JerryvonKramer

I think he's the only one who could offhand. Maybe Inoki?

Funk covers the feud in his chapter on promos and quotes several of the ones he cut on Lawler for it verbatim. The promos sound absolutely tremendous.

Would it be fair to say that he's one of very few guys who could legit build three entirely separate slamdunk Hall of Fame cases? 1. As wrestler, 2. As promoter, 3. As trainer?

Has anyone seen the Funk feud from 2004? Sounds fantastic.

True legend of the business.

Here's the quotation in full:

The footage I saw, he begs off a bit, but is hardly bumping around the ring or letting his opponent guzzle him. Was a very good subtle heel. Reason I mentioned this though was that Funk took special time out to criticise Thesz for it. He said that certain guys he did that to lost their aura and were never the same as draws again and that it was bad for business ultimately. That the champ has to get the local challenger over, not himself. Ricky Romero is one guy he mentions who Thesz kinda killed. One of a few examples.

Think about Blackjack Lanza for a moment. "grow a big moustache and pretend you're a turn of the century outlaw come cowboy" I think one of the the things with this is that a lot of gimmicks if you really think about them are absurd. Even something that seemed sure fire like Million Dollar Man only worked because they really pulled it off. Could have gone hideously wrong (see Tailor Made Man, VK Wallkstreet).

Weirdly Funk mentions this match in his book too, in passing, claims that Choshu went into business for himself in this match and wouldn't give him anything and started shooting.

In his book, Terry Funk claims that Lou Thesz didn't always work to make his opponents look good and was often in it for himself. Seems to run contrary to the notion that some people have pushed that he was a stooging champ. He also goes into how he worked differently as champ from his brother. Shorter matches. Make babyface look as good as humanly possible.

More on Fritz. In 1975 after Sam Muchnick stepped down and he became NWA president, the decision for who to become NWA champ after Brisco was tied between Race and Terry Funk, Fritz -- whose vote was public -- decided on Terry and took a lot of heat for it. Again, seems strange Funk never worked in World Class considering what Fritz did for him.

I'm currently reading Terry Funk's book and two things: 1. He mentions that his father supported Fritz when he invaded Dallas, and respected him, and that Dory Sr and Fritz were good friends. So that makes the lack of Funk / West Texas guys appearances in WCCW even more mysterious. 2. Nick Roberts, the announcer on this show, was actually the father of Nicola Roberts aka Baby Doll!

Dylan (or anyone), can you put together a "must watch" Terry list? It's ironic really that Dory has been the much more discussed Funk brother so far for this. Sadly, it seems that there is less Terry-as-NWA-champ on tape than Brisco, Dory or Harley. I wonder why that is, but it's unfortunate, because he's looked great in the glimpses I've had, the Brisco 76 match highlights from St. Louis especially.

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-72-superbrawl-ii/ Chad and Parv head to Milwaukee for this classic card. [5:34] Observer roundup for Feb 92: Kip Allen Frey's new anti-steroid policies, PN News in not being actually black shocker, and contract renewals a-plenty. [1:04:59] Review of Superbrawl II: Play the "drink whenever Parv praises Jesse Ventura" game, Chad comes up with a theory about Steamboat's Ninja, and by the time you've finished counting up the snowflakes for this one you'll be more out of breath than Luger in the main event. [2:47:26] End of show awards

Oh yeah, good idea.

Intensity ratings: Armdrag - 4/10 - babyface move, especially used in shine Atomic drop - 6/10 - another babyface move, if done to Rick Rude 7/10 Atomic drop (inverted) - 6/10 - see above Backbreaker (standard) - 5/10 - often first move in a sequence to work over back, or first move in a heat sequence, this is a basic bit of offense, slight step up from bodyslam Backbreaker (tilt-a-whirl) - 7/10 - see Billy Robinson, Bobby Eaton Back drop - 5/10 - standard bit of business Bodyslam - 4/10 - one of the most basic bits of offense, unless done by or to Andre, in which case 8 or 9/10 Bulldog - 8/10 - high impact move DDT - 8/10 - if done by Jake 9/10 Fireman carry takeover - 4/10 - another babyface move, if done by Jack Brisco 5/10 Flying Mare - 4/10 - babyface flavour, sort of move Tom Zenk might do Headlock takeover - 3/10 - very basic "early game" move Hiptoss - 3/10 - ditto Hot Shot - 6/10 - unless done to Jumbo, in which case 9/10 Military press - 6/10 - total babyface move, if done to Ric Flair by any big man knock down to 4/10 Neckbreaker (hanging) - 8/10 - unless done by Rude in which case 9/10 Neckbreaker (swinging) - 7/10 - a "ramping up the gears" move Piledriver - 7/10 - often a heel move during the heat sequence, maybe the second one they hit, can rump up to a 9/10 under certain conditions and used as a finisher. If done by Bob Backlund: 10/10 Powerbomb - 8/10 - big impact move, can ramp up to 9/10 if done by a Vader or Sid Powerslam (standing) - 7/10 - if the guy is really big or Jumbo Tsururta can be an 8/10 Powerslam (scoop) 8/10 - high impact move, in the arsenal of a lot of power wrestlers as well as Buzz Sawyer and Ted DiBiase Pump-handle slam - 6/10 - good during a sequence working on the arm transitioning out of a hammerlock Side Russian legsweep - 5/10 - basic move Shinbreaker - 6/10 - good transition to focusing on the leg, often used as a counter move Shoulderbreaker - 7/10 - nasty move rarely seen unless the specific bodypart is being worked Snapmare - 3/10 - good little "link" move, often done as a setup for a kneedrop (esp. by Flair / Race) Spinebuster - 8/10 - cool looking high impact move, about on part with the scoop powerslam Superplex - 9/10

I cut out any cards that didn't have Robinson on them. He was definitely a main event guy in the promotion during the 71-4 time-frame, especially 73-4. Seems to me that they had a sort of WWF in 2000/1 deal where there was a lot of guys who could slot in main events (Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Jericho, Foley, etc.). Verne didn't defend the belt all that much -- although he was on a lot of the cards omitted. Bock and Stevens seemed to headline most shows on the regular loop and Robinson was a frequent opponent with a variety of partners (Dr X, Red Bastien, Don Muraco, Crusher). Crusher and Bruiser seem more like special attractions, with Crusher showing up more often (presumably because Bruiser is promoting WWA shows). On the heel side, Billy Graham and Ivan Koloff both had runs. Murdoch and Rhodes come in at one point, as well as the Black Jacks. Robinson has the feel of a "utility" guy to me. Can slot him into a main event if needed. Like an early 70s AWA version of a Chris Jericho or Mick Foley -- "in the main event mix" as opposed to being one of the top top stars. Also, as an aside, he seems to have been consistently booked very strongly on those Hawaii cards, and even has an NWA title shot against Dory Jr in Jan of 73. My beef with jdw is not necessarily that he is incorrect about things, it's because he's such a colossal prick about it. It's never a conversation with him. He's one of my least favourite people not just on this board but in the world in general. The world needs less people like that. Zellner and Matt Farmer are able to impart knowledge without being total tools about it, jdw is incapable of doing that. It's probably why everyone hates him.

Why don't we all have a look at the raw evidence together and then people can draw whatever conclusions they will from them. 12/27/70 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena Larry Hennig & Lars Anderson beat Dr X & Double X when Hennig pinned Dr X in the 3rd fall Billy Robinson beat Ivan Koloff dq in 19:10 Great Kusatsu beat Jerry Miller via pin in 14:32 after a series of judo chops to the throat Jack Pesek beat Stan Pulaski by submission with an Abdominal Stretch in 16:10 Big K beat Dennis O’Brien via pin in 12:27 Att: 3,870

But the Sight and Sound list doesn't set out to be "stodgy" or anything, it is just literally a list made from the films that all of the critics and all of the directors pick. Just so happens lots of them really really rate Vertigo and Citizen Kane. This is similar, nobody is setting out to do anything, but it just so happens that lots of voters really rate Flair, Jumbo and Stan Hansen. If OJ wants to submit a list he views as uber progressive or whatever, so be it. If enough people think the same, it'll reflect in final results. "Accurate" doesn't mean "who are objectively the best 100 wrestlers" it means "who are the 100 people you genuinely think are the best 100". If enough people don't believe Jumbo is a top tier guy, that'll reflect in the voting. My point was that if you deep down do think that Jumbo is a top tier guy but are going to omit him from the your list to be novel or interesting, is that really in the spirit of what we're doing? If you genuinely think Indy wrestler X is better than Ric Flair, then fine, but if you're just doing it to be quirky, that's what I question. It's not about canon or interesting or anything else, it's just about the 100 guys you think are best. That's how I see it anyway. I won't be strategically bumping Dory up a few places just because I'd like to see him make the list. It's not about that. If I think he only makes #78th spot, that's where he'll be. This is what I mean by "accurate".

This is a really good post and I agree with much of it. Grand Wizard was the definition of a second, his character was a weasel riding someone else's coat tails. And you're right that often the guy he's managing would have got heat regardless. Wizard as used by Vince Sr. was the classic transference of heat guy. Guy comes in, Wizard transfers heat onto them, they get over, he gets heat transferred back by association in a never ending cycle. Perfect manager in a way, never overshadowed his charges. This is often reflected in the promos too, where typically Wizard's guys would get their own mic time. Wizard tees up the promo, but the wrestler takes over. However, as a pure promo, Wizard has that real tobacco stained old-school villain voice, and there's a certain intensity and eloquence in what he says. From what bits I've seen in Detroit he seemed a bit more involved in angles there, whereas in New York it seemed like he mostly put over programs not feuds or storylines. I think 45-6 is about right for him, but he's an underrated promo. Albano like you say generated heat on his own. And he worked with a lot of guys who couldn't talk. But he's a top ten guy. Blassie I actually think probably was more of a character than a great promo. His facial expressions and crowd interactions are just awesome but his promos are a bit one dimensional. He carries a lot through his mannerisms and general awesome Blassieness. Probably I wouldn't put him in a 50.