Should we feel bad for Christian?

[Bix]

He goes from debuting in a main event angle to returning on ECW to confront Jack Swagger and challenge the winner of Swagger-Finlay to a title shot.

[Strummer]

That's the most suprised I've been watching wrestling in years.

 

Like Bix said he went from a top angle on Smackdown to ECW

[CodySave]

Here's what I wrote on the other board:

 

Jesus christ, I typically like the team of Grisham and Striker, but Grisham is treating Christian like he has no history in the WWE. Striker is the only one acknowledging he's making his return, but neither one has mentioned anything about his past accomplishments in WWE. Thank god that Finlay joined them, because he's actually provided some of the best insight in the match.

 

I think I'm still bitter they completely botched a well-built, ready-made Christian vs. John Cena feud about 3-4 years ago. They finally had a big PPV match and they throw Jericho into the fold - why? It's like they had no faith in Christian as a top level guy when the crowd was giving him mega reactions every week.

Someone corrected me and said that Grisham did mention Christian's past title reigns, but I must have missed it.

 

Still - of all the things they could have done with him, I'm not sure I feel very positive about this being the way to re-debut him. Perhaps Christian requested such a return himself? Otherwise, I'm still convinced they don't know what the hell to do with him. I mean, Christian ripping Cena for months was so simple in build but so well received - the fans were really clamoring to see them finally compete one-onone - and we all know how that turned out.

 

I mean - what happened? I can't believe the original plan was for Matt Hardy to be the one behind the Jeff Hardy attacks in place of Christian. I'm convinced they changed the plans at some point.

 

[staff writer 1] "Hey - we have Christian coming back - he was way over with the fans before he left for TNA. What should we do with him?"

[staff writer 2] "I know...let's have him be behind the attacks on WWE champion Jeff Hardy!"

[staff writer 3] "No - better idea - let's have him return on our secondary show, ECW, and have him pin the lower-tier ECW champion in his return match, but his win isn't even the focal point of the finish of the show because the champion's upcoming PPV challenger is at ringside!

[Together] "THAT'S PERFECT!"

[Bix]

They also got rid of every deluxe element from his entrance, which was a big part of his near-elevation: No more jumpsuit, no more pyro, and his entrance music was jarringly remixed.

[CodySave]

They also got rid of every deluxe element from his entrance, which was a big part of his near-elevation: No more jumpsuit, no more pyro, and his entrance music was jarringly remixed.

This is an excellent point, as the remix of his music really falls flat in comparison. The pop for his entrance for tonight's match was the utter definition of "and the crowd goes mild!"

 

I also don't know why you would have a guy lose a jumpsuit unless a fancy new one is still being made for him.

 

I missed the start of the show - was there a big pop for his surprise entrance to start the program?

[Tim Evans]

There was a pretty big "Christian chant" once the music stopped.

 

I don't mind him being on ECW. That brand needed something and he fits right in. If he went on smackdown, He would be just a Hurricane Helms type mid carder once Jeff beat him. And Smackdown is horrible these days anyways. He would never be ahead of guys like HHH, Taker, Edge, Show, Hardy's etc.

[sek69]

Considering MyNetworkTV just basically went tits up, it might have been the smart move putting him on the brand who's show airs on the more stable network.

[rovert]

I don’t know maybe his appearance on ECW was a once off and they wanted to get the initial return pop out of the way before being revealed as the culprit in the Jeff Hardy angle as they were seemingly so afraid at the Royal Rumble that the crowd wouldn’t boo a returning Christian. Then again WWE wants to "rebuild" him on his return ala Matt Hardy.

[MikeCampbell]

I honestly think people are overreacting a bit by saying how it's such a huge waste to put him on ECW. The brand split hasn't truly meant anything since 2007 when they stopped running the single brand PPVs. The move to ECW is probably to get him back into the swing of things as far as the traveling and to work off any ring rust from his time off. And there's no reason why he couldn't work a month long program with Swagger and then go to RAW or SD.

[kjh]

I suppose it depends who leaked the payoff to the Jeff Hardy mystery assailant attacks angle to Dave Meltzer. I mean that Christian was the original plan was pretty obvious, but the plans for No Way Out and Mania were leaked too. I'm not surprised he got Matt Hardy's old spot as top ECW babyface, given that the Mania plans are probably set in stone by now and that was the only spot left open for him to take.

 

Really, botching big name debuts/returns should be expected from WWE by now. Most guys end up starting in a similar or worse position than they were in previously. That said, I think in the long run Christian will be fine, once he's paid for his past sins, as he's got the talent and charisma to overcome the botched return, like Chris Jericho did.

[Loss]

They also got rid of every deluxe element from his entrance, which was a big part of his near-elevation: No more jumpsuit, no more pyro, and his entrance music was jarringly remixed.

I wish they would go back to the original 2001 theme, with the "Bohemian Rhapsody"-like tune mixed with random Italian screaming.

[Guest The 3H's]

How do we know Christian was supposed to be the one attacking Jeff?

 

All the evidence pointed at Matt from day one. I think Meltzer just got it wrong this time, and people were victims of their own hype.

[sek69]

How do we know Christian was supposed to be the one attacking Jeff?

 

All the evidence pointed at Matt from day one. I think Meltzer just got it wrong this time, and people were victims of their own hype.

 

Because the whole "mystery attacker" angle really started ramping up around the time that Christian's TNA deal expired, and that Dave was told that Matt was put into the role at the last minute because Vince was pissed everyone already guessed it was going to be Christian revealed as the attacker.

 

See also the "We Want Christian" chants at the Rumble, I don't think everyone in the arena was a WON subscriber.

[Guest The 3H's]

I'm not buying that, everything after the Survivor Series pointed to Matt. There was that whole promo the week after Survivor Series, where Edge basically told Matt he wasn't shit without Jeff. Matt found him knocked out in the hotel room, he was leaving Matt house when he was run off the road, and then there was that episode od Smackdown where he intentionally yanked Jeff's injured arm, but it was played off as an accident.

 

I feel people were just victims of their own fantasy bookings.

[sek69]

It seems pretty clear that they just flipped the script when they felt too many people knew what was going on since Christian is now in the exact same role Matt was in prior to his heel turn.

 

 

Also, why do people think Dave just thinks these things up himself and isn't being told things by his connections in the company. I really don't see how this can be deemed as someone's overactive imagination when it seems pretty clear they just swapped them out.

[Grimmas]

I'm not buying that, everything after the Survivor Series pointed to Matt. There was that whole promo the week after Survivor Series, where Edge basically told Matt he wasn't shit without Jeff. Matt found him knocked out in the hotel room, he was leaving Matt house when he was run off the road, and then there was that episode od Smackdown where he intentionally yanked Jeff's injured arm, but it was played off as an accident.

 

I feel people were just victims of their own fantasy bookings.

If that was true then why did Matt Hardy fight so hard against Kozlov to get Jeff Hardy to get into that Armageddon title match?

[Guest The 3H's]

It seems pretty clear that they just flipped the script when they felt too many people knew what was going on since Christian is now in the exact same role Matt was in prior to his heel turn.

 

 

Also, why do people think Dave just thinks these things up himself and isn't being told things by his connections in the company. I really don't see how this can be deemed as someone's overactive imagination when it seems pretty clear they just swapped them out.

 

No, it seems the script went as planned and people were just seeing something that wasn't there. Hell, in DVDVR People were joking about how obvious it was Matt was going heel a couple of months ago. Now that it happened, people are just kind of upset that the scenario they booked in their head, didn't match up with the scenario WWE booked in reality.

 

I'm not saying Dave made shit up, I'm saying he either just got it wrong this particular time, got worked, or just jumped the gun a bit. Fact is, there was nothing that really pointed in Christian's direction, everything leads to Matt Hardy and it has since November, and people were even calling it as early as November.

 

 

 

Grimmas: The Survivor Series spot was botched I admit, but I think that it could easily be seen as Matt attacking a guy, who tortued him weeks before the S. Series, and then beat him that night. Or in short it was a fuck up by creative, which happens in almost every storyline in the company.

[Marty]

Lord knows it wouldn't be the first time Dave's been worked.

[sek69]

It seems pretty clear that they just flipped the script when they felt too many people knew what was going on since Christian is now in the exact same role Matt was in prior to his heel turn.

 

 

Also, why do people think Dave just thinks these things up himself and isn't being told things by his connections in the company. I really don't see how this can be deemed as someone's overactive imagination when it seems pretty clear they just swapped them out.

 

No, it seems the script went as planned and people were just seeing something that wasn't there. Hell, in DVDVR People were joking about how obvious it was Matt was going heel a couple of months ago. Now that it happened, people are just kind of upset that the scenario they booked in their head, didn't match up with the scenario WWE booked in reality.

 

I'm not saying Dave made shit up, I'm saying he either just got it wrong this particular time, got worked, or just jumped the gun a bit. Fact is, there was nothing that really pointed in Christian's direction, everything leads to Matt Hardy and it has since November, and people were even calling it as early as November.

 

 

 

Grimmas: The Survivor Series spot was botched I admit, but I think that it could easily be seen as Matt attacking a guy, who tortued him weeks before the S. Series, and then beat him that night. Or in short it was a fuck up by creative, which happens in almost every storyline in the company.

 

 

Honestly dude, it seems like you're the one trying to convince yourself that this was the plan all along and not example #70989081901 of Vince/WWE changing direction midstream for some dumbass reason. Anything that could potentially prove you wrong is a "botch" or creative fucking up I guess.

 

 

The number one thing I can point to that makes Matt being the guy from the start seem wrong is how despite him being cheered while being jobbed out prior to his ECW push, his first promo after turning heel was how the fans never liked him as much as Jeff or whatnot which is so amazingly dumb you can't possibly believe it wasn't something thought up minutes before the show. Does anyone really buy Matt as a heel wronged by the fans when he was getting pretty loud reactions even when it was clear they had no interest in pushing him?

[kjh]

I suppose I could see a scenario where the WWE higher ups worked Christian and the sheets into believing he was up for a major push off the bat, only to give the role to someone else in order to screw with Christian for having the audacity of being the first person who voluntarily jumped ship to TNA. Though Vince changing his mind at some point is equally plausible.

[Guest The 3H's]

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. I've been saying it was Matt since November, as have many other people. When people were saying it was Christian, I was saying the idea really made no sense at all, seeing as Christian coming back as Edge lackey would really mean shit at the end of the day, and despite all the "accidents" he may have been doing to Jeff, the fan would still cheer him when he came back, simply because they are happy too see him.

 

Matt on the other hand needed something fresh to do, I mean other then a feud with MVP and getting 12-15 minutes a week to work with random people, he hasn'ty really been doing anything interesting the last 2 years, well other then being Jeff's less charasmatic, less over, and less interesting older brother that is. So him being the guy torturing Jeff made way more sense, then a guy who was last seen on WWE TV getting beating up by the Mexicools. What is his beef? He seen Jeff become a huge star while he was in Florida wrestling in a goofy looking ring for Jeff Jarrett? I mean Matt has set back years and watched his less talented, fuck up of a brother hog up all the spotlight, and get all the attention despite being a junkie. While he was basically just around to make sure Jeff didn't OD on a rail of meth. So yeah, it made a lot of sense that Matt has been trying to kill Jeff for the last few months. I'm sure getting cheered by the fat chicks in the audience was nice and all, but at the end of the day it was clear who the most important Hardy was, and Matt got tired of it.

[Marty]

I find myself siding with the 3 H's on this debate, because I'm skeptical of the original reports of Christian being the guy attacking Jeff Hardy. I just can't convince myself that Vince would book Christian to have that sort of return to the company. I'm just thinking about how the company generally operates. That sort of return usually is reserved for those who have had strong main event runs in the past and we really can't say that about Christian. Hell, remember that Vince pulled Christian from the John Cena feud in favour of Jericho instead. Knowing Vince the way we do, do we honestly believe that he'd book a lifelong WWF/E midcarder to cause a car wreck with the current WWE champ and to also bollocks up the pyro of that WWE champ as well? I'm not buying it.

[Bob Morris]

It's possible both Christian and Matt Hardy were discussed for the spot and, at some point, they made the nod to go with Matt.

 

Although I would agree that Matt was the more logical choice because he was already on the WWE roster, and more importantly, a Matt/Jeff feud is at least something fresh, rather than us repeating Hardys vs. E&C all over again. People may get nostalgic for that stuff, but I'd rather it be left for WWE 24/7 or DVD sets than being revived again on the current product.

 

I think the Christian stuff took more of a life because people watched Christian go to TNA, get pushed quickly to the top, then have his push mishandled nearly every step of the way, thus people believed that WWE would somehow "get it right" with an immediate push in a top spot. But the truth is, that wasn't going to happen because, while Christian left WWE mostly on good terms, he was never viewed by anyone in WWE as more than a midcarder.

 

Christian made it pretty clear he left WWE because he had saved enough money to do so, go elsewhere, freshen up his act and work a lighter schedule. Now that he's done that, he's gone back to WWE so he can make more money, which no doubt he'll save again over the course of his current contract, and when it expires, he'll give notice again and either work elsewhere for a few years, or he may just opt to leave wrestling altogether.

 

Compared to most wrestles, Christian is pretty smart with how he's handled his career.

[kjh]

But the truth is, that wasn't going to happen because, while Christian left WWE mostly on good terms, he was never viewed by anyone in WWE as more than a midcarder.

I don't think that's really true. I get the sense that there were members of the creative team who were really high on him and pushed for him to be used as more than just a midcarder, but the key decision makers, most importantly Vince, didn't see him as anything more than that.

[Kronos]

I don't feel bad for him. He might get buried on another show, either out of overcrowding or spite. This way, he gets to be a focus (hopefully). And for Swagger, it would be a good opportunity to learn better promo skills. I mean, look at the difference between them in that opener when Xian slams him for being lispy -- Swagger was nowhere near that mic level.