Boondocks Kernoodle Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 All joking aside, we know from the book what an incredible horn dog Bret is. He's saying shit about Melina that no rational person, especially one who has seen and taken part in so many incredible matches, could possibly believe. It's clear that Bret has decided to compromise all his integrity, risk further damaging his brain, and perhaps harm his legacy with the wrestling fans, all in an epic quest to hit that. And I find that admirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 From his appearance on european tours, Bret looks miserable. I guess he does lust for a spot under the lights again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Bret may have forgiven Montreal, but was that really more bitter than the circumstances around Owen's death? Â I don't give a shit what the legal conclusion of that was, for me I find him getting past that a lot more remarkable. It's possible I've forgotten a lot of the details of how that all played out because it's been years since I've visited any of it, but I find Bret going back to work for Vince after that a lot more shocking than the Montreal issue, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Based on his book - which is well written and a great read - I'm not sure Bret was ever more troubled by Owen's death than he was by Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I wouldn't say that. Trying to get control of his photo and video rights via the wrongful death suit was incredibly baffling and is a major mark against him in that regard, but I don't think there's any other reason to say that. Â Keep in mind that the vast majority of the book is written as an indication of his POV at the time from his audio journal. The Bret of 1999 was a lot more jaded than the Bret of 1997. Also, he doesn't seem to realize quite how negligent the WWF/Vince was (or chose not to write about it). I don't recall anything about the reasoing for locking carabiner rig being abandoned for the snap shackle in his book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 First Mick Foley now Bret Hart, was is it about Melina that old wrestlers like? Who's next, Bruno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 First Mick Foley now Bret Hart, was is it about Melina that old wrestlers like? Â Off the top of my head, I'd say this: Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 You mean, her charisma ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Speaking of Owen, is this the year WWE induct him and Stu into the Hall Of Fame? It would make sense with Bret back in the company fold and WWE apparently working on a Hart family DVD. If so, things could get a bit messy with Martha Hart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 My guess is they induct the Hart Family as a whole, similar to them inducting the Von Erichs. Â And I agree with Bix that he was more jaded in '99 than in '97. Asking Vince for his video footage seems like "wrong place, wrong time" but part of me thinks that Bret really wanted to move on and get out of wrestling and take some memories with him, and Owen's death may have affected that. It's not like people don't move to different subjects of discussion at funerals to ease grief and such. Look at the much-mentioned conversation between Hogan and Jericho about Jericho jumping ship at the time. Â Much of Bret's public comments about Montreal feel more like self-publicity than genuine grief. It's at least partly him making himself to be King Lear or some other tragic hero, and heck, let's make a video about it, and make some bucks off of said "tragic hero" character screwed over by the evil boss. Owen's death, on the other hand, is a very different animal. Â Also, Boondocks' last post is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I wasn't talking about the funeral discussion (where he was instructed to NOT talk about the accident). I was talking about how he tried to get Martha to have her lawyers fight for the photo/video rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I wasn't talking about the funeral discussion (where he was instructed to NOT talk about the accident). I was talking about how he tried to get Martha to have her lawyers fight for the photo/video rights. Wow. Did not know about that part. Totally different, then, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004Holds Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I wasn't talking about the funeral discussion (where he was instructed to NOT talk about the accident). I was talking about how he tried to get Martha to have her lawyers fight for the photo/video rights. Wow. Did not know about that part. Totally different, then, yes. Â Wasn't that during the whole meeting with Vince in the park? I thought that was on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 That was first, but not what I was talking about. When he talked to Martha about the settlement, he asked if her lawyers were able to do anything about the photos and footage, and she said that her lawyers told her it wasn't important enough to bring up, meaning that Bret had brought it up to her or her lawyers before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John O'Neill Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is the first wrestling forum where people have actually called Bret on his bullshit. After years of people saying, "Bret has too much integrity to go back there", it's nice to read a forum where people are actually questioning how real Bret is. By that I mean, Bret's made himself into a martyr for years saying anytime the WWE played off his Montreal finish it diminished what happened. He also talked about how he could never go back after what they did, and that making a storyline of such a painful real incident would be insulting. Â This is the first place I've been to where people are actually saying stuff like, "He made himself out to be like King Lear" etc. And to be honest it's nice to see people ask these questions. Â Like El-P, Bret was my favourite wrestler when I first followed wrestling. But despite that, I have to say he has a strange following of fans who legitimately see him as a real life hero with integrity. How anybody can view him in that light befuddles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have to say he has a strange following of fans who legitimately see him as a real life hero with integrity. How anybody can view him in that light befuddles me.He was the first top babyface in national era WWF whose gimmick was "himself," he was the guy chosen to be the steroid-free champion, he got pushed out of the company and into Montreal, his brother was killed by WWE's negligence (though most fans don't know quite how negligent they were), his family was publicly torn apart by the fallout, his career was ended in part because nobody at WCW thought to do anything when he said he had a concussion (and somehow didn't develop an ulcer from gulping Advil the way he was), he had a stroke from hitting his head as the post concussion syndrome seemed like it was clearing, etc. He's not a hero but I can see why someone who would see a wrestler as a hero would latch on to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I think Bret having a following of fans who believes in him as a real life hero is as much of a myth as him actually being a real life hero. No one anywhere I've seen besides a few fans here or there has painted Bret as a saint or as a martyr. On a larger scale, he's been portrayed as a me-first egomaniac who can't bear seeing his legacy tarnished. This comes from one of his biggest fans of his career. Now on to this business, he isn't the first to "sell out" for a paycheck nor will he be the last. This is professional wrestling, a business full of self centered men who partakes/partook in high school dramatic bullshit all their lives, why anyone can be surprised or indignant about it is beyond me. Also, to lend my two cents, I'm guessing Bret saw this as not only an opportunity to revive/preserve his legacy, but I'm pretty sure he'd like the satisfaction of saying that his return was more important on January 4 and beyond than a certain orange goblin. You know, the one who has spent the later years belittling him (remember he wouldn't lose to him at King of the Ring, pretty sure the guy isn't over that). Â That said, I will be excited to tune in because this is Bret "The Hitman" Hart making himself a storyline character for the first time in 10 years, and it's not like he hasn't provided enough ammo to tarnish my fond memories of him, but I am not the kind of person to let a three month stint do that to me. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 So, is Bruno Vince's last holdout? Warrior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I think Bret having a following of fans who believes in him as a real life hero is as much of a myth as him actually being a real life hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 A large part of his 'hero' status is because he has become a classic Shakespearean tragic figure. His appeal was that we really got to 'know' him as a result of the way he was pushed, the hard-working, honorable everyman champion who wasn't a cartoon; we got to know his parents, his sister, his brothers, his brothers-in-law, his home, and then in that classic literary narrative tradition the very business he loved turned against him, forced him out of his promotion, killed his brother, destroyed his marriage, ended his career prematurely. The reality was not quite as clear cut, as his own book readily admits - The Harts had a completely fucked-up and no way 'normal' family environment that contributed to the drug addicitions, spousal abuse, broken families etc...But looking at the final moments of the Calgary Stampede PPV and the celebrations, and then seeing what became of it all only 3 years later is quite a powerful image for the fans who'll disregard the seedier aspects, and regardless of the cynicism, hypocisy and motivations of his return, it is far outweighed by the empathy for Bret. Ofcourse he is not a real-life 'hero', but it is easy to see why he can be viewed that way by many via the warped perspective of pro wrestling. I'll be watching his return and genuinely hope it goes well for him so he can get some closure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I think Bret having a following of fans who believes in him as a real life hero is as much of a myth as him actually being a real life hero. Â Awesome! Reminds me of a house show I went to in September and being not too far from a Superstar Graham lookalike (sans roids anyway) wearing a Jack Daniels T-shirt who kept muttering, "Man, I hate CM Punk..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I admitted that there were "a few fans here or there" that still believed that, but I'm pretty sure 90% or better of his fans knows the jig is up on that portrayal. Posting one video (that I can't view right now) doesn't exactly refute that point. Â And yes I know he was portrayed that way... in 1997-1999. However I refer to 2009 fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I was just looking for an excuse to post that clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Is the photos and video thing the reason why Martha said in her book that her and Bret were no longer friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Don't know. Bret seemed more resentful that she wouldn't tell him the settlement amount even though it was leaked immediately, didn't give an explanation for why the accident happened ("He just fell"), and then blasted the whole family publicly even though a decent chunk of them was on her side. Her post-settlement press conference was probably what did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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