Who Is Better?

[Dylan Waco]

Hardy. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but Morrison is a guy that really struggles to do anything other than big moves in singles matches. Watching him try and sell from underneath, work a hold, or develop a cutoff spot is cringe worthy at times. Hardy is reasonably good at all of those things - at times great at them. I'm in the minority on the net, but to me Morrison is a guy that has been exposed as a singles wrestler, though he was very strong in tags.

[NitroFan]

Sting or Cena

 

Necro or Brody

 

Hansen or Dr Death

 

Danielson or Dynamite

[Dylan Waco]

Sting or Cena

 

Cena. Sting has never had a year like Cena's 07, and though I don't buy the argument that he was "along for the ride" in all of his big matches, it's also unfathomable to imagine him getting a good match out of Lashley - let alone Khali. Really Sting was more interesting as a offensive dynamo of sorts and Cena is better as "defensive" wrestler bumping and selling so they are less similar than they might appear on the surface. I will say in Sting's defense though that he was the perfect matchup for Vader and Cena has yet to find a perfect opponent of his own despite what the WWE hype machine might say.

 

Necro or Brody

 

Necro. Brody wasn't good at any point. Maybe not as bad as Ole Anderson, but never good.

 

Hansen or Dr Death

 

Hansen. Doc at times felt like a wrestler without an identity to me, sort of uncomfortable jerking between big bruiser and Mike Rotundo with a bigger belly. He was damn good to be sure, but I don't think he had "It" like Hansen did.

 

Danielson or Dynamite

 

Danielson. Dynamite is a mechanically good wrestler, with lots of disappointing matches. The Bulldogs are overrated as shit. Danielson had more great matches in 06 than DK had in his whole career.

[Childs]

Sting or Cena

Cena is a better seller and was better in '07 than Sting has been in any single year. But Sting still takes this because of his larger body of work. On a side note, I bet Cena could've had a pretty great series with Vader as well.

 

Necro or Brody

Necro actually sells. One could argue for Brody because he got over as a main eventer in big-time promotions. But fuck that. I hate watching him. He worked a bunch of boring rest holds and made his opponents look like shit by walking through their best offense. And this supposedly great brawler couldn't punch.

 

Hansen or Dr Death

Come on. I like Doc in All-Japan but what's the argument for him? Hansen lasted longer, was better on the mat, brawled better, sold better. He had better matches against their mutual opponents (except maybe Misawa.) Doc actually looked pretty lost in his New Japan run and didn't manage exceptional singles matches in All Japan until 1993. He came off as a legit badass and worked very hard, but I never got the sense that he could be the lead guy in a great match. Misawa, Kawada, Gordy etc. were the ones who brought the special quality to Doc's best stuff.

 

Danielson or Dynamite

I can't think of anything that Dynamite did better. I mean, maybe he was better at coming across as a guy who'd murder you in a bar brawl. But I'm not giving points for genuine psychosis.

[S.L.L.]

Sting or Cena

I tend to think of both as guys with relatively short peaks (though Cena's career is definitely far from over), but Cena definitely peaked higher. I'm leaning Cena, but we need a few more years before we can get a real definitive answer.

 

I will say in Sting's defense though that he was the perfect matchup for Vader and Cena has yet to find a perfect opponent of his own despite what the WWE hype machine might say.

Probably true. That said, as much as I hate the man's post-comeback work in general, Cena/Michaels has always been a really strong match-up.

 

Necro or Brody

Man, I can't believe there are still Brody defenders in '09. I mean, I watched a bunch of World Class, and one of the big revelations there was that Brody was actually tolerable and would actually sell for his opponents in that territory. Genuinely shocked to find a place where Brody actually met the bare minimum standards for being a good wrestler. Necro all the way.

 

Danielson or Dynamite

Danielson has been one of the most consistently strong workers of the decade. Dynamite was a flash in the pan, and one that I'm told didn't age well at that. If if I went back and found his New Japan stuff held up, I'd still be hard-pressed to put him above Danielson.

[stunning_grover]

Dustin Rhodes or Shiro Koshinaka?

Dustin. I like Koshinaka a lot though. By the way, about the Dustin discussions... I'd like to add that, around 1996, I remember that it was common to believe that Dustin's days as a really good worker were over when he had become Goldust. People actually recognised Dustin's WCW work as very good at the time. I think Dustin's WCW work became kind of "forgotten" in the late 1990s/early 2000s... until the Dustin Of The Day thing started in 2002.

 

Raven or Sandman?

Raven. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that Sandman was a decent worker.

 

Abdullah the Butcher or Bruiser Brody?

Abdullah.

 

Shane Douglas or Eddie Gilbert?

This is an interesting comparison, especially because Eddie Gilbert was actually the one who was about the first to ever realise Shane Douglas' potential. I really am an Eddie Gilbert fan, but I think Shane Douglas was a very good worker. Still, I think I'll go with Gilbert.

 

Sid or Kevin Nash?

Well, Nash's matches with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and Undertaker were far better than Sid's matches with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and Undertaker. So, I think Nash is slightly better.

 

Jim Powers or Paul Roma?

Paul Roma.

 

Undertaker or Vader?

Vader.

 

Finlay or Bret Hart?

Bret. I already mentioned some things about both of these workers earlier in this thread. But I think that when you take a look at the overall careers... Bret Hart is better than Finlay. Finlay in the early 1980s was great, Finlay from 1986-1995 is nothing really special and Finlay's short brawls from 1996 onwards have been fun to watch. That's not a bad career, but not as good as Bret's.

 

Yoshiaki Fujiwara or Volk Han?

Fujiwara. I respect Volk Han's ability and I think he's great at worked shoots (and shoots), but along with not liking the style of RINGS, the trouble I always have with ranking Volk Han as one of the 50 greatest pro wrestlers ever is that he has only worked in one very exclusive style of pro wrestling and never in a more "regular" pro wrestling setting. Sure, he is one of the greatest at what he does... but since we are discussing pro wrestling, I'm not sure if Volk Han would have been able to excel in a more "regular" pro wrestling organisation. For example, what would a Volk Han vs. Genichiro Tenryu match in New Japan or a Volk Han vs. Toshiaki Kawada match in All Japan have been like? I see RINGS just barely as a pro wrestling organisation and actually much more as a MMA organisation (and I'm not one of the many people who think MMA = pro wrestling).

 

MX vs. RnR Express or MX vs. Fantastics?

Tough question. But I think MX vs. RnR Express was better... it's definitely a close call though.

 

Rick Martel or Tito Santana?

I'll probably have to go with Tito Santana. Martel was probably better technically speaking, but Santana got more out of his matches.

 

Butch Reed or Ron Simmons?

Butch Reed.

 

Edge or Christian Cage?

Christian. Watching Edge's matches is more like watching a computer game and I don't like computer games.

 

Stan Hansen or Steve Williams?

I like Steve Williams a lot, but I'd have to give this one to Hansen.

 

Who is better...

Karl Gotch or Lou Thesz?

Nobuhiko Takada or Tatsumi Fujinami?

Volk Han or Stan Hansen?

Harley Race or Genichiro Tenryu?

Dan Spivey or Jimmy Snuka?

[Guest DietSoda]

Sting or Cena

I tend to think of both as guys with relatively short peaks (though Cena's career is definitely far from over), but Cena definitely peaked higher. I'm leaning Cena, but we need a few more years before we can get a real definitive answer.

 

I will say in Sting's defense though that he was the perfect matchup for Vader and Cena has yet to find a perfect opponent of his own despite what the WWE hype machine might say.

Probably true. That said, as much as I hate the man's post-comeback work in general, Cena/Michaels has always been a really strong match-up.

 

I tend to think Cena and Orton have that sort of glove-fitting chemistry together. Ortons offense vs Cenas selling always seems to work really well (who sells Orton's Garvin stomps better?), and I loved their Summerslam 07 and No Way Out 08 matches in particular. Their match this year was the least of their matches but a lot of that has to do with overbooking. Am I alone on this one?

 

Side question: When people say Sting never had a Cena 07, are they forgetting the 92 stretch of Vader matches? I can't think of anything Cena has done that year that touches those. I agree that Sting couldn't get as good a match out of Khali or Lashley as Cena did, and probably wasn't as good a carrier, but like Dylan said earlier, carrying ability isn't the most important thing. Sting has had many more high end matches.

[Dylan Waco]

Not forgetting the matches, but the scenarios aren't comparable.

 

Cena had a run of great matches against a wide variety of opponents. Several of the matches and opponents called for pretty large modifications in his work even though he managed to stay within the same general and believable formula.

 

Sting had great matches with Vader and Foley in 92, but offhand I can't think of any one else. This isn't a carrying argument, it's argument about depth of strong matches, diversity of opponent base, and adaptation.

 

I'll comment more on some of these other comparisons later.

[Guest Rob Naylor]

Dustin Rhodes or Shiro Koshinaka?

 

Haven't seen enought Shiro. Last time I saw him (the 80's!) he was goddamn awesome though. I'm a huge Dustin mark too.

 

Raven or Sandman?

Raven, but I think he's overrated as hell too.

 

Abdullah the Butcher or Bruiser Brody?

Abby went up for Manny's suplex. So Abby. But I dig Brody too.

 

Shane Douglas or Eddie Gilbert?

Gilbert by far. I think Douglas fucking sucked. Some really awesome promos in the summer of 1994, but after that, it was same old shit, different day/year with the guy. And in the ring, he just really didn't do anything to keep me interested. Love the Scorp match though.

 

Sid or Kevin Nash?

Sid Vicious. True story, I'd take both Sid and Nash over Flair as far as wrestlers I enjoy watching more.

 

Jim Powers or Paul Roma?

Paul Roma is goddamn awesome. Sucks he was held down, as Power and Glory was an incredible tag team and he and Orndorff stole soooo many WCW TV worldwide shows in late 94/early 95... Roma was at his peak in 95, I wonder what happened?

 

Undertaker or Vader?

Vader. But not by much. Love Taker too.

 

Finlay or Bret Hart?

Bret, with ease for me.

 

Yoshiaki Fujiwara or Volk Han?

Don't dig "worked shoot" style, but I'll go Fujiwara, just cause I think his armbar is the coolest finish ever and that Maxx Payne under Bill Watts would have won the WCW title with it, the way Watts protected it. Goddamn Mark Madden...

 

MX vs. RnR Express or MX vs. Fantastics?

Midnight's in a walk. I love the Fantastics though. Rogers and Fulton didn't have Morton's ability to engage a crowd emotionally, but I really dug their highspots. And I don't care for Robert Gibson.

 

Rick Martel or Tito Santana?

Tito. Tito was underrated as hell. The Elevator.

 

Butch Reed or Ron Simmons?

Ron Simmons. Great punches, powerslam, legdrop and shoulder tackle. Reed always underwhelmed me, even after the Mid South set, although I loved the Murdoch house show match).

 

Edge or Christian.

Edge in a walk.

 

Stan Hansen or Steve Williams?

Hansen's like my favorite wrestler ever. I'd pick him over ANYONE ever in wrestling except Terry Gordy or Manny Fernandez.

 

Harley Race or Genichiro Tenryu?

 

I love Harley Race. He is the king of pacing a match. I dig Tenryu too, but Race is in a very select class of wrestlers I always love watching, so he wins.

 

Dan Spivey or Jimmy Snuka?

 

I'll be alone on this too I'll bet, but I think Spivey was awesome. From 88 when he went to Puerto Rico to about 93, he was great. Great left hand right hands, would bump his ass off, threw all kinds of cool suplexes and could even bust out the turn around top rope elbow drop on occassion. Oh and Waylon Mercy was a blast to watch.

[MJH]

Necro or Brody

 

I've seen maybe half a dozen Necro matches and never in any of them thought he looked more than a backyarder with a high pain threshold kinda like those CZW guys. He just got a cult following. More than any "cult following" in wrestling I don't get Necro *at all* and no, "looking like a backyarder" doesn't sell his gimmick better. Foley sure didn't move around the ring with grace but he always looked trained to me. So even though I'm not much of a Brody fan, I have to go with him.

 

Sid or Kevin Nash

 

Just about everyone got better matches out of Nash than they did Sid.

 

Takada or Fujinami

 

I really like Fujinami but I'd argue Takada as the best New Japan-produced wrestler ever, more than likely, so he gets my vote.

 

Danielson or Dynamite

 

"Dynamite's stuff doesn't hold up in terms of structure and whatever else" is an argument I get, and for the most part generally agree with. But I've never been sold on Bryan as a "story-teller" (or whatever) either. really the best thing about Danielson is his execution, which Dynamite wins and matwork, which Bryan wins.... BUT, the best "mat/chain wrestling" match either was involved in is Dynamite vs. Marty Jones (which Dynamite makes). It's a lot closer than "Oh but Dynamite's stuff doesn't hold up".

 

Certainly Dynamite was more special, spectacular and original. Maybe Rocco was doing a lot of those bumps first but, come on, I like Rocco but Dynamite did those bumps twice as fast and far bigger. Sure, it cost him, and he was an asshole, which has become a point against him as a worker now along with inspiring Benoit, both of which I find embarassing as arguments.

 

If Danielson gets over and becomes a player in the WWE that'll probably swing it, but, I'm favouring Dynamite right now since he had better presence and more "major league" for lack of a better term. Danielson's toured Japan numerous times and I've never seen or heard of him getting over to near the degree Dynamite did, ditto I can't see right now him becoming as popular as the Bulldogs were in the WWF/E. It sounds like a crappy argument to have as the difference, but until I see something that sells me on Danielson as a great story-teller or structure or whatever (the things people argue against Dynamite) I'm taking the guy who did most of Danielson's strengths better than him and always felt a much bigger deal. Don't you think if Dynamtie came around 20 years later (around when Bryan first broke through) he'd similarly be an indy darling?

 

Hansen or Doc

 

... is a no-brainer as much as I love Doc.

 

Hansen or Han

 

... isn't quite so straight forward. Hansen's "great resurrgence" of 1993 is overrated to a fair degree. I mean the Kobashi matches are/were fantastic, but they were also perfect opponents and Kenta was fairly elite by that point. Han's only real comparison is Tamura (in which I'd argue Volk as the better and certainly the leader), and within their style they're of a comparable level. I'd take the Hansen/Kobashi matches - as one of the biggest Volk fans around - but how often was Volk in with similarly great wrestlers as opposed to Hansen? Regardless of how much it may or may not swing your vote it's an important part of the argument either way. Hansen vs. Misawa wasn't as good a fit, and Misawa's 9/93 and 7/94 matches with Doc are much better, I'd say, than any he had with Stan. Hansen vs. Jumbo's the same - Jumbo got a better match out of Kerry Von Erich.

 

Sure Hansen has some strong "carries" (going from memory) but so does Han. Han was also more blatantly gifted and natural. The likelihood as I see it is Han was probably better (within the RINGS style) at his peak than Hansen was in All Japan. BUT all that being said, I mean you'd still probably have to take Stan for the obvious variety of reasons like longetivity and having more matches over the course of 2/3 tours than Volk did his entire career being clearly a strong worker for much of it...

[Dylan Waco]

Dustin Rhodes or Shiro Koshinaka?

 

Been a long time since I watched Kosh and I just watched a shitload of Dustin, but really I can't think of any major Kosh performances that are as strong on as many levels as stuff like Dustin v. Vader, Dustin v. Buck, Dustin v. Austin or even something modern like Dustin v. Sheamus. All around Dustin is just better.

 

Raven or Sandman?

 

Sandman. Sandman is not a tremendous worker, but there was a period where he was clearly a good worker and I don't just mean garbage style either. Guy lived his gimmick, had a reckless style to be sure, but had a unique athletic demeanor in spite of this. He was shockingly good off the hot tag and there are some unreal selling performances by him even as late as his TNA run that almost make you care about otherwise terrible matches. He was never as disappointing as Levy who seemed to constantly get decent opportunities and blow them, whereas Sandman was often stuck in junk scenarios and made the most of them. Mastered the gimmicky garbage brawl in a way that made them look credible, whereas Raven popularized bullshit like the drop toehold/chair spot. Levy's probably got more good matches, but I'm not sure he's got more good performances and I'd take Hak v. Bigelow over pretty much anything Raven has done sans maybe Jarrett v. Raven (which was a total Jarrett carry job).

 

Abdullah the Butcher or Bruiser Brody?

 

Abby is better. More entertaining and giving in the ring.

 

Shane Douglas or Eddie Gilbert?

 

Shane is underrated in a way. I was shocked out how good a babyface he was in my WCW rewatching. His ECW run really isn't horrible, but he is so fat and uninteresting during most of it while working a "technical" gimmick that it just makes you want to barf. Eddie was a much better brawler and really an excellent, excellent babyface in 88/89 so I would go with Gilbert.

 

Sid or Kevin Nash?

 

I'd rather watch Sid, but I think Nash is more likely to have a good match.

 

Jim Powers or Paul Roma?

 

I like Powers dropkick more than anything Roma could do.

 

Undertaker or Vader?

 

I think if you are looking at best work v. best work and peak match v. peak match it's Vader. But if you are looking at mechanics and versatility I think it's Taker. Taker has a general match outline and formula now, but he plugs people into that in ways that go beyond just standard Taker stuff. Vader never really did. I can't imagine Vader having the matches with Angle that Taker did or even the matches with Bret that Taker did. On the other hand I'm not going to say that Vader should be viewed poorly because he worked to his strengths and new what he was capable of. Overall I'd say Vader.

 

Finlay or Bret Hart?

 

Already touched on this elsewhere.

 

Yoshiaki Fujiwara or Volk Han?

 

I like both, but I think Fujiwara is much more compelling in the sense that I get excited about seeing more of his stuff or rewatching things of his and I have no such excitement with Han.

 

MX vs. RnR Express or MX vs. Fantastics?

 

Express v. Express.

 

Rick Martel or Tito Santana?

 

Tito was probably a hair better. Hard to explain, but he seemed more natural in the ring than Martel. I also think he was a babyface that could work a blood feud, whereas Martel was never a babyface I could buy in a blood feud. Martel MIGHT have had slightly better mechanics move-to-move, counter-to-counter, but Martel is a guy that you almost feel disappointed by as if he never reached his potential. Tito is a guy that feels like a lost worker. Both underacheivers but for different reasons.

 

Butch Reed or Ron Simmons?

 

I love Simmons, but what is the argument for him in this comparison? Reed was great in a way that Simmons never really approached being.

 

Edge or Christian Cage?

 

Christian's always been better. Better at match structure, better bumper, better seller, moves better around the ring, et. He even has better offense and offense is his weakest point. Edge has been in matches that are higher profile and arguably better because of booking. He had a monster performance against Hardy in 05, but he's never reached that height before or sense and there is no reason to think he ever will again. Christian has never looked that good, but I can't imagine Edge working matches as smart and well laid as Christian v. Ryder or Christian v. Swagger. It's also worth remembering that Christian was good more often than not during his TNA run which is where good workers go to suck. Not anything classic, but I remember liking the Kaz match, some of his tag work, stuff v. Sting, et. I think Edge would be horribly exposed in TNA. Edge has been going down hill since the TLC match with Cena and I doubt he'll ever recover. Christian only gets better.

 

 

Karl Gotch or Lou Thesz?

 

Not enough footage to be fair. The composites just aren't enough.

 

Nobuhiko Takada or Tatsumi Fujinami?

 

I like Fujinami better, but at this point Fujinami is one of my favorite wrestlers ever. He's one of the few NJPW guys who I really feel holds upon multiple levels. Great junior, great heay hitter when it called for, liked his seling, et. I'm not as down on Takada as some people in this thread are, but I've never liked a Takada match as much as Fujinami v. Maeda or Fujinami v. DK and I thought Fujinami was the best wrestler in both of those matches.

 

Volk Han or Stan Hansen?

 

I'd rather watch Hansen, but this is an oddball comparison.

 

Harley Race or Genichiro Tenryu?

 

I think Tenryu wrestles a style that translates better. For old, grumpy, rugged, longshoreman types Race actually DOESN"T fit the part in a lot of ways despite having the look. This is not a knock on Race and I'm not sure I buy the "Race was Kurt Angle" point that tomk or Phil had going on a while back, but there is definitely a disconnect between Race's look and what Race does. No such problem with Tenryu so I guess I'd take Tenryu even if I think Harley is really impressive.

 

Dan Spivey or Jimmy Snuka?

 

Both largely sucked, but Snuka was charismatic so I'll take Jimmy.

[Dylan Waco]

PG-13 or Doom?

[Tim Evans]

Dustin Rhodes or Shiro Koshinaka?

 

Haven't seen much of Shiro in his prime so I got to go with Dustin here.

 

Raven or Sandman?

- This is kinda hard. I liked Scotty the body in Portland, memphis and WCW but since about 98 he's really sucked. I also liked Sandman in 96 and his wwe run wasn't half bad. I'll probably go Raven by a hair.

 

 

Abdullah the Butcher or Bruiser Brody

- I like brody more than most here but I'll go Abby. Although it's sad to see him these days when he can't even get in the ring.

 

 

Shane Douglas or Eddie Gilbert?

- Without a doubt Eddie Gilbert. When I was younger I really liked Shane but as I get older, I see how bad he really was. Especially in ECW. Getting the Memphis and Mid South DVDVR sets really has shown me that Eddie was one of the best guys ever booking wise. His feud with Tommy Rich is better than anything Douglas has ever done.

 

 

Sid or Kevin Nash?

- Sid easily. Even when he was have shitty matches in WCW 2000 he was at least enjoyable. I've seen and Jingus can attest to this a Thunder from 2000 with 3 different Sid matches and all of them were at least not boring. Nash is a better talker but Sid is more entertaining.

 

 

Jim Powers or Paul Roma?

- I guess I'll have to go Roma as I can't really think of anything Powers has ever done.

 

 

Undertaker or Vader?

- Ah man this is tough. For peak years, I'll go vader but overall, I think it's Taker. I watched a lot of Vader matches for the WCW poll and while he's had some great matches(Sting, Flair, etc) some of his most pimped matches really don't hold up for me(The Cactus series). I can't think of a Vader match that was better than Taker/HBK from Mania 25.

 

 

MX vs. RnR Express or MX vs. Fantastics?

- MX vs Fantastics. I never really could get into the Condrey/Eaton version of the Midnight Express as much as I did the Lane/Eaton version.

 

PG-13 or Doom?

- PG 13 no contest. As i've mentioned elsewhere, I really didn't like Doom at all. They had some good matches but that was with great teams like the Steiners and the Horsemen. PG-13's matches with Rich/Gilbert and the Heavenly Bodies are better than those matches DOOM had.

[Dylan Waco]

Wait Foley v. Vader doesn't hold up, but Flair v. Vader does? Really? I don't even think THAT highly of Foley v. Vader, but I can't see any argument for those matches aging more poorly than Ric v. Vader.

[jdw]

Hansen's "great resurrgence" of 1993 is overrated to a fair degree. I mean the Kobashi matches are/were fantastic, but they were also perfect opponents and Kenta was fairly elite by that point. Han's only real comparison is Tamura (in which I'd argue Volk as the better and certainly the leader), and within their style they're of a comparable level. I'd take the Hansen/Kobashi matches - as one of the biggest Volk fans around - but how often was Volk in with similarly great wrestlers as opposed to Hansen? Regardless of how much it may or may not swing your vote it's an important part of the argument either way. Hansen vs. Misawa wasn't as good a fit, and Misawa's 9/93 and 7/94 matches with Doc are much better, I'd say, than any he had with Stan. Hansen vs. Jumbo's the same - Jumbo got a better match out of Kerry Von Erich.

 

Sure Hansen has some strong "carries" (going from memory) but so does Han. Han was also more blatantly gifted and natural. The likelihood as I see it is Han was probably better (within the RINGS style) at his peak than Hansen was in All Japan. BUT all that being said, I mean you'd still probably have to take Stan for the obvious variety of reasons like longetivity and having more matches over the course of 2/3 tours than Volk did his entire career being clearly a strong worker for much of it...

Not going to knock Han, and I agree with Dylan that this is an oddball comp: it's really hard to draw a parallel between the two. "Great Working #1 Gaijin In A Promotion" is the concept... I guess. There might be a good, long piece in that looking at how they played their roles in their respective long term promotions. Hansen's role did change and evolve over the years.

 

But I think Hansen's 1993 is getting shorted if it's just about his Kobashi matches.

 

Pretty much anytime he was in the ring with Kawada that year was electric, starting with the chair shot in the goofy battleroyal opening the years. Not focusing everything on the Budokan singles, but even their tags be they early series TV tapings or their bigger tags. Stuff like Kawada & Kobashi vs Hansen & Van Dam showed a green, goofy and not very good RVD... but if Hansen and Kawada were against each other, there was a buzz. Not to mention Stan working with Kobashi in it. The two Kawada & Taue vs Hansen & Dibiase matches were painful when Ted was in, but when Hansen was in especially against Kawada, it was buzz time as they tore into each other. Sadly the feud didn't have a blow off that year, but they brought the hate.

 

The second Hansen vs Misawa, and the Hansen vs Misawa Carny Final weren't very good. But the Carny League match and the first Triple Crown match between the two were really solid, good matches. They worked together well in the Tag League match, and as much as I liked Baba and Kobashi's performances in the match, Stan was pretty exceptional as well in it.

 

He even had a decent singles match with Taue.

 

If he had a negative in the year it was that he didn't really have an acceptable tag team partner to step up into the tag title hunt. Spivey washed out in 1992. They tried Ace with Hansen, and it just wasn't a good fit. They brought Ted back, and it was clear from the first match that the style passed Ted by. If one thought it was rust in the first match, it was clear on the next series in the six man tags and the rematch. In a sense we're lucky Ted went down early in the tag league because it gave us the Hansen-Baba team and the second most memorable match of the tag league.

 

There are some clunkers in the year, such as two of the four Misawa singles matches. But the two delivered in one of Misawa's key early TC defenses to seal Misawa as The Man since Jumbo wasn't around to do it. And on a weekly basis of TV, you're were likely to get a good performance out of Stan in 1993 even if the rest of the match wasn't quite up to his performance.

 

John

[Guest DietSoda]

80's Flair or 80's Lawler?

[ohtani's jacket]

Sting's '92-93 is getting under sold. There was more to Sting in those years than the Vader feud and the Cactus match. Even from '94-96 he was capable of having fun TV matches. Has Cena ever shown as much as Sting did in the various Regal matches? I don't wanna get into a Cena argument but that guy works in a heavily controlled environment. Cena pimping always reminds me of Rock pimping.

 

I don't buy the Volk didn't have opponents argument. Volk had Kosaka and Tamura, two of the better shoot style workers Japan ever produced, and a bunch of fiery young natives like Yamamoto and Nagai. Sure, he had to work with a bunch of choads, but that's part of shoot style. I'm super high on Volk at the moment because I just watched a match against Yamamoto that had me marking out more than I've done in about five years, but the point I wanna make is that shoot style's not a style where you fuck around until it's time to have your latest shitty opus. Every performance counts. Anyway, Volk was an untouchable genius like Fujiwara, Satanico or Navarro. Dunno if he was a better worker than Hansen because Hansen worked pro-style, but Volk was incredible. It really is touch and go between him and Fujiwara.

 

Oh, and there wasn't great mat wrestling in that Jones/Dynamite match nor was it all Dynamite. Dynamite put in an awesome heel performance in that match, but it was Marty Jones. Nobody delivers like Marty Jones in WoS. Cherry picking one DK match from WoS is a bit cheeky. He had some crap performances in England.

[Death From Above]

No discussion about Dynamite Kid can happen without this coming instantly to mind for me:

 

 

Not enough "baby"s I say.

[Guest DietSoda]

The 2/86 and 8/86 handhelds from Cornette's new DVD will help even up the MX vs RnR strength of matches. I need to re-watch the MX/Fantastics World Class matches. Right now I would put the MX v RnR as being overall better but the best match is the Clash I MX/Fantastics.

You guys are making me want to buy all of this stuff. Where can I get Cornettes new DVD? Is this the same one Bix is talking about when he mentioned the MX rarities set?

[Bix]

The 2/86 and 8/86 handhelds from Cornette's new DVD will help even up the MX vs RnR strength of matches. I need to re-watch the MX/Fantastics World Class matches. Right now I would put the MX v RnR as being overall better but the best match is the Clash I MX/Fantastics.

You guys are making me want to buy all of this stuff. Where can I get Cornettes new DVD? Is this the same one Bix is talking about when he mentioned the MX rarities set?

 

Yes.

[El-P]

Owen Hart vs Brian Pillman

 

Two stampede guys who died early, with great work early on their respective careers.

[Resident Evil]

Owen Hart vs Brian Pillman

 

Two stampede guys who died early, with great work early on their respective careers.

Owen but man I love Pillman's work too as evident by me putting a lot of his matches in the smarkschoice poll. He was one of my fav all time wrestlers.

 

If Pillman never got hurt as bad as he did this would be an even more interesting comparison. Pillman was constantly hurt with injuries in Stampede and even by the time he got to WCW I think it hurt his atheltic abilities. As awesome as he was than, he could move even better in Stampede. And than in WCW, the injuries kept on piling up and you could tell there was a gradual decline over the years in what he could do in the ring. A terrific wrestler though who was made to be a babyface that everyone could get behind. Yes, everyone loves the loose cannon gimmick but Pillman was still better as a babyface.

[Dylan Waco]

Owen was a better natural athlete, but I'm not sure he ever had a more impressive run than Pillman did from 89-92. He MIGHT have, but it's been a while since I saw early Owen and I think 94 was as much Bret as it was him.

[Bix]

Pillman was probably more consistent until the accident. Pillman seemed to be a lot better while in booking limbo than Owen was, with stuff like the Wright and Badd matches in '95 which were a hell of a lot better than anyone would have expected, and he was always dependable for a good match during post-Blondes, pre-California Brian run where he was going someplace worse than nowhere. I don't know if Owen has anything comparable other than maybe the Mark Henry match while he was stuck losing to HHH most of the time.

[ohtani's jacket]

OK, so I've been watching a ton of Sano's worked shoots lately and the guy is completely awesome, which leds to me to the question -- is Sano one of the all-time great Japanese workers?