Matt D Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 What about Superfly Sivi Afi? Surely he didn't get over as desired or is that too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 The Honky Tonk Man getting booed as a babyface when they debuted him is really the only time I can think of during that time of someone not getting the desired reaction. At the debut? Or relatively early in a push? For a debut, you might just be right. Can't think of others in the WWE. Early in the push, the fans didn't like Rock/Rocky. One of the reasons they turned him. It would be interesting to find when Razor started getting some positive vibe from the fans. The WWF turned him because he was getting too "cool". There have been a few others like that, though Razor was probably the most obvious. With Jake in the 80s and Taker in the 90s, it was a little more gradual. Don't recall Jake getting any positive buzz opposite Steamer. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 What about Superfly Sivi Afi? Surely he didn't get over as desired or is that too early.I think that was a case where the debut and character pissed off the crowd so Afi was dead in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 The Honky Tonk Man getting booed as a babyface when they debuted him is really the only time I can think of during that time of someone not getting the desired reaction. At the debut? Or relatively early in a push? For a debut, you might just be right. Can't think of others in the WWE. Early in the push, the fans didn't like Rock/Rocky. One of the reasons they turned him. It would be interesting to find when Razor started getting some positive vibe from the fans. The WWF turned him because he was getting too "cool". There have been a few others like that, though Razor was probably the most obvious. With Jake in the 80s and Taker in the 90s, it was a little more gradual. Don't recall Jake getting any positive buzz opposite Steamer. John Rocky actually got a good pop when he won the Survivor Series elimination match and the fans popped for his first I-C title win. Was it correct he was supposed to do a program with Marc Mero to try to make the fans more sympathetic to him? Either way, he didn't fit in well enough given that the fans were more interested in cheering somebody like Austin. I'd have to look at the Razor-Kid match from Raw again, but I do recall Razor getting a few cheers at that point. Of course, the pop after the match was entirely for Kid's win. Jake didn't get any face pops in the Steamboat program, but then they started toying with the idea of him turning face and he showed he could get a face pop. His matches with Savage were proof of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Watching 92 SMW TV now and it is pretty evident that at least up until the Ron Wright/DWB angle got up off the ground Orndorff was the best guy in the company. Consistently had the most entertaining matches with jobbers/undercard guys. Was good on the mic and good at getting over the angles he was involved with. Generally did more entertaining "stuff" in his matches than anyone else that was given any sort of push. Watching him from that period you really wish he would have hung around long enough to work a feud with Smothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Him being a slighted alternate in the title tournament was such a great idea for him to play off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Watching 92 SMW TV now and it is pretty evident that at least up until the Ron Wright/DWB angle got up off the ground Orndorff was the best guy in the company. Consistently had the most entertaining matches with jobbers/undercard guys. Was good on the mic and good at getting over the angles he was involved with. Generally did more entertaining "stuff" in his matches than anyone else that was given any sort of push. Watching him from that period you really wish he would have hung around long enough to work a feud with Smothers. Well they do have one t.v bout with one another. I assume you are talking about a feud. Which would have been pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I watched the Steamboat/Orndorff match from Halloween Havoc '93. These two match up well and they have a good match in them, but it just can't seem to come out. There's so much dead time and there are a few times where they cross signals. Don't know if it was just me but I thought both Orndorff and Steamer were REALLY intense in that match. I mean to the point where the thought of a heel Steamboat actually flickered through my mind. I might be the only guy around who really digs Orndorff in his WCW run. He seems a lot angier than his 80s incarnation. Permanent chip on his shoulder. And like I said: INTENSITY. Might not be "great" matches, but he has decent stuff in almost all his PPV appearances apart from a completely random match against Muta in 95 and of couse vs. The Renegade. He's even good tagging with Shockmaster against Steamboat and Regal at Battlebowl (92). People seem really down on Orndorff here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Orndorff had a really good first two thirds of 93. Granted, he was feuding with Cactus Jack, Dustin, and Ron Simmons for most of it and teaming with Rude, Vader, and Slater for a good chunk of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I might be the only guy around who really digs Orndorff in his WCW run. He seems a lot angier than his 80s incarnation. Permanent chip on his shoulder. And like I said: INTENSITY. Nope. I've been quite impressed with Orndorff in the 90's. Not impressed in a "he had great matches way", but impressed in how hard he worked most of the time, both in SMW and WCW. He was clearly the best worker in SMW during his tenure, and maintain that level of work in WCW for the 2/3rd of 1993 like Matt said. Then his work softened a little bit, but he still found ways to maintain a plateau level, adding some cool goofy maneurisms to his elbow drop for instance. It took some time for Pretty Wondeful to work as a unit, and it never went past the point of being a pretty good team, although toward the end Roma was more fun to watch thatn he's ever been. The problem is that they never quite got a chemistry with Stars & Stripes, and they worked against them a lot. By 1995 Orndorff was still mostly working hard and was showing no sign of "old guy wrestling" at all. Fine undercard veteran wrestler, fun interview. The guy's stock has gone way with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Orndorff has been publically bitter about his perceived place in Rasslin History. I am watching some 1984 WWF today. Orndorff is certainly good. He had a great physique, too. But I feel like he lacks a certain spark which would put him within the all-time greats. People like Hogan needed a guy like him to work off. But it doesn't mean Orndorff is at Hogan's level. It got me to thinking. Who would be in the same place today? Someone who was decent enough, who could work Main Event and Upper-Midcard matches adequately. But who just isn't quite there when it comes to calling him a superstar. Kane, maybe? Or maybe I am totally wrong on the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I would place Paul above Kane. I've always thought Kane was a joke as a Main Eventer, even as an opponent to someone on top who could carry more than his share of the load (Austin or Rock). Paul was pretty much in the role that Trip should have settled into. A big star who can more than carry his half of a main event feud (against Hogan, Pipper and then Hogan again), but really isn't someone who should be a Long Term Anchor Heel Champ or a Long Term Babyface Champ. Trip's probably is that he got placed into a role that was above where he should have been, or more accurately got placed there and used family relations to keep the spot. Paul was excellent against Hogan, probably his best all around opponent in the 1984-86 stretch of Expansion. He almost certainly could have played the role that Valentine did as IC Champ in 1984-85, and at the time wouldn't have been a bad alternative to Savage as IC Champ in 1986-87. Savage had "it", the hook with Liz and ended up being iconic. But it's really hard to say that Paul took a back seat to him in 1986. His problem after that was two fold: * After being that super nova against Hogan, it's a bit hard to find your footing afterwards. We could again point to Savage, but he really wasn't super nova with Hogan until 1989 and the Mega Powers break up. I don't think it's unreasonable to look at his career after that 1989 feud with Hogan and come to the conclusion that he was never as over as a draw to that level again in his WWF career, and that he often ended up being "disappointing" as a draw despite still being a recognized "top star" in the promotion. Paul was going to face that in the WWF even if the second thing didn't happen. * Injury He worked through it in the Hogan feud because he was making so much money, and it was such a key to the promotion. It pretty much toasted his "look", and we need to be honest that Vince was pretty look-centric at the time. Also, Paul's look was a key part of his persona within the WWF. It's an extreme come, but perhaps the equiv would be if Flair in 1986 suddenly had to shave off his hair *forever* and kept calling himself the Nature Boy. It would be odd. Anyway... Paul got screwed by the injury. Barring the injury, Vince would have kept pushing him, and he probably would have stayed in the WWF for as long as Valentine did. He was a bit more useful than Greg because he could work both as a face and as a heel in the WWF and get reactions from the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Good writeup, John. I'll get to the Hogan feud soon enough and be able to better judge for myself that period. If he really did get sidelined by the injury, in such a way that he never really regained his momentum, then that's unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I have some old Coliseum footage running as background noise, and I just stumbled across Orndorff firing Heenan on TNT. That's a pretty great segment. Heenan starts yelling at him, and Orndorff stands up to his full height, towers over Heenan, and basically tells him to go to hell. Heenan sells it like "Oh shit, I may have pushed my bullying a little too far this time" as he shrinks back down into his chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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