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I enjoyed this. Not much to add, but I'm glad to finally dive into IWRG as the lucha libre footage landscape expands. While all of these guys are also in CMLL, it's interesting to see them in a different environment. We haven't seen much Infernales in a while, so hopefully (without looking at my list of upcoming stuff), this means we can expect more stuff again soon. This is also a good time to note that Mr. Niebla here is CMLL's Mr. Mexico. ***1/2
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It's hard when wrestling doesn't really hold itself to any type of convention. Not that it should even. But it's hard to come up with universals like that. I mean, Wrestler wins match to earn title shot is how the vast majority of PPV main events have been set up in WWE for the last 10-15 years, but that's not a particularly engaging form of conflict, even if it is logical and generally effective. Most feuds have seemed to be about everyone fighting for their right to be properly canonized in WWE history. Being the longest reigning champion, being the first woman to headline something, having the first of a specific type of match, fighting to prove that one's success is deserved or one's lack of success is undeserved, etc.
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Cornette actually didn't step aside until 1998. He contributed to the turnaround. I think he and Russo balanced out each other's worst tendencies. And people forget that even in 1996, the WWF was hugely successful in house show business. They were only trailing WCW in ratings, which suddenly became all that anyone cared about.
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I should add that I've come to see Cornette as a bit overrated as a wrestling mind, and I see him as someone more with good tastes in angles to copy than as someone who can conceive his own original ideas. But was SMW a failure? I guess so, if the standard is that they didn't last forever. That would be the case for all groups but one in the U.S. I guess my point is that while Cornette never filled an arena with 20,000 people, he did outdraw WCW in the same markets at his peak, and that roster had Ric Flair, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude and others. He did draw 5,000 for Night of the Legends, which was a big success that wasn't aiming to be Wrestlemania, but was a big crowd in a market that hadn't seen numbers like that in quite some time. As a wrestling mind, I think Eddie Gilbert was a better Jim Cornette than Jim Cornette. Ric Flair-Terry Funk, which did 15,000 in Baltimore and was the most successful feud WCW had until 1996, was his brainchild.
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That's not actually true, though. Is the standard for "drawing money" now that unless you were involved in the hottest period in the history of wrestling, then you accomplished nothing?
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I've come to believe Russo - to an extent - when he talks about his contributions, because I see his fingerprints everywhere in 1998-1999, and also at times in 1997. The issue is that I think he thinks the stuff that sucked is the reason they were successful, when a lot of it was genuinely shit that people were willing to sit through in order to see Austin, Rock, and DX. Stuff like Chyna's friend Sammy giving Mark Henry a blowjob, or Terri Runnels and Jacqueline tying Mark Henry up and whipping him, or Mark Henry confessing in sex therapy that he had carnal relations with his sister, or ... well, just about anything else Mark Henry was saddled with during that time. To name some non-Mark Henry moments, the Chaz-Marianna domestic violence story, Hawk's live suicide attempt, and Mideon's sexual attraction to farm animals are the kind of thing that Russo seems to genuinely think mattered to their success. Stephanie I do think would have become head of Creative, and when more stuff inevitably stopped clicking as fans started burning out, Russo would likely try and fail in making her a scapegoat. Not much would change with or without her in that role since, as we've seen since her departure from Creative, everything is pretty much the same in her absence. Where it gets interesting for me with Russo is when Paul Heyman shows up. If Heyman isn't content to just announce, and he likely wouldn't be, the two of them are probably jockeying for position, knowing there's really no reason for both of them to be around.
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I don't think much about WCW's path changes. Wrestling has done a really bad job overall at cultivating new minds with a fresh approach to this stuff. I suspect we would have had an endless loop of Bischoff, Sullivan, Hogan and Nash power struggles, which already wasn't working. The WWF is interesting. The biggest beneficiary there probably would have been Chris Jericho, who he was higher on than anyone else with power at the time.
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Battle royals really need careful layout to be anything worthwhile. This is just sensory overload with no focus. Notable mainly for Randy Savage's last-ever appearance in WCW, randomly reappearing and disappearing. Flair wins the match and thus a title shot at the Great American Bash.
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A potential PPV main event (and a match I had zero interest in seeing, mind you) is kind of a waste. Shocking lack of heat for this, though. Steiner gets babyfaced here when Hogan is supposed to be the babyface and the booking is weird.
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Flair's selling here is artful. Check out the way he bumps for every single Kidman strike and puts over everything so effectively. There's always a split second when Flair sells a superplex where I think he was legit injured because of the way he puts it over. These two look better opposite each other as a visual, and this would have been a good follow-up program for both guys had they chosen to go in that direction. The mix of the Filthy Animals, Hogan, and Nash is exactly the right mix of talent for WCW at this point in time. I have no problem with any of this. A bit overbooked, but when that's the worst thing you can say about a Russo segment, that's pretty good.
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This was okay, but as hair matches go, a bit on the disappointing side from a violence perspective. I realize this was smaller in scope and they weren't trying to have an all-timer, so it wasn't a bad match or anything. But it wasn't really memorable either. Brazo had a nasty bladejob, though.
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Hogan worked his ass off here and the result was a very good match, maybe the best Awesome had this year too. For whatever reason, these two meshed well, and Hogan was awfully motivated. I'm all for younger guys beating established guys, but I also think three pinfall wins over someone at Hogan's level in less than a month creates a backlash and goes a bit too far in the other direction. In the same way DX got heat every single week in 1997, I think that's what Russo was going for here with Kidman. The good of this program is that it has definitely brought out the best of Hogan and showed that he still had a lot to give if he was presented the right way. ***1/4
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If Over The Edge and Backlash are the perfect encapsulations of Attitude Era main events, this is the perfect encapsulation of a TV main event from that era. Just perfect. It's not even something I'd call a good match, as it's *entirely* extracurricular shenanigans, but they are awesome and the crowd is out of this world for every moment of this. This was a super fun time to be a wrestling fan, that's for sure.
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What if ...... WWE stays with original WM 30 plans
Loss replied to Strummer's topic in Pro Wrestling
Maybe Vince doesn't leave the building before a Wrestlemania main event takes place (think about that), Undertaker collapse or no Undertaker collapse. -
Wow have they blown it with Tazz. The match ends in seemingly record time, and Saturn just wasn't over at all in the WWF, and is not a good choice of opponent for Tazz at all.
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Another DQ finish, but it's clear to me in hindsight they were trying to get over the referee's authority to set up Shawn's return as guest referee. I'd MUCH rather have matches like this that are nothing special, but involve the crowd and are FUN than what we get most of the time after the decline.
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That Vince-Stephanie kiss was a little ... yeah. The match and surrounding angle was tremendous. Jericho in his entrance and reaction genuinely looks like the next big thing. Hot match with Jericho having a great night and X-Pac really in his zone as a terrific ring general. I don't know what the end game was with working so hard to get Hebner over, or if it was just a thank you for Montreal, or what. But the match is super heated and fun as hell with lots of crowd-pleasing spots. Road Dogg runs in after Hebner calls for the DQ for getting shoved and he and Earl do the Ric Flair-Tommy Young shoving spot before the ring fills with referees. Good match but awesome segment. ***
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The crowd didn't get into this dark match since everyone involved was an unknown, but this was really good, and Matthews and York look very ready for prime time. A step above the average TV fare for either company at this point. ***
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The 8 minutes we saw of this was pretty awesome. This particular match was the more seasoned Osaka Pro crew doing the Toryumon style Southern lucharesu tag better than Toryumon does it. Togo and Delphin in particular are probably among the 20 best guys in wrestling at this point. Togo is a machine in this stealing all the moves of the American top guys, bleeding a gusher, and showing ass when the match called for it. ***1/2 based on what we saw, and probably higher complete.
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I'd like to explore the bigger questions of no WCW ever existing and a monopoly as early as 1988 too. I know it's hard to imagine, but how does it change wrestling?
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If that's your take, then we are saying the same thing, but just differ on how to get there. I think the way you build a title and make it matter is to put in on the people who matter the most. I do think the challenger role is absolutely a place for experimentation, but I think step one to a successful championship run is creating the fan demand for the moment, either as a matter of love or hate. But yes, the title will be there after the wrestlers are gone, so it should be more important. But as we saw in 2009, whatever title the top stars go far (at that time, the tag titles) will be the top title in the company, regardless of anything else.
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The wrestler doesn't inherently give it value, but the wrestler can certainly take it away. I've just never seen taking someone who was struggling and making them a world champion work in establishing them as a main event fixture. I can't think of a single time.