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Finishing moves


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So, I have been working on the Four Horsemen set and, as a match finished, I was reading the "Same Moves on the Same Show" thread. Dylan mentioned that context was key and it got me to thinking... What moves would I love to see re-introduced as finishers and what moves are better left in the dustbin of history? This brings me to the Horsemen. Is there any reason the Gourdbuster isn't used anymore? Arn picking jobbers up and slamming them on their face seems like a credible finisher. With that said, I don't think I have seen anyone use it, even as a transitional move, in over 20 years. When you watch those slo-mo replays and see Gene Ligon or Ron Rossi's face bounce off the mat, it certainly seems like certain death. Then you have Tully Blanchard. The slingshot suplex seemed hokey to me in 1986 when I was a kid. I know Austin used it in WCW but I am kind of glad this one disappeared. It was put over way more than it should have been. A double team move I really liked was Ole coming off the top rope with a knee as Arn held the arm and then Ole applying an armbar. Depending on the jobber and the bump off the impact of the move, sometimes it looked really devastating. Other times, like Sam Houston collapsing before there was any impact, hurt the effectiveness.

 

Anyway, other finishers I am surprised are no longer used, even though they were really over are the F5 and the Jackhammer. The F5 seems like it could still be used and I don't think Brock will be coming back anytime soon. I always thought the Jackhammer looked cool but I never bought it as a game-ender like the Stunner or Diamond Cutter.

 

Discuss.

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A double team move I really liked was Ole coming off the top rope with a knee as Arn held the arm and then Ole applying an armbar. Depending on the jobber and the bump off the impact of the move, sometimes it looked really devastating.

I loved the simplicity of this move when the person on the receiving end knew how to take it.

 

One of my favorite double team moves was from the team of Condrey and Schultz in Memphis. Schultz would chicken wing the arm and hook his toe under the forearm. Condrey would run into the ropes and cross body Schultz, snapping the recipient's arm. I don't buy it as a finisher but it was a great punishing move.

 

I think the abdominal stretch was a great move (and really hurt like hell when applied as a guillotine in amateur wrestling) but the foot needs to be hooked! Also, with the rise of MMA, I'm surprised the sleeper hasn't made a comeback. It would have to be modified into that rear naked choke style, though. Laying on the mat with the feet hooked around the midsection.

 

I was always a fan of the brainbuster, visually, but I can't imagine anyone bringing that back.

 

No one really does a powerslam, at all, any more. At least no one that jumps to mind. It's kind of been replaced by spinebuster type moves.

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F5 is kinda goofy, and since it was created for Lesnar it would seem like a rip-off for anyone else to do it stateside. Ditto (somewhat) the jackhammer. Like, if HHH was out of wrestling now it would be weird to have guys doing the pedigree outside of an ironic context like Jimmy Rave.

 

Very much agreed on the gourdbuster, however it really depends on who does it. In the wrong hands it would either look weak or be dangerous. Fine for the indies or Japan, probably okay for TNA, but doubtful that WWE would let wrestlers tread that particular fine line.

 

The slingshot suplex would probably work better with today's tighter ropes. Could be wrong. Something like a slingshot jackhammer would come across as novel.

 

I'm a big fan of the "one-arm" / "dragon" backbreaker (belly-to-back suplex into backbreaker). Done really well by Billy Robinson, now only done by Masao Inoue. Speaking of which, Inoue also sometimes does Ted DiBiase Sr's Million Dollar Buster (cobra clutch side legsweep to pinning combination). Both would come across as something unique in the vast majority of today's promotions.

 

George Steele's hanging chickenwing and Steamboat's hanging double-chickenwing are both cool but wouldn't work in the "guy doesn't give up and stays in the hold for three and a half minutes" spot that 99% of finisher submissions wind up in at some point.

 

edit: I think these types of threads always suffer from a lack of context. Are we just talking about WWE, or wrestling as a whole. Because a hell of a lot of moves are used as the finish by at least one or two active wrestlers somewhere in the world.

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I don't watch enough current WWE to limit the topic to just WWE. However, what I have seen, the moves I mentioned are not really utilized at all. If they are being used, where? This topic is more about finishers (or moves) that you have seen in the past (gourdbuster, hanging chickenwing, etc) that you think was really effective (or ineffective) and would love to see make a comeback (or stay gone for good).

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The TKO was a fireman's carry into a cutter.

I don't watch enough current WWE to limit the topic to just WWE. However, what I have seen, the moves I mentioned are not really utilized at all. If they are being used, where? This topic is more about finishers (or moves) that you have seen in the past (gourdbuster, hanging chickenwing, etc) that you think was really effective (or ineffective) and would love to see make a comeback (or stay gone for good).

I more mean that's how topics normally wind up.
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I'd like to see some stuff that isn't necessary an "impact" finisher come back, like the flying bodypress. Not every finisher has to hurt, as long as it gets a pin. More pinning combination finishers would be nice. I wouldn't even mind something like La Magistral being booked as an inescapable pin, with someone using it as a finisher for several months before someone finally figure out how to kick out of it. Even a victory roll as a finisher would be fine with me.

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Marc Mero was using the F5 calling it the TKO back in his latter day WWF run well before Lesnar came in.

I came here to say the TKO, but now I have to correct you. The TKO and the F5 are different moves. The TKO had the same set up with a guy in the fireman's carry position, but it ended in a spin into a Cutter.
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I often wonder why no one has brought back the crossface chickenwing. Backlund got it over in his crazy heel run, and with today's MMA-aware world it seems like an easy choice for someone working a "shooter" gimmick.

 

 

The camel clutch needs to make a comeback too, Scott Steiner may have killed it good with his version which looked like he was just rubbing his groin into the back of his opponent's head. Maryse actually does a pretty good one, but she uses it more as a transition hold.

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I came here to say the TKO, but now I have to correct you. The TKO and the F5 are different moves. The TKO had the same set up with a guy in the fireman's carry position, but it ended in a spin into a Cutter.

What was the F5 then? Did he just spin him to the mat? Odd, I always thought it was supposed to be the same move but that it was just done sloppily by Lesnar. Kind of like how Cena's Throwback/FU seemed like a sloppier Death Valley Driver when he started using it. My apologies.

 

IIRC, Bryan Danielson was using the cross face chicken wing for a bit. That is a great submission move, I'd love to see it brought back more prominantly.

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Fireman's carry into some kind of facebuster.

 

The biggest difference is that with the TKO the opponent's legs were thrown behind the person doing the move, and in the F5 the legs were thrown in front of the person doing it.

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Guest Kenta Batista

I've seen Joe use the Gourdbuster during his TNA run. I never really liked the move, but then again I am into the move flasher finishers. There are a lot of old school moves that I just think will not work as finishers today as no one will by into them as anything but a nice setup move. The Flatliner barely gets over now (was it ever over?) and when Masters' finishing move was found out to be The Master Lock most marks I spoke to just wasn't buying into it. Hell even some smarks admitted it is a good move and good finisher...just the wrong decade.

 

What moves from the past would I like to see come back? Just a personal favorite of mine would be The Regal Cutter, I saw Gail Kim break it out on Smackdown a while ago and I had an internal markout that was quickly subdued as soon as I took a swish of my Diet Mr. Pibb. Another move that I think will equal money in 2009 is the piledriver. That move has been banned for so long that WWE (or TNA) can easily run an angel where someone is going around pile driving people and putting some people in Austin SS 1996 outcomes and because of that Vince (or whoever) starts fining that person every time they use the move (like J.J. Dillion did with Nash in WCW after the botched powerbomb spot with The Giant). I really believe it 2009 that is the one old school move that can get over huge if done right and will look like CERTAIN DEATH given its LEGIT history of hurting people. If Orton's kick can get over...the piledriver can get over.

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I've always been a pretty big fan of Calf Branding, myself. Is anyone using that?

 

And it's more of a spot than a move but it really confuses me that the ten count punching in the corner, or the ten count head into all 3 turnbuckles aren't used much anymore. They're simple movies that get the crowd involved.

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And it's more of a spot than a move but it really confuses me that the ten count punching in the corner, or the ten count head into all 3 turnbuckles aren't used much anymore. They're simple movies that get the crowd involved.

Personally, If there's anything I ever hated in wrestling, it's the 10 punch spot in the corner bit especially when combined with other corny stuff. There's almost nothing that screams "This is Fake" more than that. It totally takes you out of the moment and ruins the match for me. Very few people can actually make this into a good, fun part of the match. It can be done but it's hard to do so.

 

Actually, now that I think about it the turnbuckle 10 count is even worse. It was stuff like that and the heels running into fake. lazy punchess off a hot tag that made puroresu so inviting at the time when I initially started watching it. Thankfully, this is the one things the WWE seemed to eventually catch on to over the years as they from what I've seen have pretty much eliminated it.

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I've long lamented the DDT's passing as a true finisher. Anyone still get a pin with that one?

 

No move ever looked as devestating as when Jake Roberts hit it, imo. Credible to get the opponent into and easy to apply, and driving someone's head into the mat I can certainly buy as a knockout blow.

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Barry Windham had a pretty swank DDT. I agree completely though. I think it has been mentioned but the Nitro-lucha roll through DDT probably hurt the DDT more than anything.

 

Completely disagree with Pegasus about the 10-count moves. Yes, it looks shitty if the guy has shitty punches. That is more a fault of the wrestler than the sequence. The turnbuckle face slamming is great esp. when the guy drops to his knees and you start ramming him into the middle turnbuckle. Fuck that. That shit is fun.

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Guest The 3H's

In theory shouldn't the guy giving the ten punches be DQ'ed? He going well ast the "5 Count" that you get to break the hold when your opponent is in the rope.

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Barry Windham had a pretty swank DDT. I agree completely though. I think it has been mentioned but the Nitro-lucha roll through DDT probably hurt the DDT more than anything.

 

Completely disagree with Pegasus about the 10-count moves. Yes, it looks shitty if the guy has shitty punches. That is more a fault of the wrestler than the sequence. The turnbuckle face slamming is great esp. when the guy drops to his knees and you start ramming him into the middle turnbuckle. Fuck that. That shit is fun.

But this begs the questions. Why does nobody in the WWE do this anymore? Back in the late 80s everybody was using this for awhile.

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It's probably confusing to the wrestlers and agents/producers that Vince is constantly telling them to tone things down but if they bring back some old school moves and spots they could get in trouble for reminding people of "rasslin" which is a big no-no.

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