Dave Meltzer stuff

[Guest Nell Santucci]

It's my impression that the vast majority of people who accuse others of having Asperger's are themselves aspies.

It's true.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

It is great that nowadays they have intervention for Asperger Syndrome. And for those who've seen the movie "Adam", they're really nothing like that. That movie was a terrible caricature of the condition. But those who have it shouldn't be encouraged to carry on as they are and should learn to engage and interact well with others. I've always had the impression that Dave has a really adept social life, and it's good that he has that. For others, it can be a sad, lonely life because of their inability to relate with others.

 

There's one math professor I see at a local bar who teaches at UCLA. He's probably around 50. The guy is about one of those worst cases I've ever seen. He tries to get women all the time, and it doesn't work because he only understands social interaction in the context of his impressive Jeopardy-like knowledge. Nowadays, he cuts his hair and shaves his hobo-looking beard, and he's doing better. But I feel sorry for him. Now, it's 2013, but other friends of mine said he was so much worse back in 2007 that he barely knew how to say "Hello". When people talk to him, he struggles to say "Hi" but puts in an effort to do so. We'll chat for awhile. He's a good guy, and it's sad that students pick on him and make memes about his hygiene. He's a good-natured person. But then there are other spergs like Sir Isaac Newton, who sent death threats to Leibniz for having found another variation of non-formal Calculus. That should be highly discouraged. Newton had some friends, but I couldn't imagine he was a desirable person to be around. Most theoretical mathematicians usually aren't, however. I was legitimately shocked when I attended a number theory conference some time back as even guys who seemed very adept on a documentary on Fermat's Last Theorem were just. . .strange. And a whole slew of math undergrads at UCLA are cutthroat and would literally let their friends burn because it's "less competition" for them.

 

I do want to apologize if I offended anyone. I take humor in listening to Meltzer's antics with Alvarez. Some people are genuinely entertaining to listen to or watch. Meltzer's writing style is impeccable, even if most people hate it; I love the chaos behind his style, and again, his output is mindblowing. He's a legitimate genius.

 

I was diagnosed some years back and thank God for it because I would have had far less grief from authority figures in high school because I either didn't know how to handle a conflict properly (like spitting on someone instead of just giving them the finger and walking away). Life has been largely good since.

 

Recently, I participated in a research group though, and I laughed at the test results because it's obvious to me that researchers in psychiatry use fraudulent means to get particular results. She derided me for frequently talking about wrestling and French military history, but I guess that's all I could think about when conversing with a woman who had the worst makeup job in the history of mankind (verified by showing her picture to others) and who just had nothing interesting to say. I showed the results to a therapist the school forces me to see, and she laughed herself because the results were absurd. There was no way half of the things she quantified me on could have even been tested for. Whatever. I was paid. All in good humor.

[sek69]

What was with the 80's and Roots jokes? That must have been before my time. I remember Jesse Ventura commentating during Piper's beating on Mr. T with a chain, and Ventura kept yelling "ROOTS 2! ROOTS 2! ROOTS 2!"

 

It was a huge TV event in 1977, and wrestling being wrestling they were still referencing it years later.

[rovert]

Dave could be on the spectrum given his near tunnel vision focus, how numerate he is etc. But he has too many friends and has expressed too much real life concern for people and those around them for me to think he has full on asbergers.

 

Dave only ever talks over people when talking on Bryan's audio equipment. He barely ever does it when interviewed in person or on the LAW radio show every week,

[Dylan Waco]

Honestly if I was Dave I would find it nearly impossible to not talk over Bryan

[sek69]

The talking over people thing reminds me of the phone system where I work (which is getting replaced soon). We use a voice over IP setup that starts to lag after a while and conversations turn into interruption fests. I don't know what kind of setup Bryan uses, but it sounds like something similar happens with his.

[cm funk]

I just want to note that in that discussion of racism in the UFC fanbase Meltzer did note that the skinhead/biker set is there to some degree, just that he doesn't see it at the shows he goes to and that it's not to the degree that you can paint the UFC fanbase with a racist brush. The whole thing was in response to some articles or comments he saw that suggested inherent racism exists against Jon Jones and that's why he isn't loved by the fanbase, which is completely absurd.

 

He did go completely off the rails when discussing the topic, but his central point was fine.

[jdw]

The Dave = Asperger Syndrome is annoying.

 

Having actually interacted socially with him probably more times that everyone else on this board *combined*... the diagnosis is part funny and part eye rolling material.

 

Is Dave quirky? Sure. On the other hand, look around. We post to a pro wrestling message board. We are a bunch of folks with quirks as well. It's a waste of time to try to project onto folks that we don't know.

 

John

[tomk]

Come now... don't you think this was even more entertaining:

 

"I don't think this fight is about race. Ultimately it's about the best fighter ever beating up a funny self promoter."

-Snowden

 

 

Or:

 

"Here's the answer, do you believe Chael is trying to get black fans to the arena to boo him in Newark?"

-Dave

 

"We are talking about the UFC right? RT @davemeltzerWON black fans to the arena to boo him in Newark?"

-Snowden

 

 

Yeah well I didn't quite get the twitter feed format so all I got was Meltzers stuff and not Snowden's responses. Also hilarious that Snowden's article is what precipitated this and not either the deadspin or the Rios piece:

 

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Nobody cares because they aren't desperate for a hook on a story they know isn't there.

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Real racism exists, and it trivializes it by pretending this fight is about race.

 

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia A good friend of mine who is a coach uses the word "entitled" about his athletes frequently. Most are white.

 

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Not till this week did I realize he was a closet racist.

 

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia That was racist. Because the boy reference wasn't about age. This clearly was since age is part of narrative he's pushed.

 

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia JJ also thinks people are out to get him because he's successful. It's a crutch to not look at why his popularity fell.

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia The difference is the narrative he's trying to sell is experience vs. inexperience, not black vs. white.Worse you know that

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Is the inflection and delivery of Chael's "boy" reminiscent of Flair & Ole in 1990? Not even close.

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia If it was, you'd have a point. I hate racism, that's why I hate this discussion, because I know it's fake from some

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Here's the answer, do you believe Chael is trying to get black fans to the arena to boo him in Newark?

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia And if you're in Newark tonight, let me know how successful he was with demos and crowd reax.

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia If there's a different audience makeup and they're out to kill Chael, you are right and I'll admit it.

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia If that doesn't exist in the crowd tonight, then you can admit you were wrong.

 

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia I believe Chael's remarks against Anderson had an anti-Brazilian subtext, absolutely.

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Isn't the whole narrative on Chael in this build how he's done a 180?

Dave Meltzer Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Depends on what you consider significant. As much as in any form of society.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia But MMA crowds cheer home town, familiarity, star power, likeability.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Again, your "undercurrent racist" crowd on Saturday loved Cormier and Gil more than anyone else.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia So they were racist against Benson as your crutch, but not racist against Mir, or maybe racist against Mir. Confused.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Depends on market, like anything. Vegas is hardly biker crowd, cheer exciting fighters, charismatic fighters.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Low level indies, very different. Again, tonight's crowd make up and reaction will tell.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Never heard a racial chant at a UFC show in my life. Very rare heckler and in every case, people around them got po'd.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia And you wouldn't be wrong about some crowds at some times. But we'll see how crowd reacts tonight.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia The last UFC show the two most popular fighters were minority fighters. You think anyone gave it a thought?

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia And how does that fit into your biker redneck fan base that you just claimed. How is this possible?

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia You tried to tie Chael Sonnen in with 1990 Flair & Ole, I didn't bring it up.If the idea is same, show vibe should be same.

Dave Meltzer‏@davemeltzerWON

@mmaencyclopedia I didn't say that. I'm talking 4/27/13 in Newark. But ironically you're the one stereotyping the sport and its fans.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Then explain April 20, 2013, last Saturday night, not 17 years ago or even 7 years ago.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Who used the term biker redneck audience? Who claimed racist fan base?

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Scarbrough study of UFC fan base, 20% Hispanic, 16% black. Country as a whole, 15% Hispanic 12%

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Your attempt to defend yourself by stereotyping a the fan base of a sport that if it was ever true, isn't now.

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia Not this again. They've called Chael explosive as well. And tons of black fighters haven't been called explosive.

 

Dave Meltzer ‏@davemeltzerWON 27 Apr

@mmaencyclopedia The only one stereotyping is you.

This is a hilarious set of dumb defensive talking points, starting with “your making shit up to help your career’ and ending with “you’re the real racist”. It legit reads like the kind of thing I’d expect from a Mark Madden level dumb corporate shill.

 

What makes the Ps Hayes comment the funniest is that I think even Madden would have the self awareness not to use “wMichael Ps Hayes called Mike Von Erich "boy" once” line.

 

I imagine if you called Michael Ps Hayes tomorrow and asked you to walk through Sonnen’s mic work and explain why it’s so effective he’d be able to identify the race baiting. If you called Ole he would lecture you on how what’s wrong with wrestling today is the way the corporate culture in todays business won’t let you do this type of racial coding.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

The Dave = Asperger Syndrome is annoying.

 

Having actually interacted socially with him probably more times that everyone else on this board *combined*... the diagnosis is part funny and part eye rolling material.

 

Is Dave quirky? Sure. On the other hand, look around. We post to a pro wrestling message board. We are a bunch of folks with quirks as well. It's a waste of time to try to project onto folks that we don't know.

 

John

I'd pay $100 to hang out with the guy for a day. I'll say though that not everyone with AS is an obvious case. (Most wouldn't guess I'm of any mental deviant even after hanging out with me many times because I'm too interactive. Some are very obvious cases though.) But you're right. It's a pro-wrestling board with serious pro-wrestling historians, critics, and dilettantes. To the outside world, they'd think we're all nuts for caring about a "fake sport".

[cm funk]

As a casual MMA fan, what was the context of the word "boy" between Chael and and Jones? I doubt that Sonnen has a racist bone in his body, and everything I saw with them looked like a half lame work. I mean really. This is stupid. Maybe they tried to press a couple buttons for a fight that had little heat, but who cares? Nobody went to or bought that fight to see the white beat the black

 

If we want to question racisms in UFC wait til we see a real aryan step up to challenge a black champ. GSP would become the hero of the Aryan Nation if he challenged Silvan. It would be insane. Probably half why he doesn't want to do it

[caley]

As a casual MMA fan, what was the context of the word "boy" between Chael and and Jones? I doubt that Sonnen has a racist bone in his body, and everything I saw with them looked like a half lame work. I mean really. This is stupid. Maybe they tried to press a couple buttons for a fight that had little heat, but who cares? Nobody went to or bought that fight to see the white beat the black

I was wondering the same thing, him saying "boy" to Jones doesn't make him a racist and didn't seem like that big of a deal, more likely that he called everyone 'boy' as a sign of disrespect/machismo. Then I looked up the comments he made about Anderson Silva leading up to their fight (Saying that the Brazilian Silva grew up "playing in the mud" and that Silva's father's career consisted of shooting animals in the jungle with a blow-gun) and suddenly it makes him calling Jones "boy" that much more likely to generate from a center of racism. It pretty much taints everything he says.

[evilclown]

The Dave = Asperger Syndrome is annoying.

 

Having actually interacted socially with him probably more times that everyone else on this board *combined*... the diagnosis is part funny and part eye rolling material.

 

Is Dave quirky? Sure. On the other hand, look around. We post to a pro wrestling message board. We are a bunch of folks with quirks as well. It's a waste of time to try to project onto folks that we don't know.

 

John

I'd pay $100 to hang out with the guy for a day. I'll say though that not everyone with AS is an obvious case. (Most wouldn't guess I'm of any mental deviant even after hanging out with me many times because I'm too interactive. Some are very obvious cases though.) But you're right. It's a pro-wrestling board with serious pro-wrestling historians, critics, and dilettantes. To the outside world, they'd think we're all nuts for caring about a "fake sport".

 

I'm probably in a unique position as someone who knows Dave personally and who also interacts with people with autism on a daily basis.

[S.L.L.]

Dave could be on the spectrum given his near tunnel vision focus, how numerate he is etc. But he has too many friends and has expressed too much real life concern for people and those around them for me to think he has full on asbergers.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you just don't know better, but Asperger's Syndrome doesn't make it impossible to do those things, it makes it harder to do those things. I express concern for people around me all the time, and I still have plenty of moments that serve as a dead giveaway to my condition (especially online, when all our worst attributes tend to get pushed to the forefront). If Dave has it - and he's always read like a guy who has it, though I don't think that really proves anything in and of itself - he's clearly learned how to cope with it well enough to function in society, but being able to do that doesn't mean you can't have it.

[Matt D]

Now I feel like we should almost do a roll call of PWO issues and how they correlate to our wrestling views, like how being off ritalin for the last ten years means that I need heavy structure in order to pay attention to what's going on in a match or something.

[tomk]

When people talk about racism, and coded language and race baiting they are not talking about appealing to Rahowa skinheads. Those guys don't need coded language.

 

No one is saying that Sonnen was calling for "genocide of the mud peoples"...but that the stuff he says (using Snowden's words)"He has a single idea and a single target—the "other." would get you fined in MLB, NBA or NFL.

 

This is the deadspin article which is probably the best article to start with as I think deadspin is the most mainstream site:

 

http://deadspin.com/chael-sonnen-the-ufcs-...is-wa-474796344

 

Snowden's article which I think came first and is far far gentler is here:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1617086...ng-act-gone-bad

 

The Pacific Standard article is I think the least of the articles, as Sonnen is far more Jeff Dunham than Lee Atwater.

 

Also with Howard University being in the news recently for Rand Paul going there to tell the students "did you know that the Republican party was the party of abolition to slavery and reconstruction?" and then driving to Baltimore and telling a bar "did you know the Colts won Baltimore the NFL Championship in 1958 and 1959 and then won them the Superbowl in 1971?", I would have put more emphasis on Atwater being on the Howard board and less on his love of the blues.:

 

http://www.psmag.com/culture/the-great-white-hoax-56404/

 

Pretty much all I read in terms of MMA sites at this point is Snowden, stuff from more general sports news/blog sites,stuff friends forward to me, and stuff in Russian on google translate( only MMA fed that I kind of follow closely is M1 which gets no US coverage)...so I really have no idea how anyone wrote about the promotion of this fight without talking about the race baiting.

 

Neither here nor there in terms of the discussion of race baiting, but this is pretty racist behavior that at least in this article is described as "breaking character"...

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/0...r-people-video/

[jdw]

I'd pay $100 to hang out with the guy for a day. I'll say though that not everyone with AS is an obvious case. (Most wouldn't guess I'm of any mental deviant even after hanging out with me many times because I'm too interactive. Some are very obvious cases though.) But you're right. It's a pro-wrestling board with serious pro-wrestling historians, critics, and dilettantes. To the outside world, they'd think we're all nuts for caring about a "fake sport".

I think we all like to project and diagnose onto others what we ourselves have, or that those we love have.

 

At times we're right: I've had two friends where their kids had long, lingering "stomach illnesses" that caused them to basically miss a school year... then feel fine during the summer... and then have it come back no later than a month into the next school year. I was roughly a year ahead of the parents, and their doctors, that it was in the kids heads causing the physical symptoms. And had a reasonable idea of the things he kid was likely dealing with in their heads that were causing it. And ahead of the curve when one of the parent dropped a comment from one of the kids that made me as gently as possible raise the red flag of, "You really need to get him psychological help because that's the type of comment kids who kill themselves make."

 

At times... we're wrong. I can see a friend who is "down" and not quite their normal self for a stretch, and worry if they're depressed... projecting something I've dealt with (not always well) since high school. And it not really be that, but instead a fairly normal reaction to other things.

 

I'm glad that we're seeing more attention to AS. But I also think that a big chunk of it being tossed around in the mainstream is that people like it as a new magic answer to "Ah... that's that the problem with the kid / guy is." It became / has become the next big thing after Bi-Polar. While I'm glad that we've seen a lot of advances in dealing with bi-polar / depression / manic depression, I cringe when I see people Bi-Polar tossed around lightly to explain light ass stuff away. Perhaps because it's hit close to home, and I've had family, friends and family members of friends who've taken their life while battling it.

 

Person: "Well... I'm just a little bi-polar."

 

jdw : "Well... fuck you."

 

:/

 

Tossing AS out at Dave on a pro wrestling board where half the people will think, "Well that explains why Dave is goofy" and the other half will think, "Why the fuck are we going into this" just cheapens AS. :/

 

I far prefer simple stuff:

 

Dave Scherer is an asshole.

 

That doesn't cheap Assholes at all, speaking as one myself.

 

So can we put this to bend. Diagnosing the mental health of a pro wrestling writer is kind of... beyond what even most of us do here, even the abrasive ones like me.

[S.L.L.]

Now I feel like we should almost do a roll call of PWO issues and how they correlate to our wrestling views, like how being off ritalin for the last ten years means that I need heavy structure in order to pay attention to what's going on in a match or something.

Hiroshi Tanahashi is obviously charismatic. I guess the fact that I think he blows can be chalked up to my inability to pick up the social cues he's delivering in his matches. Obviously.

[Guest Andrews]

The only booker on that list to never really turn a profit is the one who won. There you go.

If a film director was critically acclaimed yet his films don't make a profit - does that make him a bad film maker?

[Dylan Waco]

Worth noting that AS is now considered a badge of honor and widely self diagnosed within certain online subcultures.

[Loss]

The only booker on that list to never really turn a profit is the one who won. There you go.

If a film director was critically acclaimed yet his films don't make a profit - does that make him a bad film maker?

 

Since when does anyone in wrestling care about critical acclaim?

[jdw]

Worth noting that AS is now considered a badge of honor and widely self diagnosed within certain online subcultures.

As was bi-polar before it. One of the points I was getting at.

 

John

[Guest Nell Santucci]

Worth noting that AS is now considered a badge of honor and widely self diagnosed within certain online subcultures.

You gotta love postmodern identities. It's an utterly bizarre badge of honor, for lack of a better term, though I think autists often lack a self of sense, so that would make sense.

 

JDW, I don't think Bipolar was ever a badge of honor in the same way that AS is nowadays. Just those with Bipolar, often during a high, feel like telling everyone in an awkward way to relate with others - at least that's what I've seen from personal experience. People might often try to project onto others diagnoses, but that's certainly not what I do.

 

It's unlikely that Meltz would be diagnosed with AS anyway. One necessary condition for AS is one's life must be necessary hampered by that condition; in fact, that's true of practically any mental condition. Richard Borcherds, a mathematician who won the Fields Medal back in 1998 IIRC, was ruled out as having AS partly on those grounds. Frankly, I don't understand that standard because DSM-IV has always struck me as a functional taxonomy of mental conditions, independent of its impact; in other words, it's purely descriptive of a class of conditions. So why there is a consequentialist standard is beyond me. In fact, neuroscience only vindicates my standard more than the psychiatry standard since whether, for example, one can live with Bipolar without having a life impacted by having Bipolar still shows on brain scans similar deviations within the brain. And it's not as if the consequentialist standard is medication-dependent, because it's not; there are no pills on the market for AS, for example, though there are tests being conducted right now to inhibit a part of the brain to make one more socially desirable by picking up on social cues better.

[jdw]

JDW, I don't think Bipolar was ever a badge of honor in the same way that AS is nowadays. Just those with Bipolar, often during a high, feel like telling everyone in an awkward way to relate with others - at least that's what I've seen from personal experience. People might often try to project onto others diagnoses, but that's certainly not what I do.

I've run into it more used as a badge of honor by people who *are not* bipolar to explain away their own bullshit. Hence my quoted reference. I have empathy for those that are. I'm annoyed by those who aren't and instead self diagnose it on themselves.

 

John

[BrickHithouse]

JDW, I don't think Bipolar was ever a badge of honor in the same way that AS is nowadays. Just those with Bipolar, often during a high, feel like telling everyone in an awkward way to relate with others - at least that's what I've seen from personal experience. People might often try to project onto others diagnoses, but that's certainly not what I do.

I've run into it more used as a badge of honor by people who *are not* bipolar to explain away their own bullshit. Hence my quoted reference. I have empathy for those that are. I'm annoyed by those who aren't and instead self diagnose it on themselves.

 

John

 

I take someone claiming to be bi-polar as the new "I'm retarded" statement to explain away their own bullshit. I don't take either to be self-diagnosis, but do find myself thinking "fuck you" when I hear people throw out comments along those lines to explain away being an asshat.