Dave Meltzer stuff

[Dylan Waco]

I can't find where I posted it now, but I did the work on 93 WCW not that long ago. I want to say the average attendance was below 2000 a show, but not by much. I haven't done the work with ECW, but I would be very skeptical of the notion that 97 ECW drew 2000 on average per show. 98-00 is possible in that regard.

 

Also keep in mind the landscape was very different. WCW was national in 93, but wrestling was not hot, there was no internet, et.

[kjh]

ECW's annual attendance figures from prowrestlinghistory.com:

 

Year Shows Avg Att

1992 18 356

1993 19 540

1994 40 518

1995 52 690

1996 67 792

1997 98 1,027

1998 108 1,560

1999 135 1,401

2000 87 1,834

2001 3 1,667

[KrisZ]

Me & Dylan watched just about every ECW show from 1997-the end and as years the grew the attendances did as well but they were running very small buildings and I'd say those estimates given above sound about right on the average but their PPV shows did fairly well in bigger buildings.

[KrisZ]

Not that I agree with the poll results either but I think some of you are confusing booker for promoter. Heyman was a terrible businessman and promoter but he's absolutely fine as a booker.

What was his most successful angle? Who was the biggest star he created?

 

Heyman totally deserves credit for making Rob Van Dam. When push comes to shove he was the biggest star to come out of ECW in the end.

[sek69]

Listening to Dave on the latest Observer Radio, and it's absolutely mind boggling how he thinks that the idea that there might be a racist in the UFC fanbase is the most preposterous thing ever. The idea that it's 100% racist rednecks/bro dudes is obviously false, but the idea that it doesn't exist at all might be the most in-a-bubble thing ever.

[rovert]

Listening to Dave on the latest Observer Radio, and it's absolutely mind boggling how he thinks that the idea that there might be a racist in the UFC fanbase is the most preposterous thing ever. The idea that it's 100% racist rednecks/bro dudes is obviously false, but the idea that it doesn't exist at all might be the most in-a-bubble thing ever.

Dave is coming more from a live POV but he acknowledges that the internet is the internet when it comes to anonymous bile.

[evilclown]

Listening to Dave on the latest Observer Radio, and it's absolutely mind boggling how he thinks that the idea that there might be a racist in the UFC fanbase is the most preposterous thing ever. The idea that it's 100% racist rednecks/bro dudes is obviously false, but the idea that it doesn't exist at all might be the most in-a-bubble thing ever.

Dave is coming more from a live POV but he acknowledges that the internet is the internet when it comes to anonymous bile.

 

I was shocked by how unsophisticated Dave's views on race are. He was trying to argue with me on Twitter and legitimately thought that showing the UFC fan demographic included Hispanic and black fans somehow negated the possibility of racism.

 

Yes, he essentially made the "UFC has black friends" argument.

 

Dave also doesn't believe sports announcers use racially coded language. It was a serious wakeup call for anyone who thinks his expertise includes anything outside the realm of professional wrestling.

[Matt D]

He knows a lot about Roller Derby too!

[Guest Nell Santucci]

Dave Meltzer has Asperger Syndrome, which is why he takes every Devil Advocate's game from Bryan Alvarez so seriously. His lack of sense of humor gives that away too. Also, he spergs out a lot on Ric Flair, John Cena, and the Rock. Only some hyper Sperg Lord who plays with legos and trains could possibly have the wherewithal to write 50000 words per week for over 30 years.

 

His random Dan Severn column in a recent Observer made me laugh because without a clearly defined reason for having written that, I sort of brushed it off as peak Asperger Syndrome season.

 

With that said, I absolutely admire Dave for all his strengths and flaws.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

That post doesn't do Dave's autism any justice. I mean, the guy lacks a total theory of mind. He frequently talks over people and spergs out in a five-minute, stream of consciousness-like tangent whenever someone makes a trivial error on a date. Also, his lacking theory of mind was really demonstrated unintentionally in his "history" on Joint Promotions where he argues that the drawing power of the 60's was overrated because they didn't run Wembley Stadium like Bret Hart and Bulldog did back in *cough* 1993 (waiting for him to explode). It's an utterly grand sight to see and watch, and it's worth $10 per month to listen to him have meltdowns on his radio shows where he does a Raw recap.

 

People might not like his writing style, but I absolutely love it. It's beautiful in a modern art sense.

 

EDIT: He also spergs a lot about Bob Sapp and often brings him up without reason.

[Loss]

I used context clues to figure out what it meant, but sperg?

[Matt D]

I assume it's a verb form of asperger's like how the verb form for my ADHD is.. hey, now that they're supposedly doing medical tests on Sami Callihan, do people think they'll put him with Brodie Lee as Bray Wyatt's minions? Because that'd be pretty amazing.

[KrisZ]

Listening to Dave on the latest Observer Radio, and it's absolutely mind boggling how he thinks that the idea that there might be a racist in the UFC fanbase is the most preposterous thing ever. The idea that it's 100% racist rednecks/bro dudes is obviously false, but the idea that it doesn't exist at all might be the most in-a-bubble thing ever.

Dave is coming more from a live POV but he acknowledges that the internet is the internet when it comes to anonymous bile.

 

I was shocked by how unsophisticated Dave's views on race are. He was trying to argue with me on Twitter and legitimately thought that showing the UFC fan demographic included Hispanic and black fans somehow negated the possibility of racism.

 

Yes, he essentially made the "UFC has black friends" argument.

 

Dave also doesn't believe sports announcers use racially coded language. It was a serious wakeup call for anyone who thinks his expertise includes anything outside the realm of professional wrestling.

 

I know a lot of MMA fans who don't root for Jon Jones because he is "uppity" in so many words. I live in a town that is skewed more black than white but not too much more and all the black guys I know don't care about MMA but love boxing. Back when I actually watched UFC I couldn't get any black guys to watch with me but when it's big boxing then I have a house full.

[Bix]

His random Dan Severn column in a recent Observer made me laugh because without a clearly defined reason for having written that

It was written when Severn retired on New Year's Day. He didn't have room for it until a few weeks ago.

 

You're far from the only person ever to speculate about this, but...c'mon dude, "sperging out?" "Hyper Sperg Lord?"

[WingedEagle]

Talk about undermining yourself. Your entire point seemed to consist of labeling Dave with certain learning or developmental disabilities and then imparting that onto his work product. Bravo.

[jdw]

I was shocked by how unsophisticated Dave's views on race are. He was trying to argue with me on Twitter and legitimately thought that showing the UFC fan demographic included Hispanic and black fans somehow negated the possibility of racism.

 

Yes, he essentially made the "UFC has black friends" argument.

 

Dave also doesn't believe sports announcers use racially coded language. It was a serious wakeup call for anyone who thinks his expertise includes anything outside the realm of professional wrestling.

Dave kind of lives in a bubble on those things. It pretty much needs to be Flair vs Rocky King for him get it, i.e. nakedly obvious.

[tomk]

Didn't know Dave had a twitter account.

Plus being an even bigger luddite than Dave means I have no idea how to read twitter pages.

Is there is a way to expand these posts into coherent threads to figure out what he's responding to and what people responded back?

 

As is with no context it comes off as just a list of clueless apologist statements.

Including a whole bunch of discussion of live arena reaction as though Sonnen is primarily an arena draw and not a PPV draw, and my absolute favorite:

 

When Michael Hayes called Mike Von Erich "boy," was it racist.

When Michael PS Hayes calls any black person "boy" even his illegitimate 6 year old son, it's a racial slur.

 

If you're going to try to claim someone isn't race baiting, don't bring up Michael Ps Hayes as part of your defense.

[NintendoLogic]

If you click on a tweet, it'll expand to show the entire conversation.

[jdw]

Come now... don't you think this was even more entertaining:

 

"I don't think this fight is about race. Ultimately it's about the best fighter ever beating up a funny self promoter."

-Snowden

 

 

Or:

 

"Here's the answer, do you believe Chael is trying to get black fans to the arena to boo him in Newark?"

-Dave

 

"We are talking about the UFC right? RT @davemeltzerWON black fans to the arena to boo him in Newark?"

-Snowden

 

[sek69]

Not to mention most of the events Dave attends in Southern California are booked to get a largely hispanic audience so it's no surprise Dave doesn't see much racist behavior.

 

I also find it funny he keeps defending Chael's gimmick as being old fashioned pro wrestling, but so was Jerry Lawler saying in Memphis he read Roots backwards so it would have a happy ending.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

Talk about undermining yourself. Your entire point seemed to consist of labeling Dave with certain learning or developmental disabilities and then imparting that onto his work product. Bravo.

I always compliment Meltzer's work, and only an autistic-like energy can explain his wild degree of output. I hate when others criticize him as a crappy writer. Regardless, I'm a reformed sperg. On that note, I've always found Dave, despite his meltdowns on air, to seem very socially adept between his connections to those in the industry, to his friends in the weightlifting world, and his having attended parties and such. One funny thing about Meltzer though is when he tried to pass himself off as a Hollywood insider of sorts by saying that Hollywood's contempt for pro-wrestling is the reason why Mickey Rourke didn't get an Oscar that year. Maybe he deserved it. Who knows? I don't keep up with film, really. But I have seen far better movies that left a greater impression. And from talking to friends who do watch a lot of film and also saw "The Wrestler", none of them seemed to think it was the best movie out that year. Most sided with "Slum Dog Millionaire". Either way, it's his lacking theory of mind in that case.

 

I also find it funny he keeps defending Chael's gimmick as being old fashioned pro wrestling, but so was Jerry Lawler saying in Memphis he read Roots backwards so it would have a happy ending.

Wow, that's really messed up. lol

 

What was with the 80's and Roots jokes? That must have been before my time. I remember Jesse Ventura commentating during Piper's beating on Mr. T with a chain, and Ventura kept yelling "ROOTS 2! ROOTS 2! ROOTS 2!"

[Alchemy]

So, um, does Dave actually have Asperger's or is that just shit talk by Some Guy on the Internet?

[Loss]

True or not, I don't know, but it feels like an inappropriate personal attack. I realize there's a greater point in there about his work, but I think there's a more tasteful way to say it.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

So, um, does Dave actually have Asperger's or is that just shit talk by Some Guy on the Internet?

I'm half joking and half serious. He has certain behavioral patterns that indicate it, and I've seen weaker cases than him with that (not that that makes the diagnosis valid as psychiatry is almost a self-parody in its classifications). His interactions with Alvarez are hilarious because, as noted by me and many others, he has no ability to detect sarcasm or when Alvarez is just playing Devil's Advocate. He also talks over people, which is typical of autists since it shows some degree of delayed social interaction. When people mess up on dates, he doesn't react like a normal person would by either doing a quick correction and moving on, or just outright ignoring what neurotypicals would consider to be a triviality. He literally goes on tangents related to the event surrounding the date and will talk anywhere from roughly 3-5 minutes because he feels like talking about that. Another interesting component is that he has an encyclopedic memory of particular numbers that almost anyone would forget, even if they cared to retain the information.

 

Whatever the case, Asperger Syndrome isn't a mental disorder. It's widely known that AS is vastly overrepresented amongst academic types, which Meltzer basically is an academic as he'd be teaching at a university instead if Harvard had a research post for pro-wrestling history. You act as if it's a horrible thing to have, which is a horrible thing to say. Whether he's an autist or not doesn't matter, because it's great that someone like him has such great output in comparison to other "journalists" in that industry.

 

And no, I'm not "Some Guy on the Internet" anymore than you are, but I'm very well read on the subject.

[NintendoLogic]

It's my impression that the vast majority of people who accuse others of having Asperger's are themselves aspies.