approached Vader, Arn says Orndorff was very businesslike.

- Arn says after Orndorff left the Locker Room, Vader sat down and started getting his gear out of his bag.

- Arn says he doesn’t know why, but Vader seemed to be taking quite a long time to get his gear together, get it on and get out in front of the camera like he had been asked.

- Conrad says that this fight happened on August 21, 1995 at the tapings for WCW Saturday Night that was scheduled to air on September 2, 1995.  The tapings were being held at Center Stage in Atlanta.

- At this point, Vader was scheduled to be on Hulk Hogan’s team in War Games, and the angle Vader was needed for was a segment on WCW Saturday Night where Kevin Sullivan (with The Giant) cut a promo saying that Hulk Hogan could never trust Vader, which would bring Vader out.

- Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported on the fight between Orndorff and Vader in the Observer, and said that as a result of the fight, Bischoff started negotiating with Lex Luger to return to WCW to appear on the debut episode of Monday Nitro on September 4.  This would then lead to a match between Luger and Hulk Hogan on September 11, 1995.  Meltzer claims this spot had originally been intended for Vader.

- Conrad says that at the time of the fight, Vader was in the middle of negotiating a new contract with Eric Bischoff, rumored to be for $750,000 a year for three years.

- Arn says that at the time of the fight, nobody knew about that.

- Conrad says the rumor had been that Vader was even scheduled to defeat Hogan for the World Heavyweight Championship on September 11, leading to a couple of big Pay Per View rematches between Hogan and Vader.

- Conrad says Vader was pretty much in a prime spot in WCW at this point.

- Arn wonders if the negotiations were on Vader’s mind at the time of the fight.

- Anyhow, getting back to the actual fight...

- Arn says Vader was pretty much taking his time getting ready, so Paul Orndorff returned to the Locker Room.

- Arn claims that Paul Orndorff came into the room, looked at Vader and looked at his watch.  Arn claims that Orndorff said: “Leon, come on man. Jesus Christ, let’s go!  Get off your fat ass, let’s get out there and get this done!” Arn says that is pretty much word-for-word what Orndorff said.

- Arn said he could see Paul Orndorff was getting very irritated, so as a fellow agent he went to talk to Orndorff and he was going to volunteer to try and talk to Vader and convince him to hurry up.

- Arn says that as soon as Arn got up to talk to Orndorff, he noticed Vader looked really angry that Orndorff had chastised him in front of everybody in the Locker Room.  Arn says that Vader obviously felt disrespected.

- Arn and Paul Orndorff had moved into the hallway at this point.  Arn says Vader came charging out of the Locker Room and started screaming at Orndorff.

- Arn says he was literally in between the two men, because he was standing in the hall talking to Orndorff and Arn had his back to the Locker Room door.  Arn says that when Vader came out of the Locker Room, he was right behind Arn, with Arn positioned in the middle.

- Arn says that he felt like a boxing referee standing between two fighters.

- Arn says that as soon as Vader started shouting at Orndorff, Orndorff started shouting right back at him.

- Arn says that at this point, Vader slapped Paul Orndorff in the side of the head with an open hand, very hard. Arn says the shot to Orndorff “really pickled him.”

- Arn says the hallways backstage at Center Stage are very narrow and so when Vader slapped Orndorff, and sent him back into the wall and really “knocked the piss out of Paul.”

- Arn says that after Paul fell to the ground, Vader stood over top of him and continued shouting at him.

- Arn says “Leon was going into Vader mode and was basically cutting a promo on him.”

- Arn says he intervened and tried to get Vader to back off.

- Arn says Paul Orndorff popped back up and threw a punch at Vader that was so fast, it was a blur.

- Arn says the environment in the hallway was so cramped, that when Orndorff threw the punch his arm literally went over Arn’s shoulder.

- Arn says Orndorff hit Vader right in the chin, with one punch.

- Arn says Vader’s reaction looked like a worked spot during a match...Vader slumped to his knees, and fell flat on his face.

- Arn says at that point, he went: “Hmmm.  We need to give this some thought, here.”

- Conrad bursts out laughing at this statement.

- Arn says that if Paul had been wearing street clothes and cowboy boots, then “we may have witnessed a death, right there.  A murder.”

- Arn says there might have been a problem with nerve damage in Orndorff’s arm...but “there wasn’t nothing wrong with his legs, because he started stomping Leon like a crazy man...right to his head.  The only thing that saved Leon’s life that night was that Paul was wearing flip-flops.”

- Arn says even with bare feet, Orndorff managed to stomp Vader 6-8 times.

- Arn says that at that point, he could tell Paul Orndorff had totally lost it, so he pulled Orndorff off Vader and convinced him to go down the hall.

- Arn says Haku was there, and helped get Orndorff away from the scene.

- Arn says that he helped Vader back into the Locker Room, and Vader looked like hell.  He was bleeding and his eyes were already starting to swell shut.  Arn says: “Leon looked like he’d been dropped off a 10 story building and landed right on his face.”

- Arn says that as soon as Vader regained his senses, he got angry again.

- Arn says that Haku had managed to calm Paul Orndorff down, and Orndorff had actually gone into the office next to the Locker Room and was changing into his gear because he was scheduled to wrestle that night.

- Arn says Vader charged and busted into the office.

- Arn says that Orndorff and Vader basically “locked up” and started fighting again, thrashing around.

- Arn says: “Thank God, Haku was there.  He was the only man in the world who could have broken up that fight.”

- Arn says Haku actually physically separated the two men.

- Arn says he talked Paul Orndorff into just leaving the building before things escalated any worse, and Orndorff listened to him.

- Arn says both men were asked to leave the building.

- Arn says that when TV was over, he went to the Marriot hotel and when he walked in he saw Vader sitting at the bar.  Arn says he didn’t want to do it, but the human thing to do was to go and check on Vader and see if he was okay and if he could do anything for him.

- Arn said that there was an air of celebration in the WCW Locker Room after what happened to Vader. Arn says the enhancement talent were particularly happy, because Vader was known for being extremely rough with enhancement talent, taking liberties and hurting them.

- Arn says the mentality of the boys was: “A bully got his today.”  Arn says people wanted to make Paul Orndorff President.

- Arn says that he decided to go up to talk to Vader in the bar, and that Vader looked like he’d been through a meat grinder.

- Arn says Vader was crying and was remorseful about the incident.

- Arn says he thinks it was starting to dawn on Vader that he was in the middle of negotiating a new contract and had been poised to fight Hulk Hogan on a brand new network TV show, and now he had basically blown millions of dollars in “one fell swoop.”

- Arn says that was the last time he ever saw Vader in WCW.

- Conrad says that he has discussed this situation with Eric Bischoff on an episode of 83 Weeks. (Episode #24: “Vader in WCW”)

- Conrad says that Eric Bischoff had been having a lot of trouble with Vader at the time.

- Conrad says Eric Bischoff claims that Vader was really dragging out his contract negotiations.

- Conrad says at the same time, Eric Bischoff had needed Vader to attend a photo shoot to promote some merchandise.  Conrad says Eric had signed a contract for this promotion, but for some reason Vader kept refusing to attend the photo shoot, and at the time of the fight, Eric Bischoff had told Vader if he did not attend the photo shoot, he would be fired.

- Conrad says that Vader had finally done the photo shoot, the morning of the TV taping.  Conrad says that it was because of the photo shoot that Vader was four hours late in arriving to the TV taping.  Conrad says the problem is, Vader never called and told anybody he was going to be late.

- Conrad says that Eric Bischoff told Vader he was going to be suspended for six months for the fight, without pay.  Conrad says that would have amounted to a $400,000 fine.

- Vader refused to accept the suspension, so Eric Bischoff fired him.

- Conrad says that Turner corporate ended up getting involved with the legal process of firing Vader.

- Arn says that is a big difference from when Bill Watts had been in charge.  Arn says that if Watts had been in charge, his only question would have been “who won the fight?”

- Arn says that the whole fight could have been avoided if Vader had called and said he was going to be late because he was finally doing the photo shoot that Eric Bischoff wanted him to do. That way, Paul Orndorff wouldn’t have been as upset that Vader was late.

- It is also possible that Vader showed up to Center Stage in a bad mood because Eric Bischoff had told him that if he didn’t stop procrastinating and go to the photo shoot, he would be fired.

- Arn says if somebody would have asked him, he would have met Vader at the door and helped facilitate the whole process.

- Arn says WCW was a great place to work at this time, and that there was no need for this to happen.

- Arn says that this is what happens when you have “two guys with balls as big as Egypt who refuse to back down.”

- Conrad says that the legal and official reason Vader was fired was because he was unable to work due to a shoulder injury suffered during his cage match with Hulk Hogan at Bash at the Beach 1995. (This was the same shoulder injury which caused Vader to miss months in the WWF after his official appearance.)

- Conrad says Dave Meltzer speculated that the fight with Paul Orndorff was not mentioned in Vader’s termination notice for liability reasons, since Orndorff had also been at fault.

- Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported that Paul Orndorff was disciplined for unprofessional conduct, but he was not fired.

- Conrad asks why Paul Orndorff was not fired too?

- Arn said that he and Leon White had never had a cross word...but he had to admit that he had witnessed Vader throw his weight around and bully a lot of people behind the scenes.

(Sidenote: Eric Bischoff confirmed this in the aforementioned episode of 83 Weeks dedicated to Vader.  Bischoff says that his biggest issue with Vader is that Vader treated the backstage production stuff and employees very poorly and was constantly bullying people and treating them badly.)

- Arn says he has always hated Locker Room fights, because afterwards the Locker Room ends up being split, and everybody takes a side.  Arn says this is the only Locker Room fight he can remember in his career where everybody took one side.  Everybody supported Paul Orndorff it was universal that everybody thought Vader got what he had coming to him.  Arn speculates that might be why Orndorff was not fired...because it would have been a very unpopular decision and upset the entire Locker Room.

- Arn said this fight made Paul Orndorff into a cult hero in the Locker Room.  Arn says that Paul Orndorff was already very widely respected by all the other Pro Wrestlers, but this just cemented it.

- Arn reiterates that a lot of the enhancement talent loved Paul Orndorff even more after this fight, because it was like he was standing up for them.  Paul Orndorff had a very good reputation with the enhancement talent, as he treated them as equals, never acted like he was better than them, and whenever one of them put him over he would always make a point to go and thank them after the match.  Vader was conversely known for taking liberties with enhancement talent, and treating them like they were nothing backstage.

- Conrad says the legend of this fight seems to grow every year.

- Conrad says it is remarkable that a man with only one good arm, wearing shower shoes, was able to knock out the most brutal 400 pound man, the toughest big man in the industry.

- Arn says not a lot of people know this, but Arn’s own career ending injury was very similar to Paul Orndorff’s injury.  Arn says Orndorff’s injury was to his left arm, and that made things extra difficult because Orndorff was left handed, and he could barely use his left arm.

- Arn says that unbelievably, the knockout punch that Paul Orndorff threw at Vader was with his injured and diminished left arm.

- Arn says that Vader was so strong, that he had pretty much stunned Orndorff with the slap to the side of his head.  Arn reiterates that he was literally standing in between the two men...he was right there.

- Arn says that if Vader had followed up and continued to attack Orndorff, this fight might have had a different story.  Arn says Paul Orndorff was in bad shape for a moment after Vader hit him, that’s why Orndorff went down...he was stunned by the slap from Vader.

- Arn says he was just happy nobody was permanently injured as a result of this fight.

- Arn says there are a lot of tough men in the Pro Wrestling business. Arn says it takes a tough man to put up with the travel, the exercise, getting banged around and beat up when you do your job and all the other demands. Arn says there are a lot of guys in the Locker Room could really hurt you.

- Arn says the toughest guys in the Locker Room are guys like Haku, and The Barbarian...guys who are quiet and just sit there. Arn says the big, loud guys like Vader aren’t always the toughest, even though they might think they are.

- Arn says a guy like The Barbarian could “kill you in a second...and then eat the evidence.”  Conrad finds this comment highly amusing.

- Conrad says that he has been told that Paul Orndorff bore no grudges against Vader after the fight, and did not want him to be fired.  Conrad claims that Orndorff was fine with Vader coming back to work and was willing to work with him, and let bygones be bygones.

- Arn says nobody wanted to see anybody lose their job.

- Arn says he talked to Paul Orndorff about the situation several times. Arn says he and Paul were in a similar situation, both still wrestling but trying to work as agents at the same time.  Arn says he knows Paul Orndorff did not carry a grudge and did not want Vader fired.

- Arn says that when he first started out in the Pro Wrestling business two men took the time to give him advice and help him out.  The first was Ted DiBiase, and the second was Paul Orndorff.

- Arn says that when he was still learning the business, Orndorff pulled him aside and gave him advice about training, promos and how to work. Arn said he would always remember Paul Orndorff for that, because Orndorff had already signed a contract to go to the WWF and had no reason to be nice to a young wrestler. Arn says he has never forgotten the advice Paul Orndorff gave him, or the kindness he showed him.

- Arn says Paul Orndorff actually felt bad after the fight.  Orndorff knew Vader probably needed to be taught a lesson, but it bothered him that Vader lost his job.

- Arn says Pro Wrestlers are a brotherhood and have to take care of each other and look after other.  Arn says that’s how the business was at that point.

- Conrad says it’s sad that Vader is no longer with us. Conrad says many people consider Vader the best “big man” in the history of Pro Wrestling.  Conrad asks if Arn agrees.

- Arn says that Vader should certainly be considered in the conversation...considering what you consider to be a “big man.”

- Arn says his vote for the best big man of all time would be Kane.

- Arn says Vader deserves credit for all the things he could do for a man of his size.  Arn says there were a lot of positives about Vader.

- Arn says there was another side of Vader not everybody saw, and that he could be “a big teddy bear.”

- Arn says “God bless him, I’m sorry he’s no longer with us and I still think about him.”

- Conrad says this is a weird story to go back and look at because the legend has kept growing as time has passed, but there was nobody better to tell this story because Arn was literally right there when it happened.

~End of Interview~

 

[Dav'oh]

6 hours ago, C.S. said:

The documentary is on Hulu now,

If that's You Can't Kill David Arquette, do you agree that he's one of wrestling's best babyfaces? That's what I took out of the film, that and Arquette's undeniable love of this thing of ours. I'd buy a ticket to see David Arquette perform, something I would've slapped myself (or worse) for saying back in the day. He really came across well, for mine.

[The Thread Killer]

I really want to see that documentary at some point.  Once I do, I might actually recap that interview just for @C.S.