WingedEagle

I feel like 3.5-3.75 may see a disproportionate amount of traffic from me, and then again at 4 as my hesitation is to push anything into the elite territory unless I'm incredibly sure of it. Parv, I need to rewatch a few things from this year before making my random and very incomplete addition to your 4.75+ thread.

Awesome, thanks so much for posting these. Very interesting that the same guy who has Lebron at 4 has Mikan at 10. Wouldn't expect to see that kind of pairing. Then again he didn't put Jordan 1 so I'd be inclined to dismiss the entire list It warms the heart to see that you & JDW both showed proper respect for Duncan. While I know that generally being considered a top 10-12 all timer isn't anything to snuff at, it often seems as though he's an afterthought in these discussions. We can all quibble about whether someone was slotted 1-2 spots too high or low, but the big variances are what make it interesting. Lebron at 4, Mikan 10, Bird 11, etc. Russell is always the conundrum for me. You can't dismiss the rings, but I just don't know how to compare someone from that era against anyone basically post-Kareem.

That's generally where I am, at least at the top. 5 = Legit Greatest Match of All Time Candidate 4.75 = Slightly less but immediately feels like a top MOTY at worst. 4.5 = What I'd call a MOTY nominee but for whatever reason feels like it could be moved from the top of a year's list. Its around that 4.5 and below level where things get murky, especially comparing across eras, much less years. There may be a random AJ tag from '93 that I put at 4.25 which if I'm being honest is better than a crazy Young Bucks spotfest from today, but my gut there may also be to go 4.25 when watching through 2015 goggles. On the one hand Its all kind of irrelevant at the end of the day, but on the other I wish I had some better way of tracking what I thought about a couple matches from different eras when I look back at those ratings.

Not that I'm someone to seek out something I expect to be bad, but where is the Takayama who was bashed for his work in mid-late 90s WON? I haven't checked out anything from the early tag days when he went to AJPW so perhaps its there but I'm fully on board that in UWFI he's passable at worst and usually been very interesting and unique, even for that setting.

The only "Some Like It Hot" worth a damn stars Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis. Nobody's perfect!

I have a question about consistency in ratings no matter how you do it -- stars, letters, words, cryptography or anything else that works for you. How consistent do you try to be when rating matches and how much do you think you succeed? The thought occurred to me when looking over JVK's ****3/4 stars+ thread. Many of the matches I've rated near the top of that scale are as you might imagine those I consider all time classics, and a great deal of them are from the 90s All Japan era. When I watch something today -- whether its an outrageous spotfest or Brock/Reigns -- and its time to drop a rating I find myself asking how I'd compare it with some from that era. If its not on the same level I'll ding 1/4 or 1/4 star just so that its not on that same level when I refer back to my own otherwise silly rankings. Some days I'm glad I do that, others I think its silly to make that comparison. I don't have a strong opinion as to what's right or wrong here but am curious how others consider this kind of "big picture" perspective when throwing snowflakes or their personal equivalent.

Looking for some help from people that have been ROH regulars for the last couple years. Did Lethal's push over that time and culminating in the build to this show effectively portray him the man to dethrone Briscoe? Curious because one thing that's stood out to me since jumping back into the weekly TV this year is how strongly they've pushed Briscoe as undefeated in singles action for a couple of years. Let me know if I'm reading more into it but it sure seemed like they were building that up for something more climactic.

#4?? This Yohe fella watches too much sportscenter Lebron probably makes my top 10 at this point. With a ring this year he would've been a no-brainer top 10, whereas now I'll still force myself to think about who's ahead of him even if he ends up there. Who were the top 15 or so on eveyrone's list?

I've only been back following ROH seriously for a few months now, but am trying to understand Lethal taking the title. Do we think he's a short term transitional champ? His character and style don't seem to fit the profile of what they usually book on top. Maybe I'm in the minority but everything I've seen from him is more along the lines of King Barrett than Wade Barrett, lead Nexus heel, if you know what I mean.

Agreed, they really walk that line well by always offering a wink & a nod with their schtick without letting it completely take over a match and become some parody. If I had to watch a full 3 hour show of that act up & down the card it would tire pretty quickly, but they stand out in a fun and fresh way.

Love the Young Bucks. Have yet to watch a match of theirs that did not entertain. I get why they're not everyone's cup of tea but its good for this soul.

Yesterday I told the folks at Starbucks my name was Virgil and damn near broke out in dance when they called that my drink was ready. Good times!

A very charismatic guy with an unique gimmick who plays it well and works hard in the ring with a somewhat unique offense. Got it. Definitely missing those things.

What am I missing on Dalton Castle?

Where is Cody's eulogy or any others available online?

This is where I am on Silas. I feel he's a solid worker, with decent charisma. Besides Elgin on the ROH roster I can't see who anyone Young would be better in their spot. That really says it. I like him and think he fits in well where slotted. But I can't say I have any desire to see him featured beyond that role.

So what? How does it not make great matches and story telling? I think the finish is a large part of a match. Variable how much and I've always wondered just how much a great finish can add to a good match or similarly a poor finish take away from what was to that point a great finish. Where the finish is weak that takes away from the match for me. Your list happened to highlight just how often Hart went to the same well. I enjoyed some of those finishes when they happened, while others (Piper, DBS, KOTR '93) took away a great deal from the solid work that led up to them.

The Sharpshooter isn't fluky. Diesel's jackinfe isn't fluky. Davey Boy's powerslam isn't fluky. Kicking the ropes out of a sleeper and getting one shoulder up while locked in a submission? That's fluky. Doing it multiple times? That's slip on a banana peel to defend the title fluky. Same for a cradle in a major world title defense. I understand using that type of finish from time to time and it can be a great storytelling device. But when your champion is relying on it that often the story it tells is that he is just getting by rather than conclusively defeating his challengers.

Curious about this last part from people critical of the match. Did you just take issue with what they did or found it silly? Or did you really not like the match? I can't tell from some of the comments others are posting if they actively hated it, or for all I know thought it was great but didn't like how they got there.

Feels like they're hotshotting Rollins/HHH for Summerslam. That seems pretty rushed, but if it refocuses things on Lesnar I'm in. Last night was the first time in a Rollins felt like a big deal.

That really is quite a lot of fluky finishes. Wonder why he went to the same well so often.

Ha that's the other side of it. I love reading certain folks' detailed thoughts on a match. I haven't been able to use these write-ups as easily to determine if I want to check something out, but it definitely provides more fun reading material.

I like Meltzer's system because I'm familiar with it. The best part of it is frankly how widespread it is. After seeing someone rate quite a number of matches, whether its Meltzer, Loss, Parv, Scott Keith, Alan, my aunt or anyone else, you develop a sense of what that rating means to that person. You'd have the same issue with any other rating system -- what does an 8 mean to Meltzer? What's it mean to Wade Keller or someone at the Torch? At the end of the day its a quick way to take the temperature of a match according. Just need to get a feel for that person and then you'll know whether to use their ratings to help you ID matches worth checking out.

Incredibly disappointed that this is going on at the same time as game 5 of the finals. I can almost always disregard other playoff games for a PPV but Finals will always win out. Big question is whether to watch this or Raw tomorrow and the other on Wednesday.

Not defending these practices, but hindsight is a big help here. There's a balance between nurturing potential talent and weeding out those you don't want to waste resources on.