Ricky Jackson

I know. How we ever figured out how to go online, let alone construct a message board full of thoughtful discourse about such a low, brainless, form of entertainment is beyond me

This was posted in the YouTube links thread, but since there are only 15 days left and a lot of $ still to be raised I thought I would create this thread to try and scare up some donations. I think this is a super worthy cause. Previously, the footage is of poor quality and with, let's say, questionable commentary. What has been restored so far looks so amazing. Kickstarter link here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mitgoji/1971-1982-pro-wrestling-super-8mm-film-hd-restoration?ref=project_link

Exactly. Just as an example, I looked at Hogan's record at the Spectrum from 84-87 not too long ago. Attendance for Hogan main evented shows fluctuated wildly depending on the heel. Savage and Orndorff moved the needle. Patera and Adonis did not. Hogan himself wasn't a guarentee for a strong house

That doesn't discount all the years the Sheik was a huge draw, most famously in Toronto. Rarely bellow 10k in MLG, twice a month for 5 years. Remove him from those cards and you dont have that attraction. The fans truly hated him and wanted to see him finally lose. Sure, TV made George. But he was still a draw. Not for a very long time, but he was the reason people were buying tickets, to see this outrageous character from TV. Rogers was a major draw at his peak on the early 60s. This cant be waved away as him being "just one of the first TV stars". Like the Sheik he was despised, but also for some, a cool heel. Doesn't matter, he drew. Graham was a reach, yes, as outlined. Still, I would contend he was a draw, with his unique for the time look and hip promo style, just not on the same level as the others I mentioned. His track record at MSG as far as being part of sold out main events was amazing if nothing else. Another one I thought of later was Ray Stevens in 1960s SF. I saw the numbers years ago in the WON and they were very impressive

The Sheik? Gorgeous George? Buddy Rogers? Superstar Graham?

I had Dusty at #7 last time. Cant remember if I was the high vote or not. Probably. I definitely was the high vote on Wrestling II, Slaughter, Bruno, and Savage

I meant specifically shoot fighting at the dawn of the 20th century. How sophisticated was it then? How many rules, if any?

Pointlessly bloated is kinda the only way they know how to do anything

The funny thing about the 2-3 hr matches was they were totally worked. Most shoot fights would last at most a few minutes, until one wrestler hooked another into submission (unless there were extensive rules limiting what one could and couldn't do). I think the reason promoters thought long matches were a good idea was basically from the belief that if you were going to get people to come out in droves for a big match that you had to make sure the length was comparable to other spectator sports, like baseball, boxing, etc. I'm also not sure when the concept of undercards developed. I think a lot of the early big matches were presented as stand alone attractions, though I could be totally wrong

I think the pro wrestling was a shoot pre-1920s (or whenever) claim is usually made by folks who haven't studied any of the history and just think that because wrestlers in the old days didnt have flashy gimmicks or do obvious worked spots in the modern sense, and matches went on for several hours, etc, that it must have been legit. I dont recall exactly, but didnt the late-90s doc "The Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling" try to push that pro wrestling was a shoot pre-Gold Dust Trio? That was on A&E and replayed weekly it seemed for years afterward, probably helping to spread the pro wrestling was legit myth amongst the masses. There were actual shoot matches from time to time, but they happened behind closed doors. The whole point of pro wrestling existing was to make money, either through marks or by gambling, and was much more lucrative when the results could be manipulated

There were a lot of successful stadium shows in the 80s, but there were several ill-advised ones (later Parade of Champions, later Superdome shows, even Wrestlerock) full of swaths of empty seats that looked bad on TV or in the mags

And apparently they originally wanted "Jane" by Jefferson Starship for OC (was this his theme on the indies?) which is a great song, but the Pixies seems like a much better fit

1984 WWF is one of my favorite years for any promotion ever, honestly. Great talent. Great angles. Great feuds. Great matches. Absolutely no idea how much credit Scott gets for it all though The evidence from his 89 run suggests someone not suitable for the changing times, with all the examples already mentioned. Would we have got Flair vs Funk without him? (one of my all-time favorite feuds). Muta's ascension? Probably for the best how things panned out

In an alternate universe you started one in 2018

I've struggled with post-kayfabe wrestling for 20 years or so. When I was a kid/teenager in the 80s and 90s I cared about my favorite wrestlers. I got a high out of them winning just like I did from rooting for my favorite sports teams. My entering adulthood basically coincided with kayfabe being discarded-Montreal, ECW, shoot videos, Mankind's book, etc-and for a while I found that fascinating. But eventually I lost interest in everything. When I look back on it, I'm not sure if I just became too old to care like I did or if wrestling had changed so much that it was hard to care anymore. Anyway, I've returned to wrestling time and again when I found something to care about (besides returning to watch old footage and study history). In 2005 it was actually TNA and Samoa Joe and something that felt fresh. We all know that didnt last. CM Punk and Bryan made me care at times, but it wasn't the same as Bret Hart and, yes, Benoit (pre-WWF, really). NXT and the women made me care again. Okada. Time and again I lost interest. But at some point in the last 5 years I made my peace with it. Wrestling has changed, it changed a long time ago, and I'm not going to complain about how things were so much better in the old days. The wrestling I grew up loving in the 80s and 90s was hated by a lot of fans who grew up loving wrestling in the 60s and 70s. That's just how it goes. I'm old now. Whatever wrestling has become is mostly fine, it's just evolved, like everything does. Except WWE. WWE is shit

I've been considering that for the future. For the Infantino art if nothing else

Could it be with fans for the first time in a year, they want to ensure a positive response/memorable moment they can replay for years and years, which Bryan winning would guarantee. Assuming Bryan is going to win

Well, at least Andre and, I think, Patterson decided to rib Piper for Mania and changed the paint so it wouldn't come off right away, so Piper was stuck looking like that for several days afterward. Or so the story goes

Yeah, I think you would want to save Taker for a Mania when things are "back to normal" or whatever post-pandemic will be

Honestly, Piper vs Bad News should've probably been erased from history ages ago

At this rate I'll get to 2021 in probably two years or so and I'm fine with that

Done and done

Yeah, I was considering trying to sell my collection a few months ago, it's been mostly collecting dust for the last 20 years, but when I started going through it for inventory I fell in love with it again. It's not a huge collection or anything, at least by hardcore standards, maybe at most 1200 books. There are some going for decent money on ebay. If I do sell I'd like to do it in the least amount of transactions possible. We'll see, part of me wants to take advantage of the boom, but another is still too attached to the damn things

Also, attn folks out there with Marvel comic collections from, mostly, the 60s-80s, the back issue market is booming for the first time in forever. The success of the Marvel movies, but really accelerated by WandaVision and Falcon and Winter Soldier, is causing first appearance books to skyrocket. If anyone has any key Captain America issues associated with characters from Falcon and Winter Soldier, and you're not attached to them, now is the time sell

Ok, now it makes sense. I thought it was airing at the same time