Dooley

Th Attitude era crowds were uber-smarks? We may be using the term differently. Anyone who accuses someone else of trying to "get themselves over" at a show is 10X more smarky (and annoying) than someone who goes, has a few beers, brings a sign and looks for a chance to yell "THIS IS AWESOME clap-clap-clap". Hasn't pro wrestling always winked at its audience though? Everyone (for the most part) has always known it's not on the level but they go and enjoy it anyways. Is there really even such a thing as genuine heat in 2014? Like Heenan once said, "it's like a magician that shown everyone how his tricks work". People go to shows now to have fun and cheer for the personalities they enjoy, and boo the ones they don't. Not because they want good guy John Cena to extract revenge on the evil Brock Lesnar for his heinous actions (or what have you).

Going to a wrestling show is like going to a rock concert these days. You pay your ticket to go in and sing along with the stuff you see/hear at home. People are forking over their hard-earned dough and having fun, it seems trivial to hate on them for not viewing it through the exact same aesthetic prism you are. It reminds me of an indy show I went to in Vancouver. There were a couple of hundred people there max. Me and my buddy went, had more than a couple of beers and were heckling the heels. Almost literally got into a fistfight with a self-righteous smark who said I "wasn't enjoying it right". Found out later the guy ran his own wrestling website. SHOCKER~! I also don't understand the hate for the Attitude-era crowds. People bought more tickets and wanted to experience those shows than in any time in history. But because not everyone was an uber-smark and just went to have some fun, they get shit on. It's a very narrow view of wrestling fandom. Please expand on this thought.

But people go to wrestling shows to feel like they're part of the TV show they watch at home. Whether it's chanting, counting along with the ten punches in the corner , singing along with Rock's catchphrases or Hogan's offense or what have you . I agree that it's annoying as a home viewer sometimes and the "What?" craze almost pushed me over the edge but ultimately it's people who have spent their money to go and have a good time. Come to think of it, it's not just wrestling. I remember when Stephen Colbert came to the Vancouver Olympics, the crowd broke into all sorts of chants to the point where Colbert joked that they were chant whores. Which of course led to a "chant whores" chant.

But they added WWF programming in that timeslot right afterwards didn't they? Velocity and Confidential?

I can understand the Turner networks deciding they no longer wanted wrestling on their platform. But that clearly wasn't the issue with Spike.

I've always wondered about that. The official version of history seems to say that WWF had plans for a WCW show on Spike post-takeover, but Spike thought the WCW brand was dead. Even at it's nadir, wouldn't Nitro have been doing better ratings than just about anything else on Spike? If they were that concerned about having "WCW" on their network, wouldn't their fears be assuaged by having WWF (the people they're used to dealing with) running it? How many TV executives would even be able to differentiate one rasslin' show from the other?

Was Backlund-Savage on the books before Savage left? It seems like an interesting "Legends match" they could have ran at WM11 instead of going back to Bret-Backlund.

Thank you for your utterly useless contribution. Thank you for taking the time to thank me. If wrestling is art, so is 3 card monte. I am pretty sure the art of being a conman has been romanticized and studied many times over. I'm not sure what your point is? Magicians are praised for doing the same thing as three card monty and we could call that an art form. Romanticized is a good way to put it. It's a hustle, not an art. The only ones who refer to scams as "con artistry" are the ones pulling the con. The only difference is that in wrestling, the marks think they're in on it. So wrestling is to art as dick-drawing is to actual painting? I might be able to live with that. That was hilarious

Thank you for your utterly useless contribution. Thank you for taking the time to thank me. If wrestling is art, so is 3 card monte.

I've always thought that people who insist pro wrestling is art are the absolute worst. This thread has done nothing to dissuade me from that.

easy thear, tiger. thear's no need to get upset. YOU DIDN'T CAPITALIZE! APOLOGIZE TO BIX!

"My cheques clear."

Sure it would have been better if Jericho was able to run off through the crowd or something, but the idea that Jericho comes out looking worse after getting a clean pin over one of the biggest stars in the company is asinine.

I remember Abe Lincoln's days as NWA champ. Sold that son of a bitch out every night.

FINALLY discovered this show thanks to youtube. Listened to the Bret and Cornette ones last night. Did Bret ever come back for a second episode as they talked about? Really enjoyed the rapport that the two had and would love to hear them break down their matches as they discussed. Cornette's was fascinating with the Sputnik Monroe stories from Memphis. And put me in the camp of finding the Condrey/Hickerson/Tojo story hilarious. My sinister side would love to see him have Russo on the program.

Was that actually the plan or did they just realize afterwards how badly this segment sucked and quickly replaced Piper's "family" with the Horsemen?

You mean the sport where you need to be able to headbutt a soccer ball that's traveling at a high rate of speed? Oh come on.

Hum : I think with something as large as WWF vs WCW, if it's done right you don't need to harp so much on face/heel dynamics. This is the Super Bowl of wrestling, and just like the Super Bowl people will go with the side they like best. The fans would be telling them in each instance who the face/heel were and the promotion could act accordingly or go with the dreaded (around here anyway) "shades of grey" approach. Goldberg vs Austin happens and the fans that like Goldberg better go with Goldberg and Austin's fans with Austin. You don't need to hammer people over the head with face/heel dynamics in every instance. Bischoff would never get a babyface reaction because he's a smarmy prick. That's ok too.

Good work Loss.

I didn't know those fans still existed. I thought all the "RESPECT DA BIZ" fans petered out when those guys that were willing to die for the business.....died for the business.

This seems to be the obvious answer.

I would venture that has little to nothing to do with it.

Because a reviewer would offer up his opinion on the quality of a fight in a short hand fashion. Yep... that would be bad. Yep....that's exactly what's being debated.

As much as I respect John's opinion on wrestling, his responses are exactly why there shouldn't be star ratings in MMA.

As opposed to wrestling matches or movies or books. You can't look at a fight and say "well, i'd have given it 5 stars but the narrative in the second round wasn't working for me". Floyd Mayweather is the biggest PPV draw in the sport and his style is completely antithetical to the style you say people are pressured to go towards. Bradley wanted to brawl against Pac because no one thought he won the first fight outside of two people who unfortunately happened to be judging the fight. Either way, no one scores boxing matches on a star system so I'm not sure what your point is. It's not more precise because there's no criteria to base the ratings on. So does an early stoppage warrant a star deduction? Does it not apply to star ratings because it was a referee decision and had nothing to do with the fighters? Does "fighter X not doing X when he had the chance" warrant a star deduction even if he went on to win the fight convincingly? Do we deduct a star for a missed head kick? A foul? Stalling? Too much ground work? Too much sloppy striking? A spilled bag of ice? Not "getting in all his moves" before going to the "finish"? There's a reason no other sport is graded on a star system. Lulz.