Dave Meltzer stuff

[jdw]

Dave seems not to be hip to how this works. At the end of your piece, you get to shill what else you do in the publishing world.

 

Guys who write elsewhere but contribute to Grantland:

 

The great Charles P. Pierce:

 

Charles P. Pierce is a staff writer for Grantland and the author of Idiot America. He writes regularly for Esquire, is the lead writer for Esquire.com's Politics blog, and is a frequent guest on NPR.

Tom Bissell:

 

Tom Bissell is the author of Chasing the Sea, God Lives in St. Petersburg, The Father of All Things, and Extra Lives, which is now available in paperback.

Wesley Morris:

 

Wesley Morris is a contributing writer to Grantland. He reviews movies for the Boston Globe.

And the guy right above Dave on the front page...

 

Buzz Bissinger:

 

H.G. "Buzz" Bissinger is the Pulitzer Prize–winning author of the best-selling books Friday Night Lights, A Prayer for the City, and Three Nights in August. He is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair and a columnist for The Daily Beast. His new book, Father's Day: A Journey Into the Mind and Heart of My Extraordinary Son, will be published May 15 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. His Byliner Original, After Friday Night Lights, is available for $2.99 as a Quick Read at Apple's iBookstore, a Kindle Single at Amazon, and a NOOK Snap at BN.com.

Even guys who are major staffers:

 

Jay Caspian Kang:

 

Jay Caspian Kang is an editor at Grantland. His debut novel, The Dead Do Not Improve, will be released by Hogarth/Random House in the summer of 2012.

Dave?

 

Dave Meltzer:

 

 

Nadda.

 

A lot of guys link to their books on Amazon to... you know... Sell Their Shit.

 

Grantland is more than willing to do it. We also know that the WON was shilled over at Yahoo in Dave's end-tag.

 

Sometimes you wonder if Dave just takes whatever $$$$ is tossed at him and doesn't give much time to thinking how to make things work best for his overall business.

 

That said... Grantland is a good place to be. They are a massive trafficing site, and Simmons has visions far beyond just "sports"... and frankly lets his regulars talk about all sorts of shit rather than just what you might initially be their "expertise". Becoming Grantland's "MMA Guy" is a very good longterm gig, and might shake out Dave some subs if he's smart in pointing out the WON / WO-4.com in the bottom.

 

BTW, it's probably time for Bryan come around to the fact that branding the site "f4wonline.com" isn't a great way get across that there are two brands, and that the major one is the WON. I know that he's owns wrestlingobserver.com and is directing traffic over to f4wonline.com. But if Dave over at Grantland, a site with vastly more traffic that f4wonline.com, puts something in his end-tag about wrestlingobserver.com and folks end up over at f4wonline.com... or worse mentions the WON and says he writes for f4wonline.com... it's confusing.

 

Go grab WO-F4.com and use it as the main URL. Don't direct traffic *from* it to f4wonline.com, but redirect the f4wonline.com and wrestlingobserver.com traffic to WO-F4.com. Shorter URL as well, easier for Dave to give places like Grantland (and whatever other freelancing he does), and easier for people to remember and type in. It also puts over *both* brands: it doesn't short Bryan by doing all business under the WON brand... but it doesn't short Dave by rolling his stuff under the F4 brand.

 

Not... rocket... science. Christ, they've been online for nearly a decade and a half. They should have figured some of this shit out by now.

 

John

[jdw]

Good piece too; shows the value, to Dave, of working with actual editors.

Yeah... from an editing standpoint, that's the cleanest, most organized piece Dave has written in what... two decades?

 

John

[KrisZ]

Simmons is a wrestling guy anyway so don't be shocked if Dave doesn't do wrestling columns there as well.

[Dylan Waco]

Most sites actually ask you to provide a "bio" so it's not something you add. In fact I've had pieces of mine held up for publication because I forgot to send one in

[Matt D]

Hypothetically doesn't the f4wonline.com name sort of help avoid a wrestling stigma?

 

Actually, someone answer me this. If we're excluding lapsed wrestling fans who already had subs, are there any people out there (not here obviously, just in general) who read the WON just for MMA news?

[jdw]

I think Dave has said that there are.

 

John

[Bix]

Has he? I thought lapsed wrestling fans were usually cited, not MMA fans with no interest in wrestling.

[jdw]

I could swear in some of the stuff he's dragged over here he's talked about having MMA fans as subs.

 

John

[FLIK]

Simmons is a wrestling guy anyway so don't be shocked if Dave doesn't do wrestling columns there as well.

Never visited or even heard of grantland until recently so I don't know how much wrestling content they have on thear but yeah there is some.

 

Guy who wrote this article actually e-mailed me a few weeks back wondering if I had any more info on the Bruiser Brody interview

 

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/772243...tlemania-xxviii

[rovert]

The pure MMA FAN is an interesting beast on that site. Most of the MMA fans seem spilt between MMA blogger types and those who protest too much about their hatred of current Wrestling (WWE) whose veil drops every two months during a hot angle or whatever. It is somewhat what cool to be seen to dislike Wrestling on that forum. A lot of people fashion themselves as mini Meltzers focusing on buys, buys, buys rather than love of the game. I will say honestly couldn't name a layman MMA fan there. Especially these days given the six weeks hiatus and MMA cooling off in general.

 

Essentially MMA is a ever decreasing protest vote IMO.

[Guest Slickster]

From the Thursday update:

 

--I thought this went out in the late 90s, but I guess not. Tommy Dreamer in the video Tommy Dreamer: Sharing My Knowledge was filmed doing a seminar with indie wrestlers and said he believes 99.9% of MMA is a work and guys are told which round to tap in. If that's the case, why are they so much more talented at pro wrestling than pro wrestlers? They, without any formal pro wrestling training, can work 15 minute fights with no holes while guys specifically trained for years can't go 1 minute without them?

[sek69]

After his big return, Dave mentioned that now there's MMA hardcores who are trying to downplay how big a deal Brock was in UFC because he went back to WWE. I know a lot of MMA purists hate pro wrestling, but that would ironically be some Vince level revisionist history to pull off.

[rovert]

After his big return, Dave mentioned that now there's MMA hardcores who are trying to downplay how big a deal Brock was in UFC because he went back to WWE. I know a lot of MMA purists hate pro wrestling, but that would ironically be some Vince level revisionist history to pull off.

 

They were downplaying it as it happened in fairness.

 

 

From the Thursday update:

 

--I thought this went out in the late 90s, but I guess not. Tommy Dreamer in the video Tommy Dreamer: Sharing My Knowledge was filmed doing a seminar with indie wrestlers and said he believes 99.9% of MMA is a work and guys are told which round to tap in. If that's the case, why are they so much more talented at pro wrestling than pro wrestlers? They, without any formal pro wrestling training, can work 15 minute fights with no holes while guys specifically trained for years can't go 1 minute without them?

Heard that Video *cough* . Tommy merely said that MMA is open to being worked.

[sek69]

I could buy "worked" in the sense that I'm sure someone probably took a dive at some point, but it's not like UFC pays guys enough to take real punches/submission holds if the outcomes are predetermined.

[Jingus]

A lot of wrestlers tend to end up with this paranoid mindset about everything being a work. Especially any other pro sports. It's a pretty common delusion among workers.

 

 

I could buy "worked" in the sense that I'm sure someone probably took a dive at some point, but it's not like UFC pays guys enough to take real punches/submission holds if the outcomes are predetermined.

Yeah. There have been a few suspicious fights, but even if there weren't it's still pretty safe to say that someone's taken a dive. Whenever you have gambling money on outcomes, you will eventually have cheating, period.

[Guest Slickster]

If this were true, when would the work start?

Right when you start learning to fight at a local training facility?

Or do you have to win 'shoots' to earn a UFC contract, then Dana White and Joe Silva 'smarten you up' before you sign?

 

Are the trainers, managers, and sparring partners aware that they are training fighters for a performance art exhibition?

 

So all the TV and PPV broadcasters are aware that this is entertainment masquerading as legitimate sport?

If so, they must know that the fighters aren't seriously injured but are taking time off.

If so, then why don't they push for bigger fights on TV and PPV?

Dana should have no problem making marquee fights every few weeks.

 

I'd assume their sponsors must be aware of it too.

If so, then why don't they ever push to have their guy win a fight or two to keep their brand strong?

Or why don't banned brands ever 'spill the beans' and leak this news to the world?

 

Also, this means the sports books are taking an extraordinary risk by allowing bets on a scripted entertainment event.

If even one member of UFC's inner circle knew in advance a fight's winner and the round he'd win in, he'd make a lot of money.

 

And that leads me to the fighters themselves. Given some of the stupid Twitter posts and personal decisions UFC fighters make, I'd find it VERY hard to believe that the fighters wouldn't tell anyone in their inner circle about 'the business.'

[cm funk]

There were worked finishes in Pride and speculation about some of the pre-zuffa era UFC shows. There's been fixes and dives in boxing as long as it's existed. Is UFC in the business of fixing fights? Doubtful, but not entirely out of the question. Have fighters "taken a dive" in present day UFC? I'd be more surprised if it hasn't happened.

 

Jingus is right, anything that can be gambled on is open to being "worked". Cheating is always the name of the game when it comes to money.

[NintendoLogic]

I could buy "worked" in the sense that I'm sure someone probably took a dive at some point, but it's not like UFC pays guys enough to take real punches/submission holds if the outcomes are predetermined.

Plenty of wrestlers have done a lot stupider things for a lot less money.

[jdw]

After his big return, Dave mentioned that now there's MMA hardcores who are trying to downplay how big a deal Brock was in UFC because he went back to WWE. I know a lot of MMA purists hate pro wrestling, but that would ironically be some Vince level revisionist history to pull off.

Brock Lesner is the Hulk Hogan of MMA: he took it out of the smoke filled rooms to major arenas.

 

 

John

[Matt D]

If this were true, when would the work start?

Right when you start learning to fight at a local training facility?

Or do you have to win 'shoots' to earn a UFC contract, then Dana White and Joe Silva 'smarten you up' before you sign?

 

Are the trainers, managers, and sparring partners aware that they are training fighters for a performance art exhibition?

 

So all the TV and PPV broadcasters are aware that this is entertainment masquerading as legitimate sport?

If so, they must know that the fighters aren't seriously injured but are taking time off.

If so, then why don't they push for bigger fights on TV and PPV?

Dana should have no problem making marquee fights every few weeks.

 

I'd assume their sponsors must be aware of it too.

If so, then why don't they ever push to have their guy win a fight or two to keep their brand strong?

Or why don't banned brands ever 'spill the beans' and leak this news to the world?

 

Also, this means the sports books are taking an extraordinary risk by allowing bets on a scripted entertainment event.

If even one member of UFC's inner circle knew in advance a fight's winner and the round he'd win in, he'd make a lot of money.

 

And that leads me to the fighters themselves. Given some of the stupid Twitter posts and personal decisions UFC fighters make, I'd find it VERY hard to believe that the fighters wouldn't tell anyone in their inner circle about 'the business.'

This is funny just because you can kind of picture yourself back in 1967 saying this about Pro Wrestling.

 

"Where does the work start!"

 

I'm not saying MMA is worked obviously. It just seemed funny to me.

[El-P]

After his big return, Dave mentioned that now there's MMA hardcores who are trying to downplay how big a deal Brock was in UFC because he went back to WWE. I know a lot of MMA purists hate pro wrestling, but that would ironically be some Vince level revisionist history to pull off.

Brock Lesner is the Hulk Hogan of MMA: he took it out of the smoke filled rooms to major arenas.

 

 

John

 

Ah ah ah.

[Jingus]

This is funny just because you can kind of picture yourself back in 1967 saying this about Pro Wrestling.

 

"Where does the work start!"

 

I'm not saying MMA is worked obviously. It just seemed funny to me.

The difference is, MMA fights look like real fights. Most wrestling matches haven't looked like a legitimate contest ever since we've had the technology to record them. It's mind-boggling to think that any intelligent adults have even wondered if rassling was real at any point in the past fifty years.

[Loss]

But ... that very thing (that people believe even though they know they probably shouldn't) is one of pro wrestling's most endearing qualities.

 

This begs the question of what to actually consider a shoot. Guys hitting each other for real I still consider a work if the outcome is decided upon in advance, which probably means works have happened in every sport at some point.

[Jingus]

But ... that very thing (that people believe even though they know they probably shouldn't) is one of pro wrestling's most endearing qualities.

Once you've had a fan attack you, the endearment goes away in a damn hurry. And the vast majority of wrestling matches have always looked SO phony that I just can't respect the intellect of any grown adult who actually thinks this shit might be real.

 

This begs the question of what to actually consider a shoot. Guys hitting each other for real I still consider a work if the outcome is decided upon in advance, which probably means works have happened in every sport at some point.

It's the difference between fictional (a nicer f-word than "fake") and fixed. Wrestling, even the Japanese worked-shoot style, is fictional. The crowd generally know and accept that it's all a show, and pretty much everyone knows it's not a legit sporting contest and that's okay. Fixed stuff are things that are presented as being 100% real (like those infamous Pride matches, or "name your favorite Don King screwjob here") but are secretly predetermined without the knowledge of anyone but the athletes and their cronies.

[CFTV]

I don't think Dave has pimped his Grantland column on any of his audio shows that I have listened to. Has he said anything about it in his daily update? I don't understand why he doesn't pimp where his work that can be found on sites other than the Observer or what shows he is going to be interviewed on during the day or mp3s of the interviews that he does from the that day or the day before that are already done? I would think most people that are subscribers to the site would want to know where else outside of the Observer where Dave's work can be found because they enjoy reading him or listening to him. It would be easy to put at the bottom of the news links to where interviews he has done w/various media outlets can be found. I'm sure the websites and radio stations would love to send Dave a link that he can put on his sites so those sites get a little bit of traffic.

 

Has anyone noticed that on some days Dave's pimp job of the Observer includes the list of most popular issues is sometimes after the news instead of before it? Was that Josh Nason's doing as I know it's been referenced that he has been helping out in the formatting of the site recently? I do like the tabs on the front page for the news, audio, and video.

 

Dave is really missing out on totally maximizing his profile as the go to reporter covering MMA & Pro Graps.

 

BTW Dave is going to do interview w/the Sports-Catsters Podcast that I follow on Twitter. They mentioned that they got interview w/Frank Deford next month and I suggested that they try to get Dave to do an interview since Deford said in an column that Dave is one of the best beat reporters in Sports. The guy who does the interviews thought it was a great idea and Dave agreed to do the podcast later this week which is pretty cool.