JerryvonKramer

Don't want to spoiler the next ep of the show that takes its name from this tour, but I fucking LOVE this match. Jesus Christ, awesome awesome awesome awesome.

If you listened to the last show we did (#5), you'll see I really turned around on Kobashi in that batch of matches. He undergoes an amazing transformation.

I see it as playing a role. Apart from Brody, there wasn't going to be anyone tagging with Stan who was going to stand out with their own identity, not in the way the Hansen team was packaged anyway. And I thought Ted did perfectly fine with the double team spots, and carrying his end of the load. My main objection comes -- and it's not only Ted who applies here -- when people deify certain workers so much that they end up saying stupid things like we're watching a broomstick worker (like Ted) get carried. I can't remember who said it now and can't check because it was on the old DVDR board. But it was almost like they were making out Tenryu was about 15 times the worker Ted was. Okay then, but how would he have done in Mid-South or as the Million Dollar Man? Or whatever. Not just a Ted thing, by the way, I think everyone is guilty of putting certain guys on outrageous pedestals.

Alright, this is the thread I should have made before. In this poll, I want to discuss which version of Vince is your favourite and why. Option 1: Canary Yellow Jacket Vince Here is the the host of most (W)WWF programming in the 1970s while his father was still running the company up until about 1983. As you can see, he sports a snazzy yellow jacket. A bit later he'd trade this in for a light blue number, there's also a deep red version. This Vince often flew solo and his style is one of pregnant pauses and smooth transitions. He seems to roll his words as he speaks, there's a definite "smarm" factor to this Vince. Although often alone, he was also frequently paired with various partners who had comedy foreign accents. As we saw on one episode of Titans of Wrestling, Antonino Rocca dropped in on occasion and was completely incomprehensible -- this is perhaps why he is sceptical about pushing a Swiss man today. His other partners included Pat Patterson and, of course, Bruno Sammartino. 70s Vince seldom got too excited about anything -- he's mostly calm and "smooth" -- but he did totally lose his shit when he first saw Hulk Hogan. He exclaimed things like "Look at his arms!" while audibly quivering. Option 2: "What a Maneuver!" Vince One of the more underrated announcers of all-time, he formed what is for my money the greatest commentary duo of all time on WWF Superstars and SNME with Jesse Ventura. Vince in the 1980s was an extension of his product, coked-up, over-energised, cartoony, macho. As a kid, I honestly couldn't stand him. When I migrated over to the internet and became "smart", it was vogue to hate him too. I mean, oh my gosh, he didn't know the names of all the moves like Joey Styles or Mike Tenay! He said "UNBEL-IEVABLE" about twenty times in every match. ONE, TWO, HE'S GOT HIM OHMYGODONARGHHH! But as I got older I grew to appreciate how fucking amazing he was at projecting the idea of the fan sitting in the booth. Far more than Gorilla Monsoon, he was the perfect foil for Ventura -- as much as Jesse hated Hogan, Vince was drunk on the kool aid. His introductions to the Royal Rumbles and Survivor Series, you know those ones where he's shouting so hard you can hear his voice going, are legit incredible. This is without getting into his crazy antics on TNT or the roundtable-era of PTW. Get back everyone, this Vince means business. Option 3: Mr. McMahon The strong favourite going into this poll, for obvious reasons. He is arguably the number 1 heel of all time in one of the best money feuds wrestling has ever seen. I remember back in 1998 being absolutely mind-blown about Vince's transition from commentator to villain. It's hard to remember being back in that time, but I literally couldn't fucking believe what I was seeing from week-to-week. The prospect of seeing him get physically harmed, let alone have a match was staggering to me. As the Attitude Era progressed, the character got more and more over-the-top as Vince ramped things up beyond cartoon levels as only he can. Sometimes I can scarcely believe the demented shit he pulled. Getting Trish to get on all fours and bark like a dog stands out. I mean -- yes, it's wrestling -- but fuck, Vince WAS actually her employer and did legit write that himself. That shoot vs. kayfabe element, I think, is part of what makes the character so powerful. AND the fact that he was always always always willing to be the fall guy and to take the fall in the end. Amazing character. Does it outstrip my love of 80s Vince or 70s Vince? Hmmm. Option 4: Elder Statesman Vince Someone else will have to fill in the details of this Vince, because I'm hazy at best. Where does Mr. McMahon end and this version start? A question to be asked. He's clearly this version by the time of the CM Punk stuff. I'd put this character as the 4th outside bet, but I can see him beating 70s Vince because more people are familiar with recent stuff than pre-83 stuff. I'd actually like to know more about this version of the character. When I've caught random RAWs and things over the past few years I've had trouble working out whether he's meant to be a face or a heel.

To get back on track then, one thought I'll throw out is that I see the distinction between emotion and analysis as being artificial. It's a false dichotomy. You NEED the emotion a lot of the time to give ammunition to the analysis. I think sometimes there's an assumption that analysis has to be cold and intellectual, that isn't true. In fact, analysis from someone who feels nothing is necessarily poorer than analysis from someone who is able to suspend their disbelief. I really believe that. Which is why I try to get caught up in matches as much as I can.

That he was a bit bland and didn't stand out much as Hansen's partner, which is fair. He didn't embarrass himself, but then he's not much more than solid in a lot of those matches. But it got pushed to ridiculous levels to the point where people were writing things like DiBiase was being carried by Tenryu and shit like that, as if Ted -- one of the best workers in the world for that decade -- needed to be carried by anyone. I thought the criticism went way too far. And Ted was way more over in Japan than Jumbo or Tenryu were ever over in the US (for example), and had better matches. I'll be watching some more Ted and Hansen soon when I get back to Dory watching, and hit some more Funks tags that were left off the set. But it goes without saying that I like the DiBiase / Hansen team and Funks 80s tags more than most of the committee.

I don't want to get too sidetracked, Steenalized, but honest to god I had to stop playing Crusader Kings 2 because it was wrecking my life! Was getting to the point where I was actually considering calling in sick to carry on with it. I deemed it "too good to actually play". [/nerdy tangent] Also, I once figured out that my real love isn't football (soccer) but football analysis and so tried to go an entire season only listening to podcasts and watching analysis without watching any games at all, to see if that could work. Conclusion: it did feel like something was missing, ha ha!!

A post I once made on this topic: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27892-rekindling-the-spark/?p=5615799 In some ways, I am Johnny Sorrow's polar opposite. Everything he does is experiential and "fun". Everything I do is analytical and "work". He derives pleasure from "fun", I derive pleasure from the critical process. This is why I play Euro Boardgames and make spreadsheets when fantasy booking. I literally do hate parties too:

I went shopping for jobber. I bought some jobber. Here's who I got: Barry Horrowitz (heel) Bill Irwin (heel) George South (heel) Italian Stallion (face) Koko B. Ware (face) Lanny Poffo (face) Terry Taylor (heel) This spells the end for the useless sack of shit Frankie Williams, who has been fired. With three house shows a month and four TV shows, there should be more than enough jobs to go around. And maybe Eddie Gilbert can have a break (or a push, imagine that, ha ha! No chance). I also picked up someone else while out shopping. Take that Verne! I really needed an interview guy. Thus far it had mainly been Vince, Gorilla or Lord Al. Speaking of which, Monsoon and Cornette have had nothing to do since I lost Challenge, so they are now announcing on live events and PPVs with Lord Alfred Hayes in a three-man booth with Vince and Jesse on Superstars. This will be the case until I get a second TV show back. Week 26 (July, Week 2) Philly Spectrum: Very nearly a sell-out this. Not much to report beyond that, just executing the plan which is going smoothly. Oh, apart from one thing: I fucked up and forgot to set a winner for Steamboat and Youngblood vs. Sheik and Iron Sheik ... which meant that, yip, accidentally my hot new face tagteam lost in their first match. Doesn't seem to matter too much though, Steamboat's momentum is still through the roof. The rub from Snuka with that TV appearance seems to have gone a long way. Putting some of that hot jobber into action. That's 3 and 0 for the Roadies now. Excellent! Hansen and Snuka have good chemistry too. I'm definitely going to try to hold on to Hansen longer. He's one of those "freelancers" which means he's hard to pin down for more than about 6 months at a time, but I'll just keep resigning the rolling contract. Top 5 show for me this. Superstars: Was time to trigger the Andre vs. Khan / Fuji feud. Otherwise, a pretty nothing show. 4-0 for Road Warriors. It did have this though: Yes, this one has artwork too! Surprisingly good match from Andre and Fuji, which helped lift the rating of this show. Afterwards, Fuji and Khan decked Andre's leg with a chair in my tribute to Flair and Perfect at Summerslam 92.

Week 25 (July, Week 1) WWF Tour: So this show was about more than just executing a plan because look at that venue. The E&P Jones Center is in ... Chicago!! That's right, move over Dick the Bruiser; step aside Verne Gagne! I'm officially invading Chi-town with this show. And was rewarded with a RED HOT crowd who were wild for almost every match for some reason. Two missing matches are: Ox Baker over Strongbow (D) and Killer Khan over Eddie Gilbert (D+). Maybe Chicago crowds are easier to get going than New York ones because they were lapping this stuff up. Gone sign that Hennig is finally getting over, although obviously he's known in the area. Great reaction for Hansen vs. Jones too. Bodes well for Hansen long-term. Of course, he'd worked AWA before too. But this was the biggest surprise. Of these four, only Tito had spent any real time in AWA or was over in the "Great Lakes" region, but they liked this match anyway! Snuka is really turning into a miracle worker. He's in front of a Chicago crowd that has never seen a WWF show against a semi-retired Greek dude who was "off his game" and he still drags a "B" rating out of the match. Amazing really. This was a last minute switch by me. It was going to be Snuka headlining, but I elevated this last minute because Ventura is megaover in the Mid-West, as is Bruno. So I figured this might get the higher rating. Who am I to doubt Jimmy Snuka? All-in-all, this was a pretty successful incursion into Verne-country. Might come back next month. Superstars: Major introduction for Steamboat and Youngblood on network TV with a rub off the champ. Martel and Savage feud started. Superstar Graham welcomes Snuka for another Superstar's Supershow on WWF Superstars. Graham: Superfly, brother, times are grave here in the WWF, brother. For the three wise men of the East have looked up in that sky brother, and followed that star, brother. And they have done the unthinkable, Superfly, they've joined forces! No WWF Champion in history has had to deal with all three of these cats united as one! I know, brother, The Grand Wizard was my manager here when I was the champion. And he alone is one devious and conniving genius. What are ya gonna do? Snuka: Billy Graham, divided we fall, united we stand as one. I have my islanders to back me up and through them and these wonderful fans I gain inner strength, understanding and a spirit that will not die. But these managers keep on bringing back more and more of their men ... Graham: Brother, it's like a ROGUE'S GALLERY out there. I think every man any one of them has ever managed been coming out the woodwork. They made some calls, brother, they called in all of their favours at once! Snuka: And that's why, Billy Graham, I made some calls of my own. I got on the phone to Charlotte, North Carolina, and I dialled up two of my best friends in this business! And TRUE Islanders bother of them. Allow me to welcome to the set ... Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat!! And Jay Youngblood! Graham: Yayooooo! Steamboat and Youngblood! Fellas you better watch your ladies, these guys is *tssssss* sizzling hot! The crowd whoop and cheer as Graham takes us into the commercial break. Oh, I've made artwork for this and everything. Part of my inspiration for this angle actually comes from Detective Comics #566, which has one of the coolest front covers of all time (I have it on my wall in the man cave here). The move is a waist-lock by the way. I am actually loving the idea of how much Savage would hate the cheese-meister stud Martel having his hands on Liz. I'm feeling a bit short on JTTS / jobbers, might see who is around just to slot in low-down to freshen things up a bit.

We are 8 weeks out from Summerslam. This isn't some rinky-dink regional promotion anymore, this is a company that is going places. It's time to get organized. I wanted to plan two whole months of booking in advance. I've been listening to Jim Ross's podcasts recently and he keeps saying that it's important to book backwards. Start with the finish and book backwards. Let's take a look at the active feuds: Snuka and the Islanders vs The Three Wise Men - this was designed to carry the bulk of the summer house shows, and that's exactly what it's going to do. I've signed a pile of older three wise men cronies on short-term deals that sees them to Summerslam. The angle will blow off there. This is fine and deals with a good bulk of the roster in one storyline. Bruno vs. DiBiase - this has been going since January. It's now June of 83. The story has lost a bit of steam in recent weeks after being somewhat overshadowed by the Islander / Wise Men stuff. There's also nowhere else to go with it beyond the blow off really. It's a plot that has reached the end of its natural course. The feud will be kept going through video packages and promos until Summerslam. The Road Warriors winning streak - this will just keep going under the radar until they hit 50 and 0. So I need more feuds going into Summerslam involving guys who involved in the above: Savage vs. Martel - setup here is simple, backstage Miss Elizabeth is looking to do something and Rick Martel is around and shows her how to do it, which invariably involves bending over her or otherwise putting the two of them in a compromising-looking position. Savage walks in on them three times like this before going fucking nuts and there's your feud. Andre vs. Khan - a basic retread of their 81 feud, Andre is having a match with Mr. Fuji on an episode of Superstars when Killer Khan comes out and brutalises his leg. Valentine vs. Hennig - no real story for this feud other than Valentine is IC champ and Hennig after a series of wins is number 1 contender. Brainbusters vs. Steamboat and Youngblood - Steamboat and Youngblood with debut, naturally, as allies of Snuka. Steamer being from Hawaii and all, and Youngblood as a Native American "understands the concerns" of the Island peoples. They will pick up wins as part of the Three Wise men angle sufficient to make them number 1 contenders for a match against Arn and Tully at Summerslam. That match will finish in dodgy circumstances to kickstart a feud. With this as a basic plan, using the power of Microsoft Excel, I've come up with an 8-week booking plan. (red = loss, green = draw, black = win) House show loop: This is some Vince Sr formula shit right here, although truncated to just a one shot against the champ. You can see the formula is very simple. Heel challenger gets a win against a random babyface two weeks before his shot (plus probably one on TV as well), a win against SD Jones one week before, then he faces Snuka, then he jobs to Muraco on the way down. 5 matches, 3 wins, 2 losses. This formula is mainly designed to build and build and build Snuka. By the end of this run, he should be smoking hot and Muraco should also have some good momentum behind him -- just about ready for him to jump back into the IC mix with Greg Valentine. Depending on how certain guys do during this, some of them might even stick around. Race has a longer-term deal and might get some return shots for the title. Hansen and Murdoch could have multiple uses, either as a redneck tagteam, perennial challengers or Andre fodder. Hansen might even join the Elite since his West Texas buddies DiBiase and Blanchard are members. AND, let's see how Bruno goes. If the DiBiase match goes well, maybe Bruno vs. Hansen (revenge for neck breakage story) into Survivor Series. You'll note also how opponents at Summerslam are being systematically kept apart during the House Show loop. TV tapings: The TV has to carry the bulk of the storytelling. Since most of the angles that have triggered these feuds have already taken place, a lot of the stuff for the two main feuds is going to be promos and video packages. The two stories that need angles on TV are the Andre vs. Khan and Savage vs. Martel ones. For those of you paying attention then, here's the planned Summerslam card. I say "planned" because who knows what shit might happen in the next 8 weeks. World: Jimmy Snuka vs. Harley Race Ted DiBiase vs. Bruno Sammartino [cage] IC: Greg Valentine vs. Curt Hennig Tag: Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard vs. Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood Andre the Giant vs. Killer Khan Rick Martel vs. Randy Savage [winner gets Miss Elizabeth's managerial contract] Road Warriors vs. Hansen and Murdoch Don Muraco vs. Ivan Koloff Wild Samoans vs. Waldo von Erich and Ox Baker SD Jones vs. Iron Sheik Next post: you'll get to see all this play out.

I gave their match from 10/31/79 ****1/2 and that remains the best Race match I've seen so far. Based on his NWA title matches alone, Baba has a good case to be worker of the 70s.

I'm inclined to agree goc, if I see that piledriver into a backdrop on the outside spot one more time, I might start shouting out of the window. He does do some things well. His knee drops are sick. His suplex variations are all well executed. And he's a bump machine. But the more you see, the more you see how he went to the same things time and again. That's true of every wrestler, but especially with Harley, even down to the way he puts a foot on the rope and how he times it. I'd like him more if he took more offense in his matches. I don't see the logic in working AS weak as he did. Incidentally, the next two matches on this set I'm not going to watch because I reviewed them already during 80s AJ viewing: Giant Baba vs. Harley Race (9/4/80) Giant Baba vs. Harley Race (9/10/80) Both at ***

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Harley Race vs. Abdullah The Butcher (11/8/79) This is from All Japan. Race has really cheesy keyboard music. World title match. Double juice early. Fairly listless action, which includes Race giving Abdullah a vertical suplex at one point, until they exchange chairshots on the outside for a double countout and brawl through the crowd. The brawl is about as long as the match, if not longer. Felt contrived and tame to me though, and lacking in genuine emotion or heat. Your standard Abby fare. I feel matches like this devalue with NWA title. ** Harley Race vs. Dusty Rhodes (12/17/79) This is from WWF, MSG. Howard Finkel on the house mic. Dick Krohl is your referee. We reviewed this match all the way back on Titans of Wrestling #8. Both guys are more over than I seem to recall, but Dusty is nowhere near as over as, say, Bruno or Andre are at MSG. Dusty had won the title briefly in August of 1979 in Tampa where he had a five-day reign before dropping it back to Race. Such hotshotting devalues the NWA title in my opinion. Not long after this, Race traded it back and forth with Baba twice too. That's why he's an eight-time champion rather than a three-time champion. Dusty mostly works this match on top. Race takes a big bump to the outside and a big piledriver. Comes back with headbutts. Suplex. Diving headbutt from the second rope! Knee drop! Dusty is pretty good at garnering sympathy. Was pretty funny to hear Superstar Graham freak out so much recently when Vince Sr asked him and Dusty to teach "the kid" [backlund] how to have charisma. Graham isn't bitter or anything. Ha ha. Stardust comes back with the bionic elbows but he's got colour. Ref is checking him. Rhodes takes a tumble to the outside. Holy Starrcade 84, the referee has stopped the match! This was decent for what it was. MASSIVE "bull shit bull shit" chant breaks out around MSG. *** Some nerd is probably going to go back and listen to Titans #8 and be like "Hey, Parv, YOU gave that match ***1/2 back then!", well maybe I did, maybe I threw out **1/2. Whatever, it's in that ballpark. Harley Race vs. Rick Martel (1/12/80) Don Owen is on the mic, so this has to be Portland -- has anyone ever remarked that he went to the exact same tailor as Paul Boesch? Those two wore exactly the same suit! Let me just pause here to point out that in less then three months we've seen Race defend the title in Japan, New York and Pacific Northwest. He was the definition of a travelling champ, and -- regardless of what you might think of him as a worker -- this is why he has such maximum respect in the business. Race is booed pretty hard and Martel, who is announced from "Paris, France", is cheered especially by the girls (and me). Commentator starts going on about how the belt is "technically in abeyance" once the match starts. I assume this is Owen himself on commentary? Sandy Barr is the ref and he's wearing an appalling 70s polo shirt. Unacceptable attire for a ref! Bodyslam by Martel. Arm drag and a beauty! Arm wrenches and Martel really tugs on that arm, shades of Jack Brisco. He lifts Race up by the arm and dumps him back down. Great limbwork. Someone on the tannoy system announces: "Billy Wolf, you're wanted on the fifth floor" Ha ha. Terrific armdrag by Martel and back into an armbar, which Owen calls a "wing lock". Race up to a vertical base. Goes for a gutwrench, can't hit because Martel blocks and hits a gutwrench instead. BEAUTIFUL arm drag by Martel, that was class. Into a "row row" arm wrench now. Don Owen's commentary style is ... laconic. Martel is rowing the boat with more vigour and tenacity and charisma than you'd ever see out of Howdy Doody. Up into an arm bar now. Finally Race hits a running knee lift. Goes to the top rope. Martel slams him off. Chinlock now and Martel cranks it wildly. This has been 100% Martel on offense so far, similar to the Race matches vs. Backlund and Steamboat. However, this has been much more enjoyable than both because Martel is so good at working holds and because he execution is so crisp. Race's selling is ok. His bumping, however, is of course exceptional. Race manages to get a suplex in for the first fall though. 1-0 to the champ. The fall came "completely against the run of play" as we'd say in soccer lingo. Well that's why he's the champ. Second fall and Martel goes straight into an abdominal stretch. Martel pounds on Race's back. Piledriver! Cover gets two, but Race gets a foot on the ropes. Martel has kicked the shit out of him here! Race begs off. Forearm smash. Elbow smash. Massive punch. Race is like one of those punchbag clowns with the weighted bottom, just swaying all over the place as Martel lays into him. Backbreaker by Martel. Gets two. Race goes for a suplex but Martel slips behind for a sleeper. Race seems to be going out here. Yes, arm goes down three times for 1-1. Jesus Christ, Martel just DESTROYED Race in the second fall. The ref wants Martel to bring Race around but the fans object. Good bit of business that. Third fall and Martel goes right back to the sleeper. Action goes outside. Race goes for a piledriver, but Martel reverses it. Huge slam from the outside to inside by Martel. Everything he's done in this match has looked great. Misses an elbow. Race goes for a falling headbutt but misses. Swinging punches by Martel now. Lateral press gets two. Gut punch by Race. Suplex by Race. Rare bit of offense for the champ. Sleeper by Martel again! Sandy Barr goes over to break it up ... the bell has gone for a time limit draw. Wow, well first of all, you know how much I despise this narrative. There's showing ass, there's making the champ look beatable, and then there's ... making the champ look like a complete fucking bitch. Harley took it to ridiculous extremes. On the one hand, anyone who saw this match live or air on TV would have come away legit beliving that Rick Martel was a world class wrestler, and boy does Race make him look like a million bucks here. But on the other, I'm sure there would have been some fans thinking "well why is THAT guy the champ? He can't string two moves together". There's being weak and then there's having almost zero offense. Despite all of that, I enjoyed this match a fair bit more than either the Steamboat or Backlund variants of this, and that was because -- to put it bluntly -- Martel was just a much more engaging and dynamic and energetic worker when he was on top that either guy. And this match played to a lot of his strengths. Race is probably one of the most unselfish workers in history by my reckoning -- in my view to the detriment of himself and of the belt. But if he's in there with someone like Martel, it can make for a very watchable and entertaining match. I could see some people who have less of a problem with the narrative and less of a problem with a babyface eating up 95%+ of all offense going higher. For me, it puts a cap on the highest possible rating. You're looking at -*1/4 almost autmatically just for that structure, so this is the highest possible rating a match like this can get from me, which is a testament to how GREAT Martel was in 1980. Anyone who thinks Flair worked too weak as champ needs to see some of this shit. ***3/4 Harley Race vs. Sivi Afi (5/80) This is some obscure shit right here folks. I think this is from New Zealand. The ring has "On the Mat" written on the apron, which confirms that. If Wiki is to be believed, the commentators are Ernie Leonard and Steve Rickard. Afi is a lightweight sort of guy. Hiptoss from him. Bodyslam. This is in a cavernous-looking studio arena. Afi works a headlock until Race nails a back suplex. Knee drop. And another one. Fairplay, his knee drops are legit great. Butterfly suplex! Cover gets two. Irish whip. Afi goes for a dropkick. Race evades and Afi lands on his ass. I've just realised something ... this match was clearly for TV. Race works strong as fuck on TV. Then at an arena show, he'll work much weaker. I guess it makes sense. Great knee drop from Race. Vertical suplex. And a beauty. 1, 2, 3. Afi was meant to be quite a big star in New Zealand from what I've read, this wasn't a jobber match. If this match was intended to say "look at how fucking amazing the world champ is, look at how high the standards of the NWA are", it did its job. I enjoyed it for what it was. ***

I thought everyone was a bit harsh on DiBiase in the AJ 80s set watching. Needlessly harsh on him in fact.

I have cast precisely one vote so far.

Just wanted to chime in to say that that Bruno poster you did is the best shit I've ever seen and I want to make it the official Titans logo.

Ha ha, I think that can be the final time I pimp those. I am planning on trying to get back into Lucha 80s set at some point, but it never feels like the most compelling thing on the watch pile.

Just out of interest goc, what Japanese wrestling have you watched? I found 80s (and then 70s and 90s) All Japan super-easy to get into, partly because there are a lot of familiar faces around (The Funks, Hansen, DiBiase, Gordy, etc.) and partly because the style is closer to something like Mid-South or Crockett than anything else. Think Wahoo or Garvin vs. Flair and there it is. I say this as one of the people who has found Lucha quite impenetrable. A lot of different stuff. I've tried to watch some of the 70s stuff with The Funks vs. Jumbo/Baba and couldn't get thru them without falling asleep. I watched some matches from the 80s All Japan set on youtube to see if I should get it. I didn't end up getting it. I did like 80s All Japan more than most of what I have seen but it still wasn't something I could see myself watching a lot of. Part of it is that most of the matches just feel too long with a lot of stuff in the beginning of the match that ultimately doesn't matter. I can see the match lengths being an issue for some. There are some good sprints and brawls though. Funks vs. Sheik and Abby from 78 (one of my all-time fave matches, 79 also good) Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen retirement match from 83 goes about 11 minutes. If you like blood n guts, at least check out those two.

Just out of interest goc, what Japanese wrestling have you watched? I found 80s (and then 70s and 90s) All Japan super-easy to get into, partly because there are a lot of familiar faces around (The Funks, Hansen, DiBiase, Gordy, etc.) and partly because the style is closer to something like Mid-South or Crockett than anything else. Think Wahoo or Garvin vs. Flair and there it is. I say this as one of the people who has found Lucha quite impenetrable.

How does he compare as a draw to Verne or Hogan?

I've been away, and listened to it on a flight / drive back from Scotland.

I listened to this entire show again yesterday, because there was some stuff I missed first time around. Really good stuff, and I'm also wondering if there's any footage of the Rude-Flair stuff. Some of those cards Kris was running down were hilarious. Anyone know what sort of shape Hiro Matsuda was in circa 1987? I literally can't believe they ran with Sullivan vs. Matsuda on top in Greensboro. There must be another story to explain the atrociousness of that card. Kris mentioned in passing that he's planning a two-part look at the decline of JCP. I thought I'd share a show Chad and I did about two years ago on that same topic when we reviewed the Good Old Days doc (second hour): http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-47-jim-crockett-promotions-the-good-old-days/ Super interested in this panel's takes on what factors were to blame primarily and who was to blame primarily. If Kris is planning two parts on that, I can only imagine the depth that's going to be covered in. This show has been like podcast mana for me.