Dave Meltzer stuff

[Cox]

From this week's Observer, about Bruno's Wrestlemania payoff:

 

But when he inked the deal, ostensibly to get him to be in the Hall of Fame, the deal was closer to a WrestleMania top star payoff (not top star like Rock, Cena or Lesnar as it’s not anything like seven figures).

So he's getting a Wrestlemania top star payoff, but not getting a Wrestlemania top star payoff? C'mon Dave, clear language. Just word it as, "The deal Bruno inked is at a CM Punk/Randy Orton level Wrestlemania payoff" and that makes sense.

[KrisZ]

Dave talking about Rousey made me nauseous

[Phil Schneider]

What did he say?

[jdw]

From this week's Observer, about Bruno's Wrestlemania payoff:

 

But when he inked the deal, ostensibly to get him to be in the Hall of Fame, the deal was closer to a WrestleMania top star payoff (not top star like Rock, Cena or Lesnar as it’s not anything like seven figures).

So he's getting a Wrestlemania top star payoff, but not getting a Wrestlemania top star payoff? C'mon Dave, clear language. Just word it as, "The deal Bruno inked is at a CM Punk/Randy Orton level Wrestlemania payoff" and that makes sense.

And is it at Undertaker / Trip "top star" level?

 

Just a mess.

 

John

[KrisZ]

What did he say?

He was basically agreeing with her comparing her plight to Hank Aaron's as he was breaking Babe Ruth's homerun record.

[Bix]

What did he say?

He was basically agreeing with her comparing her plight to Hank Aaron's as he was breaking Babe Ruth's homerun record.

 

I don't think she made that comparison; Dave did on his own.

[KrisZ]

Yeah reading it in context yeah you are right and that kinda makes it worse.

 

Internet trolls are not angry bigots from 1973-74.

[jdw]

Rousey isn't Hank Aaron. Good lord... next he'll be saying she's the Jackie Robinson of UFC.

 

John

[WingedEagle]

Not even worth dignifying that kind of nonsense with a response. Hyperbole is silly.

[J.Q. Murder]

Is this what's causing the nauseousness.

 

In episode two of UFC Prime Time building up the fight, Rousey for the first time noted this hatred, ugliness that borders on the response Hank Aaron got in another generation for being a black man about to beat a legendary white icon's home run record. Dana White yesterday in England acknowledged it existed, but believed it was starting to turn around.

 

With Aaron, it was tens of thousands of racist letters. Today, with social media, even if the numbers aren't anywhere near as big because the issue pales in comparison as a story, they are harder to escape and ignore.

I don't see the problem comparing the types of abuse they were both subjected to, it's comparing misogyny to racism not like it's an apples to... Hank Aaron type of thing. He even says the issue pales in comparison, not sure what's in there to get worked up about.

 

Unless he said in the audio that Ronda is literally the Hank Aaron of our times and he went about listing the ways in which they were similar.

[cabinboy454]

Is this what's causing the nauseousness.

 

In episode two of UFC Prime Time building up the fight, Rousey for the first time noted this hatred, ugliness that borders on the response Hank Aaron got in another generation for being a black man about to beat a legendary white icon's home run record. Dana White yesterday in England acknowledged it existed, but believed it was starting to turn around.

 

With Aaron, it was tens of thousands of racist letters. Today, with social media, even if the numbers aren't anywhere near as big because the issue pales in comparison as a story, they are harder to escape and ignore.

I don't see the problem comparing the types of abuse they were both subjected to, it's comparing misogyny to racism not like it's an apples to... Hank Aaron type of thing. He even says the issue pales in comparison, not sure what's in there to get worked up about.

 

Unless he said in the audio that Ronda is literally the Hank Aaron of our times and he went about listing the ways in which they were similar.

 

Aaron received multiple death threats, had to hire a bodyguard, and there was an attempt to kidnap his daughter. You cannot compare what he went through to trolls on internet message boards.

[MJH]

No... but this is also 2013, and shocking as it is that that would happen only 40 years ago, and whilst, even more unfortunately, there're still some idiots out there who'd react in a similar way today, the idea that women competing in a sport would be any kind of issue outside of those same small pockets is perhaps even more depressing simply because 1974 was a time much more conscious of that sort of thing and we've (supposedly) moved on and bettered ourselves since then. Women's sports might not have near the publicity, or fame, or money, or whatever, as male sports, and the reasons for that aren't all nearly as sexist as some feminist commentators would suggest (Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce wouldn't've stood a chance against Usain Bolt, y'know), but no one's offended at the existence of the 100m women's, or WNBA or whatever either... "But women can't punch each other in the face!", I mean, y'know...

[J.Q. Murder]

Is this what's causing the nauseousness.

 

In episode two of UFC Prime Time building up the fight, Rousey for the first time noted this hatred, ugliness that borders on the response Hank Aaron got in another generation for being a black man about to beat a legendary white icon's home run record. Dana White yesterday in England acknowledged it existed, but believed it was starting to turn around.

 

With Aaron, it was tens of thousands of racist letters. Today, with social media, even if the numbers aren't anywhere near as big because the issue pales in comparison as a story, they are harder to escape and ignore.

I don't see the problem comparing the types of abuse they were both subjected to, it's comparing misogyny to racism not like it's an apples to... Hank Aaron type of thing. He even says the issue pales in comparison, not sure what's in there to get worked up about.

 

Unless he said in the audio that Ronda is literally the Hank Aaron of our times and he went about listing the ways in which they were similar.

 

Aaron received multiple death threats, had to hire a bodyguard, and there was an attempt to kidnap his daughter. You cannot compare what he went through to trolls on internet message boards.

 

Well it seems to me that Dave was comparing the letters to message board stuff, there was stuff going around along the lines of ''I hope this bitch dies,'' ''She's a slut and it's good her father died,'' ''She better hope I never meet her''etc (edgy stuff huh). Are they just not on the same level as letters sent in the mail because they're online. Or because the threat of violence isn't made absolutely clear. Are we supposed to just write them off because they're on a message board and it's unlikely that anyone would actually harm her. And I know there's nowhere near the same amount, but it seems easy to compare the types of abuse. Because no male would ever get that sort of thing in MMA, just like no white male would've got death threats for breaking a baseball record. I am almost sure that these same cretins would be sending letters to Hank Aaron if they were kicking around back then.

 

And again I'm not comparing what they are doing for their respective sports, or a national debate or the amount of stuff they had to go through, beacuse Aaron had it worse etc, but I think it's alright to say that both situations are shitty without having to add a footnote that Aaron's was shittier. Because it is kind of implied.

[Death From Above]

Death threats on the internet still count, legally.

 

Not to get too deep into this particular mire, but just saying.

[Dooley]

Because no male would ever get that sort of thing in MMA

Except every fighter before every event. The internet's a cesspool. The Rousey stuff is only different if you're looking to make a narrative of it.

[J.Q. Murder]

Because no male would ever get that sort of thing in MMA

Except every fighter before every event. The internet's a cesspool. The Rousey stuff is only different if you're looking to make a narrative of it.

 

Hold on, show me one post where someone says that a fighter should not be in the company... because he's a male. Show me a post where someone says they would like to rape a male fighter. Show me a post where they say that if they meet a male fighter they'll break his nose (that might be more common, they are not saying they'd punch him because of his gender though). Show me a post where someone says they'd grab a male fighters ass if they saw him on the street. Etc.

 

If you think that sort of comment is made about even a small minority, or like anyone, before a fight I don't know what to tell you. It's easy for me to see the difference anyway, not sure how that is ''making a narrative of it'' or what my agenda would be in doing so.

[Dooley]

Hold on, show me one post where someone says that a fighter should not be in the company... because he's a male. Show me a post where someone says they would like to rape a male fighter. Show me a post where they say that if they meet a male fighter they'll break his nose (that might be more common, they are not saying they'd punch him because of his gender though). Show me a post where someone says they'd grab a male fighters ass if they saw him on the street. Etc.

Go to any MMA message board. Look at any twitter account with a handle like "BROCKUFC4EVA666" or similar bullshit. You'll see plenty of cringe-worthy stuff. Throw a rock through any corner of cyberspace and you'll hit at least a dozen douchebags. That's just the way it is.

 

The sexist stuff is hardly localized to Rousey either. Been happening since Carano.

 

It's easy for me to see the difference anyway, not sure how that is ''making a narrative of it'' or what my agenda would be in doing so.

I was referring to Meltzer.

[goc]

I'd guess Danica Patrick has it far worse, but that's nothing compared to Hank Aaron either.

[Jingus]

I don't see the big deal. Although the situations are quite different, they're still comparable. Both Hank Aaron and Rhonda Rousey were trailblazers in their own ways (although one would think that Jackie Robinson might be a better example, or even Jack Johnson). Aaron had a much rougher go of it than Rousey did, but he also did it a lot earlier and in a sport which had much heavier mainstream media attention.

 

Rousey is essentially the first female MMA star who was both such a good fighter and such a good draw that even Dana finally accepted the idea of a women's division in UFC. Rousey is the figurehead for that moment, the poster girl; and as such, naturally she gets plenty of hate mail. That happens to every celebrity ever, to some extent; but of course the context of the typical "the first LITTLE GIRL in a real man's man sport like Ultimate Fighting?! Gawddammit, that's blasphemy!" sort of reaction makes the situation nastier than it would be if she were, say, a famous tennis champion.

 

And Meltzer himself did explicitly say that the two situations aren't remotely identical, that Aaron had an infinitely tougher time and whatnot, so it's not like he went out on a limb with this statement.

[Bix]

For reference:

 

1992

How come Lex Luger gained 20 pounds when he was getting ready to go from an organization with no steroid testing to an organization with the best steroid testing in the world?

8. Sting pinned Lex Luger in 13:01 to win the WCW title. Luger was so huge he looked like a member of a different species. If it hadn't have been confirmed already, this officially confirmed Luger's joining the WBF. They spent the first two minutes pretending they were doing a silent movie by standing there and doing nothing. Then they started working and the near 300 pound Luger blew up within two minutes.

2013

Rock was freaky big, 265 and cut almost like Strongman Jon Anderson, but much bigger than he was last year. That's where the table spot looked scary because he was so big and that thing gave way when he wasn't ready and looking like that increases the injury risk when something like that happens.

Rock was a lot bigger than at Mania. He moved like he was too bulky as compared with the surprising speed he had before.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

"Two other areas they are going to increase spending on are talent development, a division they woefully neglected for years that Vince McMahon never treated as that important, and that really derailed under John Laurinatis. But under HHH, this has become a major priority" (03-19-2013 Wrestling Observer).

 

I don't understand Vince McMahon sometimes. I know Ace has done a horrible job since taking over from Jim Ross, especially in the divas department where he felt that eye candy and not workers draw money, but Vince has no excuse. It's almost as if Vince can't create talent unless he's raiding other companies for their talent (ironically enough). HHH has sense, it seems.

[Loss]

For reference:

 

1992

How come Lex Luger gained 20 pounds when he was getting ready to go from an organization with no steroid testing to an organization with the best steroid testing in the world?

8. Sting pinned Lex Luger in 13:01 to win the WCW title. Luger was so huge he looked like a member of a different species. If it hadn't have been confirmed already, this officially confirmed Luger's joining the WBF. They spent the first two minutes pretending they were doing a silent movie by standing there and doing nothing. Then they started working and the near 300 pound Luger blew up within two minutes.

2013

Rock was freaky big, 265 and cut almost like Strongman Jon Anderson, but much bigger than he was last year. That's where the table spot looked scary because he was so big and that thing gave way when he wasn't ready and looking like that increases the injury risk when something like that happens.

Rock was a lot bigger than at Mania. He moved like he was too bulky as compared with the surprising speed he had before.

YES. I highly doubt that this time around, we'll get Dave editorializing about the message that pushing a guy on top with Rock's physique sends to the locker room, although it's no less true now than it was then.

[Slasher]

For reference:

 

1992

How come Lex Luger gained 20 pounds when he was getting ready to go from an organization with no steroid testing to an organization with the best steroid testing in the world?

8. Sting pinned Lex Luger in 13:01 to win the WCW title. Luger was so huge he looked like a member of a different species. If it hadn't have been confirmed already, this officially confirmed Luger's joining the WBF. They spent the first two minutes pretending they were doing a silent movie by standing there and doing nothing. Then they started working and the near 300 pound Luger blew up within two minutes.

2013

Rock was freaky big, 265 and cut almost like Strongman Jon Anderson, but much bigger than he was last year. That's where the table spot looked scary because he was so big and that thing gave way when he wasn't ready and looking like that increases the injury risk when something like that happens.

Rock was a lot bigger than at Mania. He moved like he was too bulky as compared with the surprising speed he had before.

YES. I highly doubt that this time around, we'll get Dave editorializing about the message that pushing a guy on top with Rock's physique sends to the locker room, although it's no less true now than it was then.

 

Loss, you do know there is a major difference between pushing a roided up Luger as a full timer and a roided up movie star part timer Rock, right?

[Matt D]

Luger wasn't a full timer at that point. I think Rock's wrestling more in 2013 than Luger did in 92.

 

Oh wait he had the Chono Tokyo Dome match too.

[Loss]

Loss, you do know there is a major difference between pushing a roided up Luger as a full timer and a roided up movie star part timer Rock, right?

The difference is that Dave likes The Rock and didn't like Luger.