Dave Meltzer stuff

[jdw]

Is that it? Both explanations totally make sense, but I don't totally buy either one.

 

One of my co-workers collects doll HEADS, is obsessed with autopsy photos, and may or may not have murdered her husband. And I'm the one that takes all the shit because I'm into that fake wrestling stuff. I will admit to being hyper-over-sensitive on the subject.

You're being hyper sensitive.

 

 

Is anyone still buying that the NFL is legit?

Of course it's real.

 

If it was fake, NFL Creative would have booked:

 

* Denver (Manning) vs Pats (Brady) in the AFC Title game

 

Instead, Baltimore not only got in, but won.

 

* Giants (i.e. New Fucking York) vs Packers (Aaron Rogers) in the NFC title game

 

Instead, the Giants didn't even make the post season, and the ended up with SanFran vs Seattle.

 

* Manning vs Manning or Brady vs Rogers in the Super Bowl

 

Instead... it was freaking Baltimore and the 49ers.

 

The NBA does a much better job:

 

Three straight years of Kobe & the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals followed by three straight years of Lebron in the NBA Finals. How again have ratings gone since those shitting ratings when the Spurs were winning 3 titles in 5 years? NBA Creative books well, right down to the Heel Refs helping the right teams win.

[BrickHithouse]

The NFL just booked a swerve this year.

 

I don't understand how anyone can watch that fake NBA crap.

 

[jdw]

On an aside, I think a lot of the public see pro-wrestling as more brutal than they used to after Benoit's rampage.

I don't think a lot of the public gives two shits enough about pro wrestling to think about Benoit. It's a bit like the KC player who shot his girlfriend then killed himself in the stadium parking lot: he was simply the Death of the Month, which the class moves on from.

 

Morbid?

 

I think much of the public has moved on from Newton, Aurora, Tucson, Fort Hood... etc.

 

Think that's a reach?

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/1...jones-full-data

 

How many of those do you think stick in the *mass* of the public's mind? Fewer than we think, for less time than we think. For example, I tend to pay attention to this... and I'm offended at myself that I remember next to nothing about the Accent Signage Systems shooting.

 

Benoit was just a Death of the Month. More people still think of Hulk Hogan in terms of pro wrestling than Benoit.

[BrickHithouse]

It's a bit like the KC player who shot his girlfriend then killed himself in the stadium parking lot: he was simply the Death of the Month, which the class moves on from.

Case in point - the Chiefs are my team, and there was a lot more Belcher coverage in this region than there was nationally, and my first reaction to this was "what the fuck is jdw talking about?"

[jdw]

You're hinting at something big, namely that pro-wrestling, by marketing itself as sport, has been in a losing place categorically. If presented as film, it would have more legitimacy in the eyes of the public.

I'm not hinting at any of that.

 

When I was a kid, none of my friends, all of who are sports fans, gave two shits about pro wrestling because it was Fake. The adults I was around didn't give a shit about it because it was Fake.

 

I got into pro wrestling around the time I was 20. None of the people I interacted with gave a shit about pro wrestling because it was Fake.

 

I've been a pro wrestling fan as an adult. With *every* single non-wrestling fan that with whom the words "pro wrestling" has come up with in the past 20 years, the response from them is, "It's fake". Usually they try to gently get to the point, probably wondering if I think it's real and not wanting to offend me or thinking that I'm a dumb fuck for thinking something Fake is Real.

 

I don't give a shit about how pro wrestling markets itself. I don't give a shit about Bizzaro World Dexter. I'm just pointing out reality. The reason most people don't give pro wrestling the time of day is because it's:

 

FAKE

 

 

Ponder how many discussions with non-wrestling fans you have had in your life over the Quality of Entertainment, or Match Quality, or whether it's Good... no, not where *you* brought up those concepts, but where the non-fan brought them up to discuss pro wrestling.

 

Relative to the concept of FAKE, it's a very small number.

 

I'm 100% certain that there are other entertainment and sports things that right off the bat have a similar negative hang up for folks about them that causes folks not to give a shit about them right off the bat. We'd have to think a bit about them to figure out a few. But for pro wrestling, that's it.

 

I know it bugs some people. We've talk about people needing to find "legit" things about pro wrestling, and the old "mainstream" aspect that folks were looking for as ways to legitimize their fandom. My general thought is... who gives a shit. Just enjoy what you enjoy.

[jdw]

The NFL just booked a swerve this year.

 

I don't understand how anyone can watch that fake NBA crap.

 

[jdw]

It's a bit like the KC player who shot his girlfriend then killed himself in the stadium parking lot: he was simply the Death of the Month, which the class moves on from.

Case in point - the Chiefs are my team, and there was a lot more Belcher coverage in this region than there was nationally, and my first reaction to this was "what the fuck is jdw talking about?"

 

And you see... I've already forgotten his name. :/

 

Benoit sticks in out head because he's from This Thing Of Ours that we obsess about. We watched a lot of him, some of us liked him a good deal. What happened was one of the biggest stories in the history of pro wrestling, and it's likely that very few of us will lose parts of what we were thinking and feeling as it broke. It's one of those central things in our fandom that's going to be hard to ever forget.

 

For the public... it was yet another horrible murder, one of many every year. *sigh*

[JerryvonKramer]

jdw is 100% right on this when it comes to what non-fans see and think.

 

I'm trying to think of a parallel and the best I can come up with is Jerry Springer. Remember when all those rumours were flying around that Jerry Springer is fake? That the guests were actors etc.

 

I think a lot of people lost interest in watching that show around then.

[KrisZ]

It didn't help Springer's cause that he started putting on wrestlers under different names portraying people.

[BrickHithouse]

Wasn't Iron Sheik a guest on Springer?

[KrisZ]

Yep and Jamie Dundee was booking the show for a while.

[goc]

I'm 100% certain that there are other entertainment and sports things that right off the bat have a similar negative hang up for folks about them that causes folks not to give a shit about them right off the bat. We'd have to think a bit about them to figure out a few. But for pro wrestling, that's it.

I'd say Soaps, even though they're almost a dead genre, would fit this criteria.

[JerryvonKramer]

Not here in the UK they aren't.

 

Eastenders / Coronation Street are still the bread and butter of the prime-time schedule here. Don't ever see that changing either. People buy into them so much that they call the actors by their character names.

 

The UK soap and the US soap are very different beasts.

 

I guess with US TV, there are a lot of these long-running blockbuster shows now (Lost, 24, etc. etc.), reckon they are a 21st century phenomenon. "The boxset generation".

[cabinboy454]

It's a bit like the KC player who shot his girlfriend then killed himself in the stadium parking lot: he was simply the Death of the Month, which the class moves on from.

Case in point - the Chiefs are my team, and there was a lot more Belcher coverage in this region than there was nationally, and my first reaction to this was "what the fuck is jdw talking about?"

 

Shit, I had to look up what the Accent Signage Systems shooting was and I live in Minneapolis!

[Johnny Sorrow]

I'm 100% certain that there are other entertainment and sports things that right off the bat have a similar negative hang up for folks about them that causes folks not to give a shit about them right off the bat. We'd have to think a bit about them to figure out a few. But for pro wrestling, that's it.

I'd say Soaps, even though they're almost a dead genre, would fit this criteria.

 

That's a good comparison. Lots of people still kinda apologize when admitting they watch or watched Soaps. It's stupid, like John said like what ya like.

 

edit: Yeah Jerry, we have night time soaps that come in and out of vogue, but it's the daytime ones that have been around for decades we're talking about. And they're dying off.

[BrickHithouse]

Anyone ever watch the Telemundo/Univision soaps? My wife is a big fan. I don't know what the hell's going on in those, but there's an explosion every 5 minutes and the women are incredibly hot. I could get into those if my Spanish was better.

[JerryvonKramer]

edit: Yeah Jerry, we have night time soaps that come in and out of vogue, but it's the daytime ones that have been around for decades we're talking about. And they're dying off.

I have never heard about these until just now:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_da...p_opera_ratings

 

Honestly haven't heard of a single one of those shows. This must be the shit you guys don't export.

 

We've always had healthy doses of stuff like Diagnosis Murder and Murder She Wrote though. Staples of the mid-afternoon schedule.

[Johnny Sorrow]

edit: Yeah Jerry, we have night time soaps that come in and out of vogue, but it's the daytime ones that have been around for decades we're talking about. And they're dying off.

I have never heard about these until just now:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_da...p_opera_ratings

 

Honestly haven't heard of a single one of those shows. This must be the shit you guys don't export.

 

We've always had healthy doses of stuff like Diagnosis Murder and Murder She Wrote though. Staples of the mid-afternoon schedule.

 

The crazy thing about the daytime soaps is that they never stop. They never show reruns, it's 5 days a week 52 weeks a year.

[JerryvonKramer]

See the British soaps run 52 weeks a year, 4 times a week. But they are primetime, basically flagship shows for BBC1 and ITV with decent production values and will be your top rated shows in any average week. Some people follow them avidly, others kinda dip in and out -- the characters and situations seldom change too much, so even if you've missed like 5 years you can kinda pick it back up within a few episodes.

 

There have been 8,040 episodes of Coronation Street since 1960. Wonder if anyone has actually seen them all. I would be shocked if there was someone my age who'd tracked down all those episodes on DVD and sat through them. That's 4,020 hours of footage or 168 days. That's some homework. I have honestly never watched even 1 episode of it from start to finish. I followed Eastenders for a while before, but never Corrie.

[JerryvonKramer]

Some online searching has shown that there are quite a few people out there who have seen all 8,000+ episodes of Coronation St., including a woman in her 40s. Jesus.

 

Got me wondering about shows with most episodes ever:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_telev...y_episode_count

 

It's all your US "day-time soaps". Guiding Light - 15,762 episodes(!!)

 

I'm kinda surprised that CBS would pull the plug on a show that's been going for 72 years. Imagine being the guy to make that decision.

[artDDP]

The people I know that give me a hard time about my love of professional wrestling are usually the same people who obsessively watch every episode of those cable TV shows about finding treasures in someone's garbage or buying hot rods cash on the side of the road. They'll insist that everything about those shows is real, too.

[Death From Above]

I honestly treat wresting like a Mafia activity and have for years. I don't discuss the Family business with people outside the Family. ;-) There is literally nothing to be gained by the attempt at all. It's not even that I'm embarrassed about it. I think TV is around 98% shit, it's just a matter of which shit amuses you. There's no reason to point fingers. It's more that I'm 31, nearly 32, and I really don't give a shit anymore about having to justify doing the things I enjoy, whatever those may be. Why even open myself up to having to have "that argument" with people? It's just a waste of energy.

 

Granted, I barely watch wrestling anymore at all, but still. You can't hang out on DVDVR and Pro Wrestling Only without some due cause. Even if, really, Doomsday Preppers is the real pro wrestling of the 2010's. What a TV show that is.

[goc]

I'm kinda surprised that CBS would pull the plug on a show that's been going for 72 years. Imagine being the guy to make that decision.

Soaps aren't cheap to produce and the ratings have been on a steady decline for YEARS. I don't think they struggled too hard with that decision, tbh. The TV landscape in the U.S. has changed dramatically since the "heyday" of Soaps. The viewing audience for day-time TV isn't what it used to be either, with a lot more women working than back in the 50s when they started as a prime vehicle to sell household products to women. That's how they got the name "soap operas" to begin with.

[Death From Above]

As a bizarre aside, I'm genuinely curious what the pay for soap opera actors and writers is compared to a "normal" show.

 

Those people work a pretty insane schedule, and I'm guessing it's not for big money in TV terms at all. Meanwhile up at the top of the ladder some guy will get a couple million an episode to do 20 shows.

[Matt D]

That seems like the sort of thing Mark Evanier would have talked about but I can't find it on his site. I know he talks about the problems reality show writers have to deal with.