JerryvonKramer

One of the little issues I have with people citing Lawler / Dundee as "perfect" ... isn't it clipped?

For me, it's still Clash 6.

There was such a poll: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33034-ranking-the-holy-trilogy/

Babyfaces https://soundcloud.com/prowrestlingonly/the-monday-top-10-babyfaces

I am pleased these cruiserweight dudes aren't speaking with the generic WWE promo intonation.

What are the flaws of Clash 6?

I think there's more to it. I think 90s AJ is the greatest stuff ever, but I was only ever going to vote 80s for the reasons I said. I think a bigger litmus test is probably what you think of shoot style and that whole scene in Japan in the 90s.

https://soundcloud.com/prowrestlingonly/old-school-vs-new-school-vader-vs-akiyama-bateman-vs-cobb This week, Timothy is joined by Chad who steps into the old-school chair. Matches reviewed: Tyler Bateman vs. Jeff Cobb (3/6/16) Vader vs. Jun Akiyama (1/23/00)

It's just one I tend to reference a lot and it's slightly difficult to search for because search engines don't like asterisks.

For me this may honestly be someone like Hero once we finish the 2000's because just in 2016 alone, I had 22 matches for him at **** or above. Zack Sabre Jr. isn't for everyone certainly but he may have had more **** matches than that. The ability of every weekend that some of these indy workers can produce 2-3 great matches that make tape shows how far we have come in a distribution era. Ironically, this is where Flair -- someone for whom we have ridiculous amounts of footage -- is hurt by footage. Because there's no doubt he was having 4+ matches week in, week out in the late 70s and early 80s, but we just don't have it. I didn't list any of the "other" Steamer matches, for example. Landover we know about, but there are loads of them. Mid-Atlantic stuff we basically have to write off, do you think Loss?

I wonder if these guys might be above Misawa for total 4+ also: Kawada - I was reminded the other day of how much high end stuff he has 88-89. Jumbo - awful lot of 4+ matches in 70s, 80s and 90s, I think during GWE I had him beating Flair on raw quantity. Kobashi - the NOAH stuff might put him over the top? Akiyama - ditto?

I was interested by this, so having a look: ***** Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/83) Terry Taylor vs. Ric Flair (6/1/85) Ted DiBiase vs. Ric Flair (11/6/85) Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham (2/14/86) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (2/20/89) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (4/2/89) Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (7/23/89) Sting, Brian Pillman, Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner vs. Ric Flair, Larry Zbyszko, Barry Windham & Sid Vicious (2/24/91) ****3/4 Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (8/15/82) Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/25/82) Terry Taylor vs. Ric Flair (6/1/85) Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair (12/28/85) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton (07/05/86) Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair (9/26/87) Four Horsemn vs. The Super Powers (4/7/87) Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger, Barry Windham & Sting (04/03/88) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (5/7/89) Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (11/15/89) Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (2/25/90) ****1/2 Harley Race vs. Ric Flair (2/28/82) Ric Flair vs. Kevin Von Erich (4/1/83) Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel (7/12/85) Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel (7/26/85) Barry Windham vs. Ric Flair (1/24/87) Barry Windham vs. Ric Flair (4/11/87) Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (7/10/88) Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (12/26/88) Ric Flair vs. Genichiro Tenryu (09/15/92) **** Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/82) Ric Flair vs. David Von Erich (10/11/82) Ric Flair vs. Chris Adams (2/3/84) Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor (4/28/85) Ric Flair vs. Magnum TA (9/28/85) Koko Ware vs. Ric Flair (11/18/85) Ric Flair vs. Ron Garvin (2/7/86) Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage (4/5/92) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (4/17/94) Ric Flair vs. Arn Anderson (9/17/95) Ric Flair vs. Sting vs. Lex Luger (12/27/95) I haven't really gone over this with a fine tooth-comb, pretty sure there are some big ones I've missed, but being called away. 38 so far without thinking over stuff like the Fujinami matches or some of the Horsemen six mans. How many do you have?

The entire Memphis ep for Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair (8/14/82) should go in.

Any reason this was unpinned?

I'd go: 70s: Billy Robinson vs. Giant Baba (7/24/76) 80s: Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (4/2/89) 90s: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (06/09/95) 00s: Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (6/8/00) 10s: Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar (3/29/15)

Ric Flair only had six matches at 4+ level?

Are you serious?

The numbers of belts for Fuji don't tell you he lost one of his clients the belt minutes after he'd won it. We did one segment on Letters from Kayfabe on the Crush / Smash era of Demolition, who went downhill RAPIDLY under Fuji's charge. Also, look at Don Muraco, a perrennial title contender and IC champ under Wizard, a laughing stock under Fuji. Fuji was the deathknell for many a career.

Mr Fuji was arguably a detriment to most of his clients. He bungled Demolition when he decided to bail on them in favour of the Powers of Pain, then he inserted himself into the PoP's big Wrestlemania match which directly contributed to them losing their big shot. With Yoko, he immediately made a verbal contract with Hulk Hogan seconds after he won at Mania 9. Disasterous. Fuji was a calamity zone, awful decisions all over the place. ----------- As gordi, noted, Grand Wizard was "the manager of champions", and watching him I believe he really took care of his clients. Even helped them get undressed if they needed it. Full pampering. Jim Cornette was an extremely committed manager for the Midnight Express.

This.

Will also always put over all of the promos from Bruno Sammartino vs. Larry feud, especially the empty arena one and the one where Bruno has a scar on his head.

That 72 match can be tough to find, so here for anyone interested:

The DiBiase collection: - Taking multiple piledrivers from Terry Gordy + promo from hospital, GCW, 1981 - Turning on JYD after being best man at his wedding, Mid-South, 1982 + Jim Duggan disguised as a gorilla - The "Mr. R" angle (a mask angle involving Tommy Rich), GCW, 84 - Everything leading up to Tuxedo match with Duggan including the Tuxedo showdown, and smashing Duggan's car up with a baseball bat, Mid-South 85 - Turning on his mentors, the Funks, at the behest of Stan Hansen, AJPW, 8/31/85 - Brainbuster on the concrete from Dick Murdoch before title match with Ric Flair + afters, Midsouth, 11/6/85 As Million Dollar Man - Swimming pool skit, late 87 - Basketball skit, 88 - Trying to buy the belt + Evil twin ref angle Main Event, 88 - Creation of the Million Dollar Belt including cape and maniacal laughter, 89 - Leadup to and breakup with Virgil, 91 including making him clean fungus from between his toes - Destroying Brutus Breefcake's face for being a loser, 93

With Dory vs. Brisco, because the match toured it is difficult to pin down one date specifically. When Meltzer recalls the match, he's probably thinking of a time he saw it live on the West Coast somewhere. When Larry Matysik recalls it, he's almost certainly thinking of a St. Louis match etc. etc. Probably the one most remembered is 2/8/72 from Bayfront because it has lengthy footage with Gordon Solie salvinating for the duration, they gave over the full hour of Florida TV to it. I'd put this one over the 74 one in Japan which is a dry, technical affair without much heat or action. The Feb 72 one is a very good all-action showcase for the match, so symbolically maybe it could fill in. I'm not sure about including ALL title switches since so many of them weren't that meaningful. Maybe the big ticket ones would be: Dory beating Kiniski, 2/11/69 Brisco beating Harley, 7/20/73 Terry beating Brisco 12/10/75 Harley beating Terry 2/6/77 Flair beating Harley, Starrcade 83, 11/24/83 Anyone disagree? Would also chuck in: Sting vs. Flair, Clash 1

Dory vs Brisco would be a lock, Tolos vs Blassie also