goc Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm glad we could have this discussion about how Metlzer was right in calling Miz an upper card guy instead of about Meltzer calling him a "comedy heel" which was you know kind of the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 The whole dressing up like Cena and Nikki was done for comedy, wasn't it? It's not like Dave was implying the guy is Santino level, he's saying the company wasn't positioning him as a serious top level threat which was absolutely the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 The whole dressing up like Cena and Nikki was done for comedy, wasn't it? It's not like Dave was implying the guy is Santino level, he's saying the company wasn't positioning him as a serious top level threat which was absolutely the case. Miz has been booked just as strong, if not stronger than Kevin Owens. Were the nWo comedy heels because of this? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm not sure Dave "I'm 60 and have better abs than Johnny Mundo" Meltzer has room to talk about a guy taking enhancements. Traps benefit more from steroids than other muscles because they have a lot more receptor sites. If someone has completely ridiculous traps, it's a telltale sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 He's very serious about his shoulder shrugs. Is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Â The whole dressing up like Cena and Nikki was done for comedy, wasn't it? It's not like Dave was implying the guy is Santino level, he's saying the company wasn't positioning him as a serious top level threat which was absolutely the case. Miz has been booked just as strong, if not stronger than Kevin Owens. Were the nWo comedy heels because of this? Â The problem is that Miz is easily dismissed, Lord knows why. Â Someone mentioned Jericho, and I think that there is a very valid comparison point here: how many comedy bits has Jericho done throughout his career, as both a face and a heel? In fact, during his most recent heel run he might've done MORE comedy than the Miz. Is he described as just a "comedy midcard heel"? Of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 It's funny to bring up the nWo since you always knew they were going to win whatever match/feud they were put into unless it was B/C level guys like Vincent or Michael Wallstreet. At no point was there any doubt here that Miz was going to lose in the end. It's not just doing comedy, it's doing comedy in a role where it's clear you're not going to win in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 What about Jericho doing comedy bits around Ambrose - feuding over a plant, no less - in early 2016? He was obviously going to lose that one. Is he a comedy midcarder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 What about Jericho doing comedy bits around Ambrose - feuding over a plant, no less - in early 2016? He was obviously going to lose that one. Is he a comedy midcarder? Â At that point, yeah pretty much. Up until they started to make him the HHH to Owens' HBK I would have considered him in that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I think he still is a guy who does mostly comedy - way more than Miz, mind you -, but I would not consider him a "comedy midcard face". There seems to be a very noticeable double standard on the Miz, at least when it comes to people like Meltzer talking. Â DX used to mock the ever loving shit out of people, doing impersonations of the Nation of Domination, Vince and Shane, etc. Were they comedy acts? Examples of comedy heels: Breezango, Santino (who also was a comedy face), Spirit Squad. Miz isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 He's not a geek like they were but there's a clear line where you know he'll beat the Heath Slater types and lose to the main event guys. I think the issue is that folks hear the term "comedy __" and assume that the implication is you're calling the person a shit wrestler. It's a guy who's out there for Sports Entertainment purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Jericho has definitely been a full on comedy character for the past year. The stuff with Dean, even with thumbtacks, was comedy straight through, and the KO angle was literally like 8 months straight of comedy segments, 1 week of a comedy segment that got serious, and then back to comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 I know this isn't really the debate in question, but Jericho as midcard comedian has been much, much more tolerable than the Jericho of 12-18 months ago who thought he could athletically teach Styles and Neville a thing or two and proceeded to have awful singles outings where he was botching several big moves each match. I mean, he often does, but at least he's modified his role and character somewhat to lower those expectations. Â As even more of an aside: I quite enjoyed the KUSHIDA interview on WOR last week. There were moments in there where it really felt like WWE should sign him, put him in an immersion school to polish his decent English further, and get at least a few years out of him as a likable junior babyface working from underneath. I say all of this with the full understanding that WWE is clueless about and perhaps even averse to the idea of likable babyfaces right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 What Dave said in full most recently that I read was that WWE presents him as a star, but not as someone worth taking seriously in the ring. That's not quite a "comedy heel", although I'm guessing he used that term somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Miz is presented as someone to take seriously in the ring, but someone to roll your eyes at outside of the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 He's never a guy I see as a threat to win if he's matched up with anyone even slightly above him on the totem pole unless there's a shitton of shenanigans involved. He holds up his end of the deal in the ring fine enough, but I never believe he's going to actually win unless he's facing someone like Ziggler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Literally a month ago he completely dominated John Cena for 95% of a WM match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Literally a month ago he completely dominated John Cena for 95% of a WM match. Â Come one. It was the old WCW JTTS Savage match where babyface Randy sells 95% of the match then wins with two moves like nothing happened. He was never presented as a threat at all. Â Dave also said that Miz had been "great" in his role. So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 This shit where Dave was speculating that Aiden's overly dramatic breakdown that he had done multiple times on NXT and was as over the top theater actory bullshit as you can get was making fun of Mauro is absurd and Dave should be ashamed of himself being that reckless with speculation over such a topic that is pending litigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 Poll results in the latest WON for Payback provide a disappointing snapshot for a section of fans  Thumbs up 33.4% Worse: Two best matches 1.Owens vs Jericho and 2.Rollins vs Joe. Come on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 I don't get the concept of being mad over some people not liking the same thing as you. So people thought Owens vs Jericho was MOTN, doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid. I think the hour long draw world title format in the 70s was largely boring as shit and I also know most people here would vehemently disagree with me about it. I'm okay with that. Why get bent out of shape that someone liked whatever the latest WWE offering was? Â Unless it was the House of Horrors match. Anyone liking that is bad and should feel bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 Whoa Mr.69, calm down. I'm not mad or bent out of shape. I just think that anyone who watched that show and came out thinking those were the top two matches has horrible horrible taste in wrestling and I needed to point that out. That's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 Even weirder than the cross section of fans is Dave himself having Roman/Strowman rated lower than Joe/Seth and Bayley/Alexa, and only rating it 3.25 to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 Meltzer rates based on his favorites, which I guess we all do. So Owens and Rollins are always higher. Reigns he doesn't really like, so he's always lower. He flat out blamed Sheamus for ending Bryan's career in his review of the tag, so that match wasn't rated high, etc, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 Meltzer rates based on his favorites, which I guess we all do. So Owens and Rollins are always higher. Reigns he doesn't really like, so he's always lower. He flat out blamed Sheamus for ending Bryan's career in his review of the tag, so that match wasn't rated high, etc, etc So do a lot of the people who vote in Observer polls. There were people who had those two matches pegged as the best of the night long before the matches actually happened and would have still voted that way if the two matches were god awful and Roman vs Braun (who finished 1 & 2 for most overrated in the year end awards) had been a 5* classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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