The Thread Killer Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/11/2021 at 3:47 PM, C.S. said: Arquette won't get any votes, but it has mine. The documentary is on Hulu now, so watching that and then reading @The Thread Killer's recap sounds like a perfect "double feature" to me. On 1/11/2021 at 11:45 PM, MoS said: Mine as well On 1/12/2021 at 11:21 PM, C.S. said: Yeah, I was referring to You Can't Kill David Arquette. I haven't watched the documentary yet. Should I wait for TTK's recap first so I can do a double feature of sorts? On 1/21/2021 at 11:16 PM, C.S. said: I still want Arquette, but I can't argue with The Plane Ride from Hell being the next recap. So basically just because Good Brothers @C.S. and @MoS asked, I changed my mind and decided to give them what they asked for. Without further introduction... * * * * * Ad Free Shows Exclusive "One on One: A Conversation between Eric Bischoff and David Arquette" April 25, 2020 - Eric Bischoff welcomes us to Ad Free Shows and says we are in for a real treat. Eric introduces a man who he considers a personal friend, a man he has known for quite a while, who has been very successful in the entertainment business, who has once again decided to “dip his toes” into the world of Professional Wrestling and lived to regret it...Mr. David Arquette. - David Arquette says he is very happy to talk to Eric Bischoff. Arquette says he does not regret getting involved in Professional Wrestling, and he does not believe in regrets because you can’t change the past. - Eric says he loves that attitude and he has a similar philosophy, he has had the opportunity to experience things that other people have never had the chance to experience and he is grateful for all of it, the good, the bad and the ugly. - Eric Bischoff says that David Arquette has a new documentary coming out titled “You Can’t Kill David Arquette” and he wants to talk about that, but before they do that he would like to talk about Arquette’s family background and history in Show Business. Eric asks what it was like for David Arquette to grow up in a Show Business family? - David Arquette says it was “interesting...it made for a wild, crazy, dramatic, humorous, very larger than life upbringing.” Arquette says that people who work in Show Business tend to be very imaginative and over the top, and he is still like that himself, in the way he is raising his own kids. - Arquette says that his Great-Grandparents were Vaudevillians and worked in Show Business. - David Arquette’s Grandfather was actually “Charlie Weaver” of radio and early Television fame. Arquette says that his Grandfather had a very successful career as a star on NBC radio from the 1930’s right up until the advent of Television. Once TV made radio comedy pretty much obsolete, his Grandfather retired and opened a Civil War museum. - Arquette tells the story that one night in the late 1950’s, his Grandfather was watching The Tonight Show and the host Jack Paar did an imitation of Charlie Weaver and asked on the air “whatever happened to Charlie Weaver?” His Grandfather ended up calling The Tonight Show, and they had him on as a guest. As a result of that appearance on The Tonight Show, Arquette’s Grandfather ended up having a huge career comeback, where he became a regular guest on The Tonight Show and many of the other TV Talk Shows of the late 50’s and into the 60’s. Charlie Weaver was most famous for a comedy bit he did called “Got A Letter From Momma.” Charlie Weaver ended up becoming a permanent guest on the Game Show “Hollywood Squares.” - Eric says that he remembers seeing Charlie Weaver on TV when Eric was a kid growing up during the 1960’s. Arquette says that his Grandfather was definitely an inspiration to him, and he has a tattoo of his Grandfather. - David Arquette’s father Lewis Arquette was probably most famous for his role on the popular 70’s TV Show “The Waltons” but he worked his entire career aside from that as what Arquette describes as a “journeyman actor” doing bit parts in countless movies and TV shows. Arquette says it was a tough life sometimes growing up, if his Father was between roles there might not always be money. - Eric Bischoff talks about how he has always found it interesting that the general public assumes that if you’re famous, you must automatically be rich...but that is not the case. Just because people recognize you from a TV Show or Movie, that doesn’t mean that you’re wealthy. Eric says that he knows that many actors just like Arquette’s Father had to struggle when they were unable to find any work. - David Arquette says that his Dad would frequently have to take any job he could find, just to pay the bills. For example, he remembers his Dad doing a Safety Video for General Motors, that they would show to their employees to promote their Health and Safety program. Obviously, that is not the kind of job an actor would want to take for artistic reasons, but it was a job. - Eric says that in a way, the life of a journeyman actor is very similar to that of a journeyman Pro Wrestler or a “jobber.” - David Arquette agrees and says he has always found a lot of similarities between Actors and Pro Wrestlers. David says that the way actors have to hustle for work and travel around the country trying to get any small role just to make money to feed their family is exactly the same way many independent wrestlers work as well, and that both jobs are nowhere near as glamorous as they might appear. - Arquette tells a humorous story about when he was a kid. The Arquette family apparently had a rat in their house, and they managed to catch it alive. Arquette’s Father took the rat with him to an audition at Paramount Studios, and when he didn’t get the part he let the rat loose in the studio. - Arquette says that his Father was a Pro Wrestling fan, and introduced him to Pro Wrestling. In fact, Arquette’s father actually did the voice for the cartoon of Jimmy “Superfly” Snuka on the old “Hulk Hogan’s Rock and Wrestling” Saturday Morning Cartoon. - Eric says he couldn’t believe that when he first found out about it. - David Arquette jokes that it is “cultural appropriation” for his Dad, a middle aged white guy to have done the voice for a Fijian Pro Wrestler. - Eric says that maybe this means that Arquette is an honorary Samoan and now he can talk to The Rock about getting one of those Tribal Tattoos. - Eric asks which Pro Wrestlers or matches were the first to stick out in his mind. - David Arquette says that growing up in Southern California, they used to rerun the old black and white Pro Wrestling footage from the Los Angeles territory when they ran the Olympic Auditorium. Arquette says one of his earliest memories was seeing Gorgeous George, although it wasn’t live obviously. - Arquette says as far as the modern product when he was growing up, he has vivid memories of the WWF in the 80’s specifically the rivalry between The Macho Man and George “The Animal” Steele. Arquette says he actually went to a WWF House Show in the 80’s in LA and got to see Hulk Hogan teaming with Andre The Giant, which “blew his mind.” Arquette says being able to see Andre in person has stuck with him, forever. - Arquette says when he was growing up, his friends “grew out” of watching Pro Wrestling, but he never did. Arquette says that luckily, as he got older and kept watching he made new friends who were also interested in watching and going to shows with him. - Arquette also mentions that he was friends with Jason Hervey, which was also great because Jason was tied in with WCW and was able to get him backstage and introduce him to a lot of the wrestlers. - Arquette says after he did “Scream” his acting career really changed. Once you have done a role that successful, you no longer have to go to auditions, scripts will get sent to you and you will automatically be offered roles. Arquette says that after he did Scream, he was offered “Ready to Rumble.” - Arquette says that when he read the script for Ready to Rumble, he saw on the fourth page that The Macho Man was in the script. Arquette called Warner Brothers and said: “Is that the real Macho Man? He’s in the movie? I’ll do it!” - Arquette says that it was amazing to meet Randy Savage, and that he was a very kind man. - Arquette diverts for a minute, and says that one of the things that he always found interesting about Pro Wrestling is that you have to pay close attention, or you won’t understand what is going on...the stories are always changing. Arquette says that he would sometimes not be able to watch wrestling for a while because he’d be away on location shooting a movie, and when he tuned back in, all the storylines would have changed and different people would be working with each other. - Eric says that prior to doing Ready to Rumble, David Arquette was on a career high, due to Scream, Scream 2 and Scream 3, plus he had gotten good notices for his role in the Drew Barrymore film “Never Been Kissed.” Eric wondered if Arquette’s agents, lawyers or friends might have advised him against doing Ready to Rumble, due to Professional Wrestling not being a very respected subject matter for a film? - David Arquette says his friends and peers in the acting business advised him against doing Ready to Rumble, but he wanted to do it anyway, especially since Oliver Platt and Scott Caan had signed up. Arquette says that he and Scott Caan are friends and he wanted a chance to work with his friend. - Arquette diverts for a moment and talks about how Scott Caan is a close friend of his, but when Arquette asked him to appear in his “You Cannot Kill David Arquette” documentary, Caan declined. Scott Caan told David Arquette that it was nothing personal, but Caan just has a policy against appearing in documentaries. Arquette later appeared in a documentary about a famous Tattoo artist called “Mr. Cartoon” in Los Angeles, and discovered that Scott Caan was also in the same documentary...so apparently Scott Caan didn’t have a policy against appearing in documentaries, he just didn’t want to be in a film about Pro Wrestling again, but didn’t want to tell David Arquette that. - Eric says that he and Conrad Thompson had just done an episode of 83 Weeks during which they discussed David Arquette winning the WCW World Heavyweight Championship, because it is the 18 year anniversary of the event. - David Arquette points out that the anniversary date of his World Title win is also his wife’s birthday, so he always remembers the date. - Eric Bischoff says that after Time Warner acquired WCW, the new favorite corporate buzzword in all the management meetings was “synergy.” Eric says that when he was President of WCW, right after the merger he kept getting all sorts of pressure to promote other Time Warner projects in WCW, and that Ready to Rumble was also part of the “synergy.” - Eric says he was actually supposed to be a producer on Ready to Rumble and had been slated to actually act in the film, in the role of “Titus Sinclair” but Eric was fired from WCW in September 1999, so the role went to Joe Pantoliano instead. Eric and David joke that Eric Bischoff missed his big shot to make it in Hollywood due to being unable to appear in Ready to Rumble. - David Arquette says that all joking aside, the whole point of his documentary is that it’s never too late. Arquette says the message he is trying to get out with the movie is that you can always chase your dreams, change your destiny and prove to other people that you can accomplish anything. - Eric Bischoff says that in all sincerity, he got teary-eyed watching the documentary at times because he knows how hard Arquette was trying to make his dream of being a respected Pro Wrestler happen. - David Arquette says he appreciates that, and that he appreciates Eric Bischoff’s friendship. Arquette briefly mentions some other projects they have worked on together outside of Pro Wrestling, including a 3-D animated short film. - Eric Bischoff says that after seeing the documentary, he feels he has seen David Arquette on a level he had never seen before. - David Arquette says that the documentary happened at a time in his life that he was going through a lot of problems, most notably his alcoholism and other addiction issues. Arquette is quick to point out that although he has conquered his addictions, he still smokes pot because “he needs to” and it takes him to “his chill place” and without it he just gets too crazy. (Sidenote: For the record, there is little doubt in my mind that David Arquette was quite high during this interview. He seemed to find pretty much everything funny and was prone to extended fits of giggling, and found things very funny that did not seem to be funny. SO ANNOYING.) - Eric Bischoff says one of the things he was also impressed with during the documentary was how open David Arquette was showing his struggles with addiction and Mental Health issues. Bischoff says that takes a lot of balls. - David Arquette says that in acting and in Pro Wrestling, you have to find what is real. Arquette says documentary films are only compelling if there are truly “cringe worthy” moments in them, so he had to show everything. - Arquette says getting so heavily involved in Pro Wrestling has definitely helped his acting abilities, because there is so much storytelling in Pro Wrestling...and a lot of communicating emotions to a crowd during a match, without saying anything. - Arquette says that he absolutely loves Pro Wrestling but he can’t do it anymore because it hurts him and of the toll it has taken on him physically. Arquette says he wants to stay involved in the Pro Wrestling business though, and would love to become a manager like Bobby “The Brain” Heenan. - David Arquette says he loves how heel managers take pratfalls, but he doesn’t want people to think they are botches that aren’t done deliberately. - Eric Bischoff jokes that if David Arquette transitions into becoming a manager, they can make a sequel to the documentary. - David Arquette says the pandemic has totally screwed up the distribution plans for the film, and that it will not be playing in a lot of theatres and will most likely be sold to streaming services. Arquette says they have not yet secured a distribution deal for Japan, and he hopes when they do he can go there, because he loves Japan and the country’s history when it comes to Professional Wrestling. Arquette says if he could wrestle in Japan, he would do a sequel to the documentary. - Eric Bischoff asks about the circumstances when David Arquette won the WCW World Title. Bischoff pointed out that due to the stipulations of the match, David had actually pinned Eric Bischoff himself to win the World Heavyweight Championship. - Bischoff says that after he was fired from WCW in September 1999, Vince Russo was hired and brought in. However, after a few months Turner Broadcasting was not happy with the job Russo was doing, so Eric Bischoff was hired back for the specific purpose of working with Vince Russo and communicating his creative plans back to the Turner organization. As such, any major angles Russo wanted to do at that time had to technically be approved by Eric Bischoff...so Bischoff says he has been taking shit from the fans and other Pro Wrestlers for years for approving the angle where David Arquette won the World Title. - Eric Bischoff says that for years he had assumed that Vince Russo came up with the idea for David Arquette to win the title, but he just recently found out that Tony Schiavone had been sitting in on creative meetings and he was the one who pitched the idea, and Russo went with it. Bischoff says that Vince Russo has been taking credit for the idea, but he has confirmed it was legitimately Tony’s idea. - Bischoff says the old saying is true: “Success has many Fathers but failure is an orphan” but if he is being honest he must admit that Russo did bring the idea to him for approval and Eric gave the angle his approval. Eric says that he honestly didn’t have a problem with the angle but if he had been involved in the creative, he probably would not have tried to portray David Arquette as a sympathetic babyface. Bischoff says he will defend the decision to put the World Title on Arquette but feels it would have been much more effective if it had been done with Arquette playing the sneaky cheating heel and really played up the most obviously annoying parts of the story...like that the win was a fluke and Arquette didn't "deserve" it. - Eric Bischoff says that it has always been his feeling that David Arquette took a lot of heat from hardcore Pro Wrestling fans for winning the WCW World Heavyweight Championship. - David Arquette says that he did. - Eric Bischoff says that hardcore Pro Wrestling fans can be very hard on the talent, and “they have memories like Elephants...and they don’t forgive anything.” - David Arquette agrees and says that the other thing is that some hardcore Pro Wrestling fans seem to take things very personal and can get very intense. - Arquette says he thinks maybe a lot of hardcore fans didn’t realize that he was also a lifelong Pro Wrestling fan, and maybe they resented him because they thought he was just some actor who came in and participated in the angle thinking the entire sport was a joke. - Arquette says he doesn’t think Pro Wrestling is a joke at all. Arquette says that he actually enjoys reading about Pro Wrestling and learning about the sport. Arquette says that he really enjoyed Eric Bischoff’s book and lists Jim Ross’s books as helping him learn about the backstage environment as well. - Arquette admits he was naive about how the fans would take his World Title win. Arquette says he thought the fans would like it, because he is a fan just like they are and he hoped the fans would almost see it as if one of their own won the World Title. - Arquette says when the idea was presented to him, he was very excited and thought it would be fun. - Arquette says he was also not prepared for the reaction he got backstage either. He admits that he never thought about how many of the other Pro Wrestlers had worked hard their entire careers and had never been given the same chance that David Arquette just walked in and was handed simply because he was famous. - Arquette tells a story about how he was backstage after winning the World Title, he walked up to Booker T and asked him casually: “Hey, how many times have you been World Champion?” and claims Booker just gave him a look and said: “None.” Arquette says that really hit him. - David Arquette says Vince Russo seemed totally oblivious to the idea that any of the Pro Wrestlers might have a problem with him winning the World Title. - Arquette says the reaction really hurt him and that: “this thing I loved was now hurting me.” - Arquette says the decision still haunts him to this day. He says he was recently reading the newspaper, and read an article saying that the International House of Pancakes was thinking of changing their name to the International House of Burgers, so IHOP would now be IHOB. Arquette says the newspaper article claimed: “IHOP changing their name would be the worst idea since David Arquette became World Heavyweight Champion” and it really shocked him how many people were upset about it, and how widespread the disdain was, and that is still going on all this time later. - David Arquette says over the past 18 years he has been the butt of a lot of jokes and he is used as the “low bar” when fans are talking about the worst things to ever happen in Pro Wrestling. -Arquette says the reaction backstage was so negative, and he was so tired of all the other talent thinking he was a “pussy” that he seriously considered picking a fight with Tank Abbott to prove he is a man. Arquette says the problem was, he got along great with Tank Abbott and he was really a nice guy so he didn’t want to pick a fight with him. - Eric asks how David Arquette came up with the idea for this documentary. - David Arquette says he is close friends with Dave Lagana, and it was actually Lagana who gave him the idea, years ago. Arquette says he has a writer friend named Ben Joseph, who is a writer for The Simpsons, and when Arquette told Joseph Lagana’s idea, Joseph really encouraged him to go for it. - Arquette talks about how he had a heart attack a few years ago, and how when he was rushed to the hospital and thought he was going to die, he thought about how he had tried to be a good person and he knew his family loved him. Arquette says he then started thinking about what other people would say about him if he died, and he said that believe it or not, he was there in the hospital having a heart attack and one of the thoughts which came to his mind was “I bet Pro Wrestling fans will be happy if I die...they really hate me.” Arquette says that is when he fully realized how much the whole situation really bothered him and he had really been holding onto the situation. - Arquette says he saw the episode of “Dark Side of the Ring” about the Brawl for All. Arquette says that he agrees the idea was stupid, but if he could have had a chance to participate in the that event, maybe Pro Wrestling fans would have respected him more for at least being tough. - Arquette says he needed serious surgery to correct his heart problem, and he had two stents inserted in his heart. He was also told that he needed to get into better physical condition, in order to avoid any further cardiac issues. - Eric Bischoff says he remembers a couple of years ago that David Arquette called him and told him about the idea for the documentary, and Bischoff agreed to be interviewed for the film. - Eric talks about a scene in the film where David gets into a scuffle with Brian Knobbs. Eric says he is friends with a writer named Scott Silver, who wrote the movies “Joker” and “8 Mile.” Eric claims after he saw the movie, his friend Scott Silver called him and asked if the incident between Arquette and Knobbs was staged, because it looked like it was. Eric says: “no...it was real.” - David Arquette says that there are a lot of scenes in the movie that look like that, but he guarantees they are real. - Eric Bischoff says the documentary takes the viewers on a journey and shows the different levels of the Pro Wrestling industry and shows the fans things they wouldn’t normally get to see. Eric says the scenes in Mexico are a good example of that. - David Arquette says that this documentary is his “love letter” to Pro Wrestling and Pro Wrestling fans. - Arquette says that the Pro Wrestling industry has changed in the time since he was World Champion, and that thanks to guys like Daniel Bryan, fans are more willing to accept smaller guys as legitimate Pro Wrestlers. - Arquette says that once he got in shape, he was confident that he had a build which was better than most novice Pro Wrestlers because he is a bit beefier. Arquette says he usually does his own stunts, so he thinks that helped him as well. Arquette says: “I’m more Pro Wrestler than you might think.” - Arquette talks about how he broke three ribs in Mexico, but then went on to work a bunch of independent shows in the United States, and his ribs still hurt. - Arquette says he actually did a few training sessions with Johnny Rodz and he got pretty hurt doing that. - Arquette says his favorite part of the whole process is getting to know all the other Pro Wrestlers in the business. - Arquette praises Eric Bischoff for his support with the documentary. - Arquette says that he hopes the documentary will reach a lot of people who have never watched Pro Wrestling and don’t know what it is all about. - Arquette says he was concerned about showing too much of what goes on behind the scenes, so he would always get permission from everybody backstage before filming. - Eric Bischoff says David Arquette underwent a pretty impressive physical transformation during the documentary and asked about how that was. - David Arquette says that he is used to undergoing big physical transformations for acting roles. Arquette says for example, he once had to play a prisoner in a concentration camp, so he had to lose a ton of weight so he would be all bony looking. - Arquette talks about the intensive training regimen he underwent, eliminating carbs from his diet, increasing his water intake and taking all sorts of MMA training all to lose weight, get in shape and help him with his Pro Wrestling. - Arquette says it’s like the training the actors in the Marvel movies have had to do for the Superhero Movies. - Eric Bischoff praises the actual look of the film, the music and the choreography. He says it was very professionally done and looked great. - Bischoff says he loved how the documentary came full circle and told a redemption story. - Bischoff asks which moment during the film did he feel the whole process was really worth it? - David Arquette talks about how a hardcore fan came up to him and told him that he didn’t have anything to prove anymore and that he shouldn’t be putting himself through all this, and Arquette says that was really nice because that is kind of what he wanted all along...acceptance from the fans. - Arquette says the main thing that made him feel good is that he was finally accepted by “the boys” in the Locker Room. Arquette compares being shunned in the Pro Wrestling Locker Room to being left out on the first day of school, and says that really bothered him more than he had even admitted to himself. Arquette says he always felt like an outcast in the Pro Wrestling Locker Room. - Arquette says he respects Pro Wrestling and he went through a lot for it. - Arquette says the main theme of the documentary is about “self worth” and that is what it ended up meaning to him. - Arquette says that when he was in WCW the first time, he hung out with Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan and Sting and he went drinking and partied with them, but now he realizes he was accepted only as a fellow celebrity. Arquette says this time is different, because he is accepted as being “one of the boys” and that is what he really wanted. - David Arquette jokes about how Ric Flair was nice enough to be in the documentary, but he Flair still said some things about him that weren’t so nice. - Eric Bischoff says he got teary-eyed when he watched the final training scene in Mexico with the Luchadores because of a special honor they paid him. (Bischoff says he won’t say what because he doesn’t want to spoil the scene.) - David Arquette puts over what a big deal Lucha Libre is in Mexico from a cultural standpoint. - Arquette says a little thing like fans patting him on the back and giving him high fives might seem like a small thing but it meant so much to him. - Arquette says it was so much hard work, it was hard physically and hard travel...but it was worth it. - Eric Bischoff says it’s especially hard when you get your jugular vein cut. - David Arquette says he didn’t realize how much “death matches” had evolved from just chairs and stuff, and now there are florescent light tubes. But he did it because he has a high tolerance for pain. - Arquette says the injury to his neck was his fault, because he didn’t do what was planned during the spot, he grabbed Nick Gage’s legs when he shouldn’t have, and turned when he was taking the bump so he landed wrong. Arquette says if he had stuck to the plan and done the spot the way it was intended, that never would have happened. - Arquette says he has no problem with Nick Gage, and he appreciates him. - Eric Bischoff asks how people can see the documentary. - David Arquette says he hopes it will be available on all platforms as of September 2020. - Eric Bischoff spends the next couple of minutes praising David Arquette as a person and praising the documentary, and then David Arquette returns the favor and spends a couple of minutes talking about how great Eric Bischoff is, how much he has done for his career and what a great friend he is. - Eric Bischoff ends the interview by strongly recommending everybody see “You Cannot Kill David Arquette.” ~End of Interview~ And now, because absolutely nobody asked... “You Cannot Kill David Arquette” WARNING: SPOILERS! After listening to the interview recapped above, I wanted to check out the documentary which was the main topic of the interview. I had seen a couple of people praising it online, so I wanted to see for myself. Upon looking into it, I discovered the documentary had been added to Netflix Canada a couple of weeks ago. (I have no idea if it is available in the United States, because Netflix Canada and the Netflix in the USA have totally separate film libraries.) “You Cannot Kill David Arquette” is a decent documentary. I can honestly say that the movie is fairly entertaining. It’s about 90 minutes long, and I was never bored. It held my interest. However, there are a couple of issues with the film, in my opinion. First and foremost, it seemed pretty obvious to me that this documentary has a bit of a credibility problem. There are quite a few scenes in this film that appear to be staged...and an argument can be made that the entire premise of the movie is structured in such a way to allow a prearranged narrative to be laid out. I know this sounds hilarious when discussing a documentary about Pro Wrestling, but there are some credibility issues with this movie. It’s presented as a supposedly legitimate documentary...and I don’t buy it. The premise is pretty simple. It is pretty much as described in the interview above with Eric Bischoff. David Arquette was at one point a successful actor with a promising career and some decent long term prospects. Through a combination of bad career choices, addiction problems and mental health challenges, he has fallen on hard times. They do the expected dive into Arquette’s family history with interesting interviews with his family members and lots of clips of his film career and different talk show appearances. We see him at home with his family. I have no issue with that set up, and it seems to be fairly accurate. What is sort of suggested (although not said outright) is that part of the reason Arquette has faded into obscurity is due to his fascination with Professional Wrestling. We see an interview with Arquette’s ex-wife Courtney Cox where she discuses how she was embarrassed by the way he behaved when he attended live Pro Wrestling events, and especially how he acted when he was involved in the storyline in WCW 18 years ago. Arquette talks about how Pro Wrestling fans got on his case for winning the World Title, and we see a bunch of clips of people trashing him on YouTube, and other interviews with people bemoaning the whole situation. Arquette admits he is an alcoholic and is struggling with depression and anxiety. The first fishy scene is when he goes into the hospital for an experimental treatment involving a ketamine injection to treat his depression. The whole scene seemed really staged to me, and I have doubts about any credible doctor who would allow such a treatment to be filmed. Not to mention, Arquette’s reaction to the treatment is quite honestly more than a little hammy, and not terribly convincing...but maybe that’s just my take. Now that he’s been treated for his anxiety and depression, Arquette decides to attend a Pro Wrestling fanfest. He claims this is the first time he has been invited to such an event, and he excitedly goes into his Storage Locker and pulls out an old Halloween costume or something, which appears to be some sort of Wizard’s cape or something. He then goes to visit a professional photographer, and has a stack of pictures taken which he will bring with him to the autograph signing. The whole photo shoot scene is also really over the top and downright goofy. Arquette claimed in the interview that he basically wants to be respected and taken seriously by the Pro Wrestling business...but in this scene (and others) he acts in a way that pretty much guarantees that he won’t be taken seriously by anybody. He basically prances around in his underwear and acts like a total jackass...which is fine, but it doesn’t seem to lend much credence to the whole “I want respect” argument he has been making. So we’re off to the autograph show, and it ends up being like a scene out of Spinal Tap, or maybe “The Wrestler.” Nobody wants to talk to David Arquette. Nobody wants his autograph. He poses for some pictures with the other Pro Wrestlers at the show, but basically the whole thing is a washout. Once again, it’s possible this scene is documented as it actually happened...but it seemed to me to be very staged. After the autograph signing, Arquette goes into a bar and tries to talk to some of the wrestlers who were there. He walks up to Brian Knobbs, who gets in Arquette’s face and a shoving match ensues. We are supposed to believe that Knobbs doesn’t like Arquette because he “doesn’t respect the business.” David Arquette is very upset at this reception, and leaves. Based on this incident, David Arquette decides he is going to train to become a Pro Wrestler. He is going to earn the respect of the fans and “the boys.” He informs his wife and kids. Arquette’s wife and his teenage daughter are not enthused about the idea. Once again, the whole autograph signing and shoving match in the bar come across to me as highly suspect. I’m not an idiot, I know practically all documentaries and reality shows involve a lot of manufactured scenarios or pre-planned situations, but to me this all seemed to be blatantly so. If you’re going to stage something, you need to do it in a convincing manner. I just didn’t buy this. So David Arquette meets up with a backyard wrestler and works a backyard show in front of literally nobody but the other backyard wrestlers. The ring breaks during the match, and comedy ensues of course. Not to mention, the cast of characters who are in attendance at this backyard show are basically a bunch of fat, out of shape and ridiculous looking oddballs, who take themselves totally seriously and are spouting every Pro Wrestling industry cliche you can imagine. It was during this scene that I fully understood...this documentary is not really intended for Pro Wrestling fans. This is for people who don’t watch Pro Wrestling. It is intended to make David Arquette a sympathetic character, and it plays portrays Pro Wrestlers and Pro Wrestling fans as fodder for comedy. Which is fine, but once again...it kind of flies in the face of Arquette’s whole “I want respect” credo. David Arquette starts training with some guy I have never seen or heard of before, and starts learning to do bumps in a “wrestling school” in a dilapidated barn. Once again, the trainer is super serious about this whole deal and gravely gives an interview explaining how serious this training is, and how he is really going to put Arquette through the paces. Neither the trainer or any of the other students look like they have ever seen the inside of a gym before, which I assume is intended to enforce the fact that Arquette is starting his journey on the proverbial bottom rung of the Pro Wrestling ladder. Next up, David Arquette heads to Mexico. He meets up with Diamond Dallas Page who of course happens to be doing DDP Yoga and wearing DDP Yoga gear and says he will help train...whereupon they start doing...surprise...DDP Yoga! DDP’s speech to David Arquette during this scene is also very contrived and hammy. After his training with DDP, Arquette hooks up with a trio of very chubby luchadores, and trains in what appears to either be a basement or maybe an abandoned warehouse. He wrestles in a trios match in front of maybe 50 fans, if that. He executes a couple of fairly basic moves, and is rewarded by being given his very own lucha mask, which he takes as a great honor. This is the scene Eric Bischoff referred to in the interview. There is a really weird scene where Arquette hangs out on a street corner in the middle of a busy intersection somewhere in Mexico. While the motorists are waiting for the lights to change, Arquette and his chubby lucha pals execute little staged lucha fights, in the middle of the street...and then beg for change. Of course, David Arquette doesn’t earn any money. David Arquette returns home, sets up a wrestling ring in his backyard and commits to his training. Arquette is seen training with Peter Avalon, and as time passes he clearly gets into better and better physical condition. He goes from being kind of doughy looking to being in pretty decent shape. Most notably, he starts working at “Championship Wrestling from Hollywood.” He works an angle with a guy from CWH whose name I forget. He starts giving interviews about his new career on shows like Wendy Williams and Ellen, and TMZ picks up on the story and airs a piece about him. Arquette’s career on the independent scene starts to pick up some steam. His wife and daughter come and watch him on Championship Wrestling from Hollywood, and his daughter supposedly enjoys herself. To me, these are the best scenes in the movie, because they come across as the least staged and fake parts. Arquette really does train with Peter Avalon. He really does get into much better shape, although I could have lived without the scenes of him trying to use spray tan with a sock hanging over his dick. That scene, like many others just comes across as obviously intended to get laughs...it doesn’t seem natural, it just seems like cheap and not really effective comedy. Throughout this whole journey, we see a couple of interviews with David Arquette’s wife. She talks about how she used to work for Entertainment Tonight, but now she has gotten into film producing. She gravely informs us she is very worried about her husband’s health and well being. She even implies that David becoming a Pro Wrestler might cost him their marriage. And then during the end credits...she is listed as a producer for the documentary...because if your husband is doing something which could end your marriage, the natural thing to do is produce it. Finally, we build up to a match between David Arquette and Nick Gage. The match goes fairly well, until Nick Gage introduces florescent light tubes into the proceedings. A spot gets botched, and glass gets driven into the neck of David Arquette, Despite the injury, Arquette bravely finishes the match, but then his friend Luke Perry rushes him to the hospital. This is pretty much the biggest scene in the movie. It made the news all over the world when it happened. We see a montage of media coverage of the incident, including an audio clip of Jim Cornette having the expected reaction. I am of two minds about this scene. It certainly looked real. Arquette has a large scar on the side of his neck now. The reason I have doubts about the whole thing is because the entire documentary up to this point has seemed to contrived and staged...and let’s be honest...the publicity generated by this incident was pretty much the whole selling point of the documentary. If this injury was actually legitimate, then all I’ll say is that it ended up being the best and most helpful life threatening injury in Pro Wrestling history. In the end, I’ll say this...I am willing to believe that something went wrong in the match between David Arquette and Nick Gage, but if it turns out that the whole thing was a work, I wouldn’t be one little bit surprised. After the injury, David Arquette falls back into depression and starts drinking again. He spends his time sitting alone in the dark, watching old Macho Man matches. He talks (not for the first time) about how beautiful Miss Elizabeth is, and how much she looks like his wife. They zoom in and focus on a picture of Elizabeth wearing a red dress. But his wife isn’t there...she has gone away for work. But now a chance for redemption arrives. It is the one year anniversary of the fanfest that started this whole journey, the place where nobody wanted to talk to David Arquette or get his autograph. The place where Brian Knobbs shoved him and told him he wasn’t one of the boys. Except this year...they want David Arquette to come back, and they want him to fight Ken Anderson. Anderson of course is willing to cut a scathing promo talking about how David Arquette doesn’t respect the business and doesn’t belong in Pro Wrestling, and blah blah blah. David Arquette starts training again and we see a montage worthy of one of the Rocky movies. He lifts weights, he runs, he spars. And then the day arrives...but wait! Here’s David Arquette’s wife, and she’s dressed just like Miss Elizabeth, in a red dress, no less! Arquette wrestles Ken Anderson in a heavily edited match, and we see him executing a bunch of fairly basic Pro Wrestling moves. And after the match, the crowd embraces him and cheers for him. And more importantly...Arquette heads back to the dressing room where he is accepted and hugged by “the boys” including Brian Knobbs. We’ve now come full circle. It’s all perfect. And like I said before...it comes off as totally unbelievable and contrived. I assume this documentary is intended to impress people who don’t really know anything about Pro Wrestling. Along the way, it feeds pretty much every negative cliche about Pro Wrestling and Pro Wrestling fans. The majority of the fans shown and interviewed in this documentary are fat, pathetic looking losers. One of them happily admits that aside from being a Pro Wrestling fan, he really doesn’t have a life. Granted...a lot of those cliches are cliches for a reason. Lord knows, I’ve been to a couple of Ring of Honor shows which pretty much confirm each and every one of those stereotypes. But my issue is that if this documentary really is intended to be David Arquette’s “love letter” to Pro Wrestling, then I have to wonder why he was so happy to lean into every negative stereotype about the sport, and it’s fans? Maybe he wanted revenge for all the shit die hard fans have given him over the years...who knows. Here’s the thing... Do I believe David Arquette’s career has hit the skids? Yes. Do I think he has a substance abuse problem and mental health issues? Yes. Do I believe David Arquette is a Pro Wrestling fan? Absolutely. Do I think David Arquette took a ton of shit from hardcore fans and even a lot of Pro Wrestlers because he won the WCW World Heavyweight Championship? And do I believe that upset him? Yes, and yes. After that...your mileage may vary. His willingness to train to be a Pro Wrestler, his journey from the backyard scene to Mexico to Championship Wrestling from Hollywood, to a Death Match with Nick Gage...that was all compelling on it’s own. I don’t think the story needed to be so obviously structured and laid out in advance with a contrived narrative. Of course, in the end I guess that’s fitting because at it’s base, that’s what Pro Wrestling itself is. If you read other reviews of this documentary, it seems like I am not the only person who thought a lot of the stuff that happened in this film was a little too perfect. But who cares, I guess. It’s Pro Wrestling, so if you approach watching this documentary as if you’re watching a Pro Wrestling match, you’ll probably enjoy it. You just have to be willing to suspend disbelief. It’s like any good Pro Wrestling match. Entertaining...as long as you don’t think about it too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I'm far behind as things have been crazy lately, but thanks for the Herd interview. It's interesting. Our understanding of WCW is like a blind man touching an element. At first, we just have the text, what we see. Then we have Meltzer/Keller/Beverly and the sheets. Then we have the early RF shoots from wrestlers. Eventually, we get books from people like Ross and Flair as well. We got the later era shoots like the long Flair one. Then we finally get things like Bischoff's podcast. Each time, it paints in the picture a little more, contextualizes things, gives us different perspectives, different things we can choose to believe. The elephant starts to take more and more shape as it goes. That's exactly what we got here. It gave us reasoning for things we took for granted before, gave us a counterpoint and some emotional underpinning to someone who wasn't a person so much as a caricature previously. We believe what we believe and toss aside what we don't, but it brings us closer to a meaningful truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 This is a fucking epic recap, Dave. More effusive praises and specific reactions to follow soon, but just know that this is fucking amazing. TTK is the internet wrestling poster of the year already, and we are not even done with January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmo Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 14 hours ago, Matt D said: I'm far behind as things have been crazy lately, but thanks for the Herd interview. It's interesting. Our understanding of WCW is like a blind man touching an element. At first, we just have the text, what we see. Then we have Meltzer/Keller/Beverly and the sheets. Then we have the early RF shoots from wrestlers. Eventually, we get books from people like Ross and Flair as well. We got the later era shoots like the long Flair one. Then we finally get things like Bischoff's podcast. Each time, it paints in the picture a little more, contextualizes things, gives us different perspectives, different things we can choose to believe. The elephant starts to take more and more shape as it goes. That's exactly what we got here. It gave us reasoning for things we took for granted before, gave us a counterpoint and some emotional underpinning to someone who wasn't a person so much as a caricature previously. We believe what we believe and toss aside what we don't, but it brings us closer to a meaningful truth. I think this can be said for a lot Wrestling history. Ron Fuller's take on the Atlanta war almost flips the whole thing on it's head. Now while's its colored through Ron's eyes most of what he explains makes sense is logical. Short Verison- Gunkel and Buddy have a disagreement about moving GCW TV to TBS, a small UHF station at the time, from the local VHF network affiliate. Gunkel is against it but Fuller is able to get Paul Jones the promoter on his side. Ray Gunkel is PO'ed and starts to rebel here. He books himself back on the cards and tried to get a shooter in to rough up Buddy (which didn't work as he was also a shooter). Realizing what was going down Buddy swap his shares in GCW with his uncle Lester Welch's shares in Florida. Gunkel is still po'ed and basically starts signing wrestlers on the side for a rebel promotion. This briefly stopped when he dies but Ann instead actually continues his wishes and forms All South trying to get Ron to go along. The story picks up from there but it really adds a whole new dimension to what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 First of all, @The Thread Killer, you have no idea how excited I was to see myself tagged because you had reviewed the Arquette interview and documentary. Because of that, I made it a top priority to watch You Cannot Kill David Arquette last night and push aside whatever else I was going to watch originally. After the movie was over, I grabbed my tablet and read your entire recap before bed (well, I ended up watching the Pat Patterson doc too, and then I slept). Now I'm here in the light of day to respond to your thoughts, so here goes... 19 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: I discovered the documentary had been added to Netflix Canada a couple of weeks ago. (I have no idea if it is available in the United States, because Netflix Canada and the Netflix in the USA have totally separate film libraries.) It's on Hulu in the U.S. Quote First and foremost, it seemed pretty obvious to me that this documentary has a bit of a credibility problem. There are quite a few scenes in this film that appear to be staged...and an argument can be made that the entire premise of the movie is structured in such a way to allow a prearranged narrative to be laid out. I know this sounds hilarious when discussing a documentary about Pro Wrestling, but there are some credibility issues with this movie. It’s presented as a supposedly legitimate documentary...and I don’t buy it. I had some of the same issues, starting with the bullshit Ken Anderson scene at the beginning. But I later realized that was a "wrestling promo" of some kind, so I was able to excuse it that way. Quote They do the expected dive into Arquette’s family history with interesting interviews with his family members I was surprised to see Patricia Arquette in this. I realize they're family, but she's a recent Oscar winner and her career is doing fairly well. It was also cool seeing Rosanna Arquette, and there was a nice nod to their late sister Alexis Arquette through her art. Quote What is sort of suggested (although not said outright) is that part of the reason Arquette has faded into obscurity is due to his fascination with Professional Wrestling. I'm pretty sure it's more than suggested - I remember wrestling being outright blamed for Arquette's supposed career woes in Hollywood. I think that's bullshit and completely ridiculous, but whatever, it gives the story depicted in this doc some stakes, so okay, I'll roll with it... Quote The first fishy scene is when he goes into the hospital for an experimental treatment involving a ketamine injection to treat his depression. The whole scene seemed really staged to me, and I have doubts about any credible doctor who would allow such a treatment to be filmed. Not to mention, Arquette’s reaction to the treatment is quite honestly more than a little hammy, and not terribly convincing...but maybe that’s just my take. I found this very suspect myself. Quote The whole photo shoot scene is also really over the top and downright goofy. Arquette claimed in the interview that he basically wants to be respected and taken seriously by the Pro Wrestling business...but in this scene (and others) he acts in a way that pretty much guarantees that he won’t be taken seriously by anybody. He basically prances around in his underwear and acts like a total jackass...which is fine, but it doesn’t seem to lend much credence to the whole “I want respect” argument he has been making. Agreed. I can only assume this is meant to demonstrate how little Arquette truly understands the pro wrestling world, and to provide a nice contrast to what we see later on, of him looking buff and wearing professional costumes and tights. Quote So we’re off to the autograph show, and it ends up being like a scene out of Spinal Tap, or maybe “The Wrestler.” Nobody wants to talk to David Arquette. Nobody wants his autograph. He poses for some pictures with the other Pro Wrestlers at the show, but basically the whole thing is a washout. Once again, it’s possible this scene is documented as it actually happened...but it seemed to me to be very staged. I'd be first in line to see Arquette, but I can kind of believe that wrestling fans at a wrestling convention would want to meet wrestlers instead. Of course, I would not be even remotely surprised if this ends up being BS to further the story the documentary is telling of Arquette not being accepted as a legitimate wrestler. Quote After the autograph signing, Arquette goes into a bar and tries to talk to some of the wrestlers who were there. He walks up to Brian Knobbs, who gets in Arquette’s face and a shoving match ensues. We are supposed to believe that Knobbs doesn’t like Arquette because he “doesn’t respect the business.” David Arquette is very upset at this reception, and leaves. This came across as total BS to me, or at least a case of the cameraman and editor creating a situation out of thin air that never actually happened by shaking the camera around and including other similar effects to convey a sense of chaos. Quote So David Arquette meets up with a backyard wrestler and works a backyard show in front of literally nobody but the other backyard wrestlers. The ring breaks during the match, and comedy ensues of course. Not to mention, the cast of characters who are in attendance at this backyard show are basically a bunch of fat, out of shape and ridiculous looking oddballs, who take themselves totally seriously and are spouting every Pro Wrestling industry cliche you can imagine. I found this scene very bizarre and felt very angry that Arquette was basically taken advantage of. Who cares if Arquette excelled in this scenario or impressed these idiots? Backyard wrestling is not legitimate, and while these "wrestlers" may be passionate about their "craft," I don't consider them actual wrestlers and won't until they go to a legitimate training school. Apparently, Arquette came to the same conclusion... Quote David Arquette starts training with some guy I have never seen or heard of before, and starts learning to do bumps in a “wrestling school” in a dilapidated barn. Once again, the trainer is super serious about this whole deal and gravely gives an interview explaining how serious this training is, and how he is really going to put Arquette through the paces. Neither the trainer or any of the other students look like they have ever seen the inside of a gym before, which I assume is intended to enforce the fact that Arquette is starting his journey on the proverbial bottom rung of the Pro Wrestling ladder. I concur. Most wrestling schools are shitholes in garages with bad rings, and this scene conveyed that perfectly. Yes, I think the documentary is taking some creative liberties, but in this instance, it's doing so to reveal greater truths about wrestling. Quote Next up, David Arquette heads to Mexico. He meets up with Diamond Dallas Page who of course happens to be doing DDP Yoga and wearing DDP Yoga gear and says he will help train...whereupon they start doing...surprise...DDP Yoga! DDP’s speech to David Arquette during this scene is also very contrived and hammy. It's DDP. I can 100% buy all of this being exactly the same without cameras present, lol. Quote After his training with DDP, Arquette hooks up with a trio of very chubby luchadores, and trains in what appears to either be a basement or maybe an abandoned warehouse. He wrestles in a trios match in front of maybe 50 fans, if that. He executes a couple of fairly basic moves, and is rewarded by being given his very own lucha mask, which he takes as a great honor. This is the scene Eric Bischoff referred to in the interview. There is a really weird scene where Arquette hangs out on a street corner in the middle of a busy intersection somewhere in Mexico. While the motorists are waiting for the lights to change, Arquette and his chubby lucha pals execute little staged lucha fights, in the middle of the street...and then beg for change. Of course, David Arquette doesn’t earn any money. I loved these scenes. BS? Maybe. But also in service of revealing a greater truth IMO. Quote Arquette is seen training with Peter Avalon... I had no idea that was Peter Avalon. Was his look completely different or was I just tired? Quote ...and as time passes he clearly gets into better and better physical condition. He goes from being kind of doughy looking to being in pretty decent shape. Do you think he was aided by any "enhancements?" His look certainly wasn't steroidal in nature, but as we've seen with even guys like Jamie Noble getting popped, you don't necessarily have to look like Ultimate Warrior to be on the juice. Quote Most notably, he starts working at “Championship Wrestling from Hollywood.” He works an angle with a guy from CWH whose name I forget. RJ City Quote I could have lived without the scenes of him trying to use spray tan with a sock hanging over his dick. You and me both. I could've also done without the scene involving serial rapist Joseph Meehan (Joey Ryan), which added nothing to the movie and could've (and should've) easily been cut. The credits list a bunch of people we never actually saw in the movie - Bully Ray, etc. - so I'm wondering how much was left on the cutting room floor. Quote Throughout this whole journey, we see a couple of interviews with David Arquette’s wife. She talks about how she used to work for Entertainment Tonight, but now she has gotten into film producing. She gravely informs us she is very worried about her husband’s health and well being. She even implies that David becoming a Pro Wrestler might cost him their marriage. And then during the end credits...she is listed as a producer for the documentary...because if your husband is doing something which could end your marriage, the natural thing to do is produce it. Well... Better to be able to keep an eye on the situation from the inside looking out rather than the outside looking in. But yeah, I mean, this is probably more BS in service of revealing a greater truth, as wrestling does tend to destroy marriages (Flair, who showed up at the beginning, is a testament to that). Quote Finally, we build up to a match between David Arquette and Nick Gage. The match goes fairly well, until Nick Gage introduces florescent light tubes into the proceedings. A spot gets botched, and glass gets driven into the neck of David Arquette, Despite the injury, Arquette bravely finishes the match, but then his friend Luke Perry rushes him to the hospital. I didn't realize that was Luke Perry at first - I legitimately thought it was Vince Russo - which makes me wonder if this was an early sign of Perry's health issues that everyone missed. BTW, will this end up being Luke Perry's final film? Quote I am of two minds about this scene. It certainly looked real. Arquette has a large scar on the side of his neck now. The reason I have doubts about the whole thing is because the entire documentary up to this point has seemed to contrived and staged...and let’s be honest...the publicity generated by this incident was pretty much the whole selling point of the documentary. If this injury was actually legitimate, then all I’ll say is that it ended up being the best and most helpful life threatening injury in Pro Wrestling history. In the end, I’ll say this...I am willing to believe that something went wrong in the match between David Arquette and Nick Gage, but if it turns out that the whole thing was a work, I wouldn’t be one little bit surprised. I'm not quite as cynical as you about this one. 1. Who the fuck is Nick Gage? An indie guy nobody has ever heard of. 2. "Selling point of the documentary"??? Really?! Again, see #1. 3. Sure, it made for a dramatic scene in the movie and exposed another great truth about wrestling, but let's not kid ourselves here - even without that match and scene, everyone who would be interested in seeing a movie like this would still see it. Quote And then the day arrives...but wait! Here’s David Arquette’s wife, and she’s dressed just like Miss Elizabeth, in a red dress, no less! Arquette wrestles Ken Anderson in a heavily edited match, and we see him executing a bunch of fairly basic Pro Wrestling moves. And after the match, the crowd embraces him and cheers for him. And more importantly...Arquette heads back to the dressing room where he is accepted and hugged by “the boys” including Brian Knobbs. We’ve now come full circle. It’s all perfect. And like I said before...it comes off as totally unbelievable and contrived. Sure, but let's be honest...that's every documentary or reality show ever, because these things are really created and structured in the editing room. Quote Along the way, it feeds pretty much every negative cliche about Pro Wrestling and Pro Wrestling fans. The majority of the fans shown and interviewed in this documentary are fat, pathetic looking losers. One of them happily admits that aside from being a Pro Wrestling fan, he really doesn’t have a life. Granted...a lot of those cliches are cliches for a reason. Lord knows, I’ve been to a couple of Ring of Honor shows which pretty much confirm each and every one of those stereotypes. But my issue is that if this documentary really is intended to be David Arquette’s “love letter” to Pro Wrestling, then I have to wonder why he was so happy to lean into every negative stereotype about the sport, and it’s fans? Maybe he wanted revenge for all the shit die hard fans have given him over the years...who knows. To be honest, I think you've been spoiled by the intelligent and articulate discourse here on PWO. I don't think the movie was necessarily accentuating stereotypes as much as revealing the facts. Most rasslin' fans really are like this - especially at indie shows and conventions. Quote I don’t think the story needed to be so obviously structured and laid out in advance with a contrived narrative. Of course, in the end I guess that’s fitting because at it’s base, that’s what Pro Wrestling itself is. I can't hold that against the movie though. Something that's organized, structured, coherent, and tells a story that's compelling for the audience - that is how it's supposed to be. I much prefer this approach over the loose and meandering way something like Lipstick and Dynamite was put together (especially when that contained its fair share of BS too - *cough* Moolah *cough*). Quote It’s Pro Wrestling, so if you approach watching this documentary as if you’re watching a Pro Wrestling match, you’ll probably enjoy it. You just have to be willing to suspend disbelief. It’s like any good Pro Wrestling match. Exactly how I felt, but unlike you, I think that's actually the perfect approach for this material. I really enjoyed the documentary. I think I ultimately liked it more than you. It was very (sports) entertaining. Even when I questioned the validity of what I was seeing at times, those scenes still served to reveal greater truths about pro wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, C.S. said: I had no idea that was Peter Avalon. Was his look completely different or was I just tired? I think that was pretty much the way he normally looks? I've only seen him a couple of times in AEW though, and to be honest I wasn't paying all that much attention. I am 99% sure that was him, though. 1 hour ago, C.S. said: Do you think he was aided by any "enhancements?" His look certainly wasn't steroidal in nature, but as we've seen with even guys like Jamie Noble getting popped, you don't necessarily have to look like Ultimate Warrior to be on the juice. I do indeed think that. The reason is, if you look his face was a bit puffy and rounder looking, which is usually a dead giveaway that somebody is on steroids. Not to mention, this documentary supposedly took place within the space of one year, and I think he underwent a fairly dramatic physical transformation for such a short time period. Who knows, I could totally be wrong, but the first time I saw him in that (horrifying) spray tan scene, the first thought that came to my mind was "I bet he's taking steroids." Actually, that was my second thought. My first thought was "Dear Lord, please don't let that sock fall off his dick." 1 hour ago, C.S. said: I could've also done without the scene involving serial rapist Joseph Meehan (Joey Ryan), which added nothing to the movie and could've (and should've) easily been cut. The credits list a bunch of people we never actually saw in the movie - Bully Ray, etc. - so I'm wondering how much was left on the cutting room floor. In fairness, I am pretty sure this documentary actually came out prior to the allegations about Joey Ryan. I did see Bully Ray in the documentary, but it was a "blink and you'd miss it" deal. During the montage of Arquette wrestling on the indies, there is a very brief clip of Bully Ray putting him through a table, and then at the end when he is getting congratulated by all the other wrestlers in the Locker Room, I am pretty sure Bully Ray is one of the guys who gives Arquette a hug. 1 hour ago, C.S. said: "Selling point of the documentary"??? Really?! I think you misunderstood me, or more likely I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean the actual match with Nick Gage was the selling point of the documentary, I meant to say that the subsequent injury was kind of the selling point, and the whole reason for the title of the film. I don't know about you, but I didn't even know David Arquette had become a Pro Wrestler until he got his jugular vein punctured during that match...when that happened it was pretty big news. I remember seeing it a bunch of different places in the media, and not just on Pro Wrestling news sites. I remember I was sitting in the waiting room at the hospital and it came on the 24 Hour News feed on the TV there. I meant to say either the injury was a "work" intended to promote the documentary, or at the very least David Arquette and the filmmakers were able to exploit the injury to help promote the film and give it a whole lot more notoriety than it probably would have had otherwise. 1 hour ago, C.S. said: To be honest, I think you've been spoiled by the intelligent and articulate discourse here on PWO. I don't think the movie was necessarily accentuating stereotypes as much as revealing the facts. Most rasslin' fans really are like this - especially at indie shows and conventions. Fair point. Maybe I just didn't want to admit how most hardcore Pro Wrestling fans come across...because it sure wasn't pretty. 1 hour ago, C.S. said: I really enjoyed the documentary. I think I ultimately liked it more than you. It was very (sports) entertaining. Even when I questioned the validity of what I was seeing at times, those scenes still served to reveal greater truths about pro wrestling. I don't disagree with you all that much. It was very entertaining, and I would recommend it to others. I just thought parts of it were fishy...some parts more than others. But overall, I didn't dislike the movie. I have seen a ton of bad documentary films in my time, and this was a lot better than many of those. Like Eric Bischoff said in the interview, it was very professionally shot and edited. It looked good, and that's more than you can say for a lot of films like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 Holy shit, TTK, that is the motherload of recaps. Thank you! One thing I'll point out about this line of yours, though... because if your husband is doing something which could end your marriage, the natural thing to do is produce it. ...is that producing an ex-spouse's work is very common in Hollywood. James Cameron still does work with Gale Anne Hurd, Kathryn Bigelow, and Linda Hamilton, and all three are ex-wives. It was likely an exaggeration on his wife's part, but producers will hitch their name to anything they think can make them some money, even if the work is being done by an ex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 I imagine the viewing experience when you're recapping something with pencil and paper/keyboard in hand, is different to just putting yer feet up and indulging in your vice of choice while watching. (Recapping/reviewing is not something I've done, but I've been meaning to have a stab at it.) I probably noticed the hokey/staged bits at the time, but I didn't remember them afterwards. I just took things at face-value (the suspension of disbelief, as mentioned in an earlier post) and was rooting for the hero. But I didn't watch it knowing people wanted my analysis. Great, great job and I thank you. I don't envy you - how long does a 90 min doco end up being when you're recapping it? - but I do thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Does anyone else think Arquette is full of shit regarding his memories of the SoCal wrestling scene? Like, I mean, I cannot tell you off the top of my head the SoCal headliners during the 60s and 70s without looking and discussing it over with my friends; however, I didn't grow up there, unlike Arquette. But for him, while recounting his memories, he just happens to remember Georgeous George, who, while obviously having a base in SoCal, had a nationwide presence in the 50s, and then the next thing he remembers is Hulk Hogan and the invading 1980s wrestling presence? I mean I am an Arquette fan and his ex-wife being a Friends star made me explore his entire career in-depth because Friends was really the first Western pop-culture product apart from WWF to really hit it big in India, and I cannot explain in words just how big and important it was. Therefore, please trust me, I have no resentment towards Arquette. But I dunno, this narrative makes me feel he is trying to revise history to make himself more palatable to wrestling fans, for whatever reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, MoS said: Does anyone else think Arquette is full of shit regarding his memories of the SoCal wrestling scene? But for him, while recounting his memories, he just happens to remember Georgeous George, who, while obviously having a base in SoCal, had a nationwide presence in the 50s, and then the next thing he remembers is Hulk Hogan and the invading 1980s wrestling presence? Well, David Arquette's dad was a wrestling fan too, so it's possible he's remembering stories his dad told him about Gorgeous George. I find that very plausible. I mean, David Arquette was born in 1971, so he obviously did not see Gorgeous George live in the 1950s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 4 hours ago, C.S. said: Well, David Arquette's dad was a wrestling fan too, so it's possible he's remembering stories his dad told him about Gorgeous George. I find that very plausible. I mean, David Arquette was born in 1971, so he obviously did not see Gorgeous George live in the 1950s. lol fair enough. I admit that one of the biggest reasons I like reading about/listening to/watching wrestlers' shoots/podcasts is cuz I find it a bit fun to poke through all the holes in their stories. That has nothing to do with the amazing job TTK is doing in this epic thread to transcribe everything said by people on these podcasts. If I have to blame anyone, I would blame Larry Z and Greg Gagne, since they were the first shoot interviews I ever listened to, and of course they claimed personal credit for every single good and significant thing to have occurred in pro wrestling in the last 50 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Maybe he's like Muhammad Ali and mixed up Gorgeous George and Freddie Blassie. Also, the LA territory was in a death spiral by the late 70s, so I can buy someone born in 1971 having no recollection of pre-WWF wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 On 1/24/2021 at 10:24 PM, Matt D said: I'm far behind as things have been crazy lately, but thanks for the Herd interview. On 1/25/2021 at 3:01 AM, MoS said: This is a fucking epic recap, Dave. More effusive praises and specific reactions to follow soon, but just know that this is fucking amazing. TTK is the internet wrestling poster of the year already, and we are not even done with January 15 hours ago, Laz said: Holy shit, TTK, that is the motherload of recaps. Thank you! Thanks for the positive feedback guys. As long as people keep enjoying these things, I will try to keep doing them as long as I am able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 9 hours ago, Dav'oh said: Great, great job and I thank you. I don't envy you - how long does a 90 min doco end up being when you're recapping it? - but I do thank you. You're quite welcome. My process for doing a recap is usually like this... I listen to the podcast once, straight through without interruption or without writing anything down. I just want to get the basic idea of what is said, and by whom. The only time I tried recapping the podcast without listening to it first, was with the Mike Chioda Q&A and I found that difficult to try and type and listen to what was specifically being said at the same time. Most of the recaps I have done have been of podcasts that have been 90 minutes or longer, so I break them up into 30 minute segments. I listen to 30 minutes, stopping the playback after every question or major statement and then type it into my laptop. If the quote is particularly noteworthy I try and write it out verbatim, otherwise I usually try to summarize as succinctly as possible. After I have finished 30 minutes of the podcast, I stop. I find I don't mind the process at all if I do it in 30 minute instalments but any longer than that it stops being fun and starts feeling like work. Usually, recapping 30 minutes of talking takes about twice that long to recap, so doing an entire 90 minute podcast can take up to 3 hours, but like I said...I don't do it all in one sitting. The only recap I ever transcribed from this thread in one sitting was "Vader Goes Down." That podcast was about an hour and it took me about two hours to recap. The "Eric Leaves WWE" and Jim Herd Interviews were both a bit longer, so they both took longer to recap. Plus, both of those were pretty dense with information so they seemed a little harder to recap. The Arquette documentary was a bit different. I originally just intended to recap the Arquette interview with Eric Bischoff because @C.S. and @MoS had asked me to. But after I listened to the interview, I found I was actually more curious about seeing the actual documentary. I googled it, and found out it had just been added to Netflix, so later that same evening I sat down and watched it. It was only after I finished watching it that I decided to recap it, since it was fresh in my mind. I intended the recap of the documentary to be more of a personal review rather than a factual point-by-point recap and report of everything that happened in the film. I just wanted to kind of summarize what I saw and give my opinion. Writing that out was easy, because I wasn't stopping the playback every couple of seconds to transcribe something. I could let that review fly, so I typed that up pretty much as an afterthought, in a matter of minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 9 hours ago, MoS said: But for him, while recounting his memories, he just happens to remember Georgeous George, who, while obviously having a base in SoCal, had a nationwide presence in the 50s, and then the next thing he remembers is Hulk Hogan and the invading 1980s wrestling presence? TTK's recap makes it clear that Arquette watched reruns of classic LA wrestling on TV as a child, before the WWF made the big expansion. A rerun is older footage being shown again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Gorgeous George was such a ubiquitous part of wrestling in his heyday that he could've been confused with any number of other wrestlers. My dad told me years ago that he saw "Gorgeous George" on the 700 Club (pretty sure it was Superstar Billy Graham). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Laz said: A rerun is older footage being shown again. Is "rerun" not a common word in other parts of the world? 10 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: I intended the recap of the documentary to be more of a personal review rather than a factual point-by-point recap and report of everything that happened in the film. I just wanted to kind of summarize what I saw and give my opinion. Writing that out was easy, because I wasn't stopping the playback every couple of seconds to transcribe something. I could let that review fly, so I typed that up pretty much as an afterthought, in a matter of minutes. I definitely appreciated both. It was a blast watching the documentary, and then reading your recap of the interview and movie. Thank you for doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, C.S. said: Is "rerun" not a common word in other parts of the world? **shrugs** I don't post here enough anymore, so I had no idea @MoS is from India, so the two of you trying to figure out if Arquette's father told him stories of Gorgeous George when the recap specifies that Arquette saw reruns of 50s wrestling matches as a kid struck me as odd. Maybe it's too much of a Western phrase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Laz said: **shrugs** I don't post here enough anymore, so I had no idea @MoS is from India, so the two of you trying to figure out if Arquette's father told him stories of Gorgeous George when the recap specifies that Arquette saw reruns of 50s wrestling matches as a kid struck me as odd. Maybe it's too much of a Western phrase? To be very honest, I misread that part, and read 'reruns' as 'run.' That's on me, I apologise. I still think he's full of shit a bit, but @NintendoLogic is correct about SoCal being a dead territory in the late 70s - NOT the early 70s, where there were numerous full houses - so maybe I am the one full of shit, and he was telling the truth. I accept zero responsibility and again blame Larry Z and Greg Gagne for conditioning me to be skeptical about what wrestlers say. Hey, if all the wrestlers in interviews can refuse to take their rightful blame and deflect to someone else, why can't I lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, MoS said: I accept zero responsibility and again blame Larry Z and Greg Gagne for conditioning me to be skeptical about what wrestlers say. Hey, if all the wrestlers in interviews can refuse to take their rightful blame and deflect to someone else, why can't I lol Skeptical about what wrestlers say? I'm skeptical about you being skeptical! Are you trying to insinuate that maybe Hulk Hogan was stretching the truth when he claims that Andre the Giant weighed close to 700 pounds when he body slammed him at WrestleMania 3 and that Hulk tore nearly every muscle in his back picking him up, and that Andre died just a few months later? Because I find it hard to believe that the bastion of Truth, Justice, and the American Way in the 1980's would do such a thing, Brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, Blehschmidt said: Skeptical about what wrestlers say? I'm skeptical about you being skeptical! Are you trying to insinuate that maybe Hulk Hogan was stretching the truth when he claims that Andre the Giant weighed close to 700 pounds when he body slammed him at WrestleMania 3 and that Hulk tore nearly every muscle in his back picking him up, and that Andre died just a few months later? Because I find it hard to believe that the bastion of Truth, Justice, and the American Way in the 1980's would do such a thing, Brother! A few months? It was days, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 5 hours ago, MoS said: I accept zero responsibility and again blame Larry Z and Greg Gagne for conditioning me to be skeptical about what wrestlers say. Hey, if all the wrestlers in interviews can refuse to take their rightful blame and deflect to someone else, why can't I lol Dude, just wait until I finally get around to recapping "Eric Fires Back." Conrad plays clips of some of Greg Gagne's biggest bullshit from various Shoot Interviews over the years, and when Bischoff actually hears some of the claims Gagne has made, his head practically explodes. Especially when Gagne tries to take credit for Hulk Hogan signing with WCW. Even Bischoff (who has been known to take credit for things he might have only been peripherally involved with) has gone on record multiple times and said that the Hogan to WCW deal was brokered by Ric Flair, at Ted Turner and Eric Bischoff's request. I've said it elsewhere here at PWO...Greg Gagne has to be tied with Mike Graham and Manny "I was in Viet Nam" Fernandez for the most delusional and provably untrue nonsense ever spouted during a Shoot Interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 I feel really bad speaking ill of the dead, especially those who succumbed to mental health issues, but fuck Mike Graham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 10 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: A few months? It was days, brother. (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) and Yeah, sometimes I forget my Hulk Hogan Bullshit Timeline. Was this before or after he almost played bass for Metallica? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 I mentioned this over in the Conrad Thompson thread in the podcast folder, but I feel so strongly about this issue I wanted to say it here in this thread as well. When you subscribe to Ad Free Shows they usually release the podcasts a week early, without ads. They also have exclusive video versions of the show for subscribers that are not available on Westwood One. The new Chris Hero podcast has been released in video form, and tonight they also released the first episode of Conrad's brand new weekly podcast with Kurt Angle a week early. It won't be available to the public until February 7, and the Chris Hero podcast won't be available to the public at all. I really like everybody here at PWO, but you should absolutely not send me a PM and ask for a link to the early video release of these two podcasts, because I would never send it to you, and I'm a little insulted that any of you think I would do that. So do not send me a PM to ask to see the early release versions of Chris Hero or Kurt Angle's podcasts, because I would never ever share those links with you. I'm sorry if any of you wanted to see either of those new podcasts, but there is no point in sending me a PM and telling me that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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