JerryvonKramer

I also think that the guys from the 84-6 period got less main stream exposure than the guys from the 87-9 period. That's because Vince had all of his machinery together by 87-9 whereas he was building it in the 84-6 period while the boom was taking place. Even if, say, 86 was doing bigger business than 89 in the gates, I think someone around in 89 had more of a sense of being famous and a star than someone around in 86. This is the thing that hurts a Tito or a Greg. They are remembered for the JTTS phase of their careers more than their peak because it's the 1989 verson of WWF, rather than the 1985-6 version that people remember more. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

I think in real terms it's .... Ted - big star from the period, big gimmick, big angles. Jake - very memorable and very over with casual audience, for whatever reason. Iron Sheik - massively boosted by 1. winning the belt. 2. weird Vince propaganda to get him over as huge figure in history. 3. cult status through shoots Steamboat - arguably he made his name outside of WWF, but rub from Flair-Steamboat constantly being put over as GOAT series by WWE and hardcores AND Savage WM3 match puts him over Jim Duggan - he was a bigger celebrity than Tito, Greg or Rude. Appearances on TV like ALF or whatever. Always over with live crowds. Merch. Several runs in the 90s and 00s ensure the kids know who he is. Probably those five.

1. Play-by-play doesn't talk about matches 2. Colour commentator is bland 3. Sucky live crowds 4. Accumulative "atmosphere" of 1, 2 and 3. 5. Scripted promos 6. Terrible acting as a result of 5. 7. Lack of promo ability of stars regardless of 5 and 6. 8. Wrestlers not allowed to be themselves. 9. Wrestlers being called "Superstars". 10. Wrestling being called "Sports Entertainment". 11. Lack of star power. 12. Too many star vs. star matches. 13. Not enough jobbers. 14. No sense of hierarchy. 15. Parity booking. 16. Short-termist booking. 17. No sense of direction. 18. Wrestlers overexposed. 19. Raw too long. 20. Too many PPVs. 21. Tag titles don't mean anything. 22. Tag teams don't stay together long enough. 23. Every single thing that gets over organically is killed by being turned into a catchphrase and then commentators overselling it. (see "Suplex City, "Yes!") 24. Babyfaces aren't over. 25. Heels aren't booed. 26. Workers don't know how to do transitions. 27. Workers don't know how to do a finish that isn't false finish spam. 28. Matches have poor psychology as a result of 26 and 27. 29. Character work involves staring pensively into the camera. 30. Too many "pregnant pauses" 31. Workers are too self-conscious in general. 32. Every arena looks the same. 33. Product feels staid. 34. Heel authority figure trope is played out. 35. Big Show 36. Kane 37. Stupid multi-way matches on PPVs putting 7+ people in one match 38. Lack of blood 39. Awful comedy 40. Awful twitter shilling Should I bother going on? I could get to 200, I reckon.

Some of those will be false positives from his son.

Don't think so as none of those guys got as big a push as DiBiase in 87-8 or storylines as big time as buying the belt / evil twin ref / WM4 tournament. Rude has the fact that Hogan wouldn't work with him as a knock. He feels closer to a Mr. Perfect than a Ted. Greg and Tito were strictly IC level. Jake is kind of a special case I think and has a lot of "man on the street" recognisability. If I went to any of my casual non-wrestler friends and asked them to name 5 wrestlers, I reckon Jake would be one of them.

Finished now. Man. I'm calling shennigans on this. Like, when do I EVER sleep? I was surely drugged by one of Kelly's agents. I would have DEFINITELY had this. Declaring myself the REAL World Champion.

Aww fuck, listening now and would have been crushing this so far. Reckon I would have got all 30 on Rumble 92, and gotten more on all three managers. Dammit. You'd be looking at a new champ already. I'd be 4-0 at this point.

Hip-Hop ain't responsible for violence in America America's responsible for violence America Johnny, you're right. In fact the name "Dana" has a long history of blurring gender boundaries. Who could ever forget this? Do they get Eurovision in the US? If not, don't bother. LOL

Suck a dick, no homo Dipset, remix. Let's go.

Honest to God, up until I just read this thread, I thought Dana White was a woman. Why's he got a woman's name?

The main problem with this plan is that it requires Arnold Skaaland to do some work, and he's too busy playing cards out the back.

What the fuck now?!

How often did IRS actually hit the "write off cheque"?

I was about to cancel the network but thought I'd give NXT a shot, almost exclusively because my old-school brother-in-arms Kelly vouched for it. Here's what I dug: - Proper face and heel dynamics. - Crowd getting behind faces and booing heels. Hot crowd in general. - Commentators bickering and taking sides as if they were Vince and Jesse. I thought some of the barbs were good. "You spent your youth playing Dungeons and Dragons" "Well ... it IS a good game". Ha ha. - Southern-style tag opener was good, lower card babyface team seemed over like Too Cool. Heel team I REALLY liked, seemed to be working a version of The Andersons / Arn & Tully. Those guys have a future. - Thought build to Charlotte match was good and her opponent was good on the mic and got me wanting to see the match. I think Charlotte has zero charisma and the match was really disappointing, but the build was good. - I liked the Fat Bull. Bull-Fit stuff. William Regal obviously great in the role he's in, and I just kinda dug it as a goofy little angle. - There was a tag team where one of the guys was a bit like Kurt Angle and the other guy is black. Their promo was pretty shitty, but they looked good in their match. - Enjoyed the fact there was a sub-one-minute squash match. - Vaudevillains were really really fun. There's at least three teams who looked like they should be champs more than the actual champs. But their valet looked like she's over like hell and got good heel heat being a dick to the Vaudevillains. However, neither one of them can throw an uppercut like Dory! All in all, it's probably done enough to keep the sub and watch some more. I want to watch that Brooklyn show and I might as well cling on for Summerslam.

Just playing to the gimmick. LOL, took me a little moment to get that.

Muraco is awesome until the second the bell rings. Then: front face lock. Time passes. Chin lock. Time passes. And more time passes. He might be the least engaging mat worker in history. I want to say that he INVENTED the rest hold.

About thirty mins. But steady on, I didn't LOVE it. I just liked it more than the rest of the Titans.

Actually the one thing you DON'T want out of Muraco is a longer match. We had a good discussion on him on Titans #51. He's better in shorter matches, where he can let his charisma and intensity carry things. The LAST thing you want is for him to go much longer than 10-15 mins, because that's why you get the bad Muraco who sits in holds and is lazy as fuck.

Sorry guys but Dan Spivey was fucking shit during this time frame. Actively dangerous worker. He tried to do a lot of suplexes and things like that and more often than not dropped guys on their heads. Chad had him worst worker for Bash 89. We both had him worst worker for Clash 9. Just don't understand the praise at all. "Really talented" seems a massive stretch to me.

Sparky Plugg

I have things set so I can see the HTML codes and manually take out the quote tags. I can't stand posting without full control of the tags myself. Little switch in top left. I can't imagine quoting without that turned off.

This was also awesome by the way!

Probably Owen at KotR 94.