Badlittlekitten

I wouldn't mind that cos it's at least something. The problem with the angle is that there's been so little progress in so long a time. There's long term booking and there's taking the piss. Plus we still don't really know what their manifesto is or what they're there for and almost all their members are still in masks, making it hard to care about these anonymous Sons of Anarchy knock-offs that will turn out to be a crew of jobbers anyway. And they lose EVERY MATCH and shit themselves during every confrontation even if they outnumber the babyfaces 10 -1, which wouldn't be such a huge problem if they weren't the focal point of every show and still presented as a 'threat'. Now they've started talking about a 'higher power' which I imagine is going to be Jarret/Bischoff. Fucks sake. Surely the worst faction in wrestling history. Great entrance music mind. Pretend? Kaz and Daniels have been the must amusing/hilarious thing in wrestling for several months now and Aries is exceptional at everything he does. I don't want to sound like I'm humping Tna's leg but there was a period when Impact was a quality show, certainly better than the three hour slog of Raw. Everyone agrees that Main Event is the best wrestling show in the world at the moment right?

For a while during the summer it was, when it was centred around Bobby Roode and Aries. Seemed like it was going in a fresh direction and carving out its own personality rather than being WWE-lite. Then the Aces and 8's happened.

I just watched the Luger/Sting match for the first time, and yeah, it's kind of forgettable, but it's easy to see why it was so highly regarded in 1991 and I don't see why anyone would have a huge problem with that.

Didn't enjoy it as much as Loss but still a decent street fight between four tough bastards. Liked the general sloppiness of this match like the bit when Butch mounts the turnbuckle but realises that Windham hasn't noticed him so Reed gets down and runs at Windham with a knee and punches the shit out of him. Just little things that give it a spontaneous 'brawl' feel. Reed takes a STIFF chair shot for the time from Arn before he mouths "Son of A Bitch!" and repays him. I had no prior knowledge of this feud and this match gave me no clue as to who the heels/babyfaces were which could be a criticism if I was nitpicking. The biggest set back of course was the time. Still, good stuff.

Ha, I do enjoy her more than most.

Bear in mind this is just a list of guys I enjoy watching the most from the WWF and the small amount of JCP I've seen. (Watched next to nothing from the other territories. I'm working on it.) No order. Flair Windham Tully Funk Hogan Dusty Savage HBK Punk Fab Moolah Jerry, Eddy, Buddy, Vader and Harley are all likely to make my list once I've seen more footage.

I was in the middle of a long winded response but thanks for saying pretty much what I was going for in a succinct way. You can't measure the quality of music at all which is why the comparison to goat wrestlers is uncharacteristically stupid for this forum.

If you'd said something like that in the first place instead of drivel like "I don't think there's any argument at all to put Charles, Brown, Crosby or Armstrong (or indeed Sinatra) in the same conversation as Dylan or the Beatles" then no one would have called you up for such narrow/dim views. You're a Residents fan though so you can't be all bad.

What you're going to put Notorious BIG against Dylan? How about Prodigy? How about DJ Shadow? Once another genre produces a Dylan, maybe then they'll get brought up in GOAT conversations. It hasn't happened yet. It will. There just aren't any other people with 9-10+ bona-fide ***** albums. That is why it is just Beatles and Dylan. Why can't I put BIG against Dylan? Cos he didn't sell as much records? Cos he weren't 60's? Cos he, dear me, doesn't play 'real' instruments? I missed the memo that said music is objective. Mojo magazine says Dylan released 9 '*****' albums so it must be true I guess. There's no doubt that Dylan and Beatles are a huge influence on Rock music if that's what you're getting at. But rock music is not the world.

The music analogy is ridiculous. So rock music is all that's relevant yeah? Bollocks. I've not a clue on what my 'bar' is as I've not a clue who my GOAT's are outside of maybe two people. So, um . . . two then. It's all pretty interchangeable after that.

After watching this for the first time I'm surprised by the slightly negative views on this match. I'm slogging my way through Big Egg at the moment and this has easily been the best match so far. Loved Combat repaying Hotta's stiff strikes with the STARE OF DEATH and, in one of the match highlights, spitting in Hotta's face. There's hate in the air. Glorious hate. Hotta doesn't always bother with the 'looking vulnerable' thing in wrestling but she does it pretty well during this match, and I got a kick out of her puffed out cheeks and the "I'm about to puke!" face during the figure four spot. There was a nice little bit where Combat lifted her into the firemens carry position but Hotta escapes, but before you can say "swift boot to the mush" Toyoda shows that she was ready all along with a boot of her own to shove her away and lays her out with a clothesline. I really didn't mind the high impact stuff filling out a large portion of the match. I guess the sight of relatively large girls doing forceful looking powerbombs and germans off the turnbuckle was enough to impress me. Simple lad. I didn't even mind Yumiko's botch at the end, it kinda played into her losing her shit at the end. Well, if you want it to it could anyway. What was up with that by the way? Odd. It sorta worked though cuz the stroppy cow got her comeuppance in the end which is ultimately why I enjoyed it like I did. Definitely one of the better Hotta performances I've seen. Kong v Toyota is next up

The default position of GOAT and 'Who Is Better' type discussion seems to be in ring work only, which is the reason I don't get involved. If the voting in this thread included a "Total package (in ring, mic work plus look, other intangibles such as X Factor)" option that dropped 'drawing power' then that'll be closer to the way I would like to see wrestlers discussed. I guess what I'm saying is that I would enjoy reading a favourite of all time thread more at this point as opposed to another greatest of all time thread. Nothing wrong with the latter and I've discovered a lot of great things through this site as a result, but it gets to a point where all the lists look the same. Including mic work when assessing Japanese or Mexican guys is of course problematic but it shouldn't stop them ol' intangibles being included. Plus you can get a grasp of a character through their mannerisms, facials etc.

Sweet, finally found it on there

Thanks for the information re: schoolgirl following. It's a shame we'll likely never see atmospheres like that again.

I only watch 80's AJW and current WWE/Tna at the moment so my list will greatly reflect that. Too difficult to put into any kind of order; Dump Matsumoto I've already talked about her in the AJW thread. Perhaps the greatest heel I've ever seen. Love the sight of her and her leather clad gang ripping shit up at ringside before a match has even began. Love her kicking the shit out of referees for seemingly no reason. Love the ridiculous over use of weapons and interference and the general air of chaos she brings. Maybe it's because it's fresh in my mind but the hair match vs Chigusa is the best match EVA. Bull Nakano Just look at her. The most visually striking wrestler ever? Not much to add here except I love the karate kick thing she does. The nun chuck spot is always cool too. In terms of being a monster heel she's never been as convincing as Aja or Dump, but then that's probably just me finding her too . . cute to be a monster. She's good bad but she's not evil. Akira Hokuto She never looked like a monster or even a mean shooter but there is just something so, um, badass about Hokuto. Obviously the knowledge of her injuries help - she completed a match with a broken freakin' neck - but it's the way she carries herself; even when surrounded by giants like Bull or Aja, she's the alpha female, as highlighted by the LCO days. Couple that with her frenetic wrestling style, legendary theme music and a cool as fuck look (in her post-Wham days) then you have an easy top 15 GOAT for me, probably higher once I've seen more. Christopher Daniels I only started following Tna last summer when it was relatively hot. It's gradually turned into the embarrassing WWE-lite show I always imagined it to be but one constant source of enjoyment throughout has been Daniels. Apparently he was a bland babyface once. You'd never guess it. The Curryman strut, the appletini, the goofy facials, the sleazy promos - I don't think I've found a guy to be this consistently hilarious and flat out entertaining since corporate Rock all that time ago. Matches? Well the one with him and Kaz vs Angle/Styles was probably the best tag of last year. Austin Aries Reason two why TNA's worth pursuing. I'll bring up 1998 corporate Rock again (Rocks peak imo) cos that's what the sideburns, sunglasses and great douche promos bring to mind most. There's a bit of Punk in their too but Punk was never this funny. So crisp in the ring, him vs Bully, Roode, Joe and the Hardy ladder match from last year are all top notch. Strange that no WWE guys have stood out enough to be listed as I've been pretty high on the WWE for the last couple of months. 2012 was terrible but they've done promising little things lately so some honourable faves - Bryan, Punk, Sandow, Cesaro, Uso's, Ambrose, Eve Torres, Ziggler. I wanted to include the awesome Bray Wyatt in the initial five but he only had a couple of squash matches before getting injured. Look forward to him getting the call up. Oh yeah, and Tully Blanchard. I agree, how can you not love the sneaky little fucker? He is wrestling.

Cheeky question, does anyone have a link to a Wrestle Kingdom 7 torrent? Can't find it anywhere and it's becoming an increasing pain to avoid spoilers.

I was never a big Bret fan as a kid, it was Owen I was backing in their 1994 feud. Owen was my favourite in the world in 94 and him getting the win at WWM 10 is one of my fondest memories. I guess I've always been more of a heel guy and it wasn't until his 97 turn that I started to get more interested in Bret. He was always too bland for me but his whiny promos now had a use. WWF started doing the 'GOAT', 'living legend' hype thing for him which you buy as a kid. After Montreal my fandom peaked, partly because of sympathy and partly because this is a guy who I pretty much grew up with and kind of neglected in his prime years and now he was gone for good. Then Shawn went too (who I've always preferred to be honest) and I started to miss the old lot which is one of the many reasons I never really got in to the Attitude era. Now I've grown up I've kind of soured on him a bit. I've since discovered the likes of Flair, Funk, Race, Blanchard, Savage, Dump, Ambrose, hell even rediscover the greatness of Austin, all people that make me laugh or scare the shit out of me or . . . just do something. Give me someone with magnetism and a personality. A guy with a long list of decent matches alone isn't enough for me. It was reading his book that done it for me though. It's not the drugs and the sleeping around I have a problem with - that's his business - I just come out of it thinking that he's a arrogant self entitled mark twat. And I'm a complete hypocrite cos I actively like Shawn for them very reasons. But his is a brash, in your face, comical style of cockiness that transmitted into his performance and made his matches more fun to watch. Bret just has that quite aloofness about him that rubs me up the wrong way. Gahh. I thinks it's about time I dusted off his DVD set again. For the record his match vs Piper at WM8 is for me the best Bret singles match.

Glad this topic came up because 80s AJW is all I've been watching recently, although I've focused on from about 84 onwards. Youtube is a godssend for this stuff. The matches haven't been at the same standard as the (limited) 90's stuff I've seen but when I get through to watching the later AJW I am sure going to miss a lot - Dump and her crew, Crush Girls and in particular Chigusa's astonishing ability to draw sympathy, Bull looking like the hottest girl in the building, the brilliant/cheesy entrance music everyone seems to have (I know Hokuto would go on to have one of the best themes ever but, seriously, everybody's theme here is magic. If there was some kind of cd comp and it included Tokyo Sweethearts and Dream Orca themes I think my life may be complete) and most of all i'll miss those crowds. Were did the schoolgirls go? Did they leave with the Crush Girls or is it just a case of their male/adult fanbase growing larger? Out of all the girls I've discovered from this period the one that I've come to love, like truly LOVE, is Dump Matsumoto. Why do I never see her in any GOAT discussion? Every match involving her is a blast, the liberal weapons use, the ref beatings and the hilarious no selling are golden and the anarchy and heat she brings never gets stale. I know O.J made a point earlier in the thread that nothing she did was original which is fair enough but I can't see anybody being near this great in this role. The most terrifying heel I've ever seen. And funny as fuck to boot. One match that I really enjoyed but have never seen discussed is the Jaguar Yokota vs La Galactica from Feb 85. I espeascially liked La Galactica and her relentless abuse of Yokota's arm, which looked a state by the end.

Glad I stayed up for that. I liked the ending, and getting AJ away from Cena will be um . . . . the best for both of them. Evil AJ is bearable. They need to start giving Ziggler some decent clean wins now.

Good show so far. I don't mind Barret losing so much cos I've a feeling that they're still gonna push the fuck out of him. Maybe a rumble winner. Surprisingly good match too. The TLC delivered on all levels. It's been a long time since I've seen a wwe match with that intensity and sense of chaos. Love that there was an actual strategy used for the win. The Shield looked like players off that and lets hope that continues.

His push has been executed well but I think everything else they've done with Cesaro has been poorly done. The anti-american thing is outdated and isn't getting over to the point that his match last night with the intercontinental champ was getting boring chants. He was a rugby payer weren't he? Utilise that a bit more. Surely the kids that they're aiming to would dig more 'larger than life' characters. It's no coincidence that Sandow has gotten more over in the space of a few months than a lot of other guys on the roster that have been there years.

Good grief, the conclusion to the Chigusa Nagayo vs Dump Matsumoto hair match is uncomfortable to watch. I except that one of the points of a wrestling match is to manipulate the viewers emotions but this was maybe done too well here, almost to the point of emotional porn. And no, if the crowd was anything other than thousands of crying schoolgirls it wouldn't bother me. But damn, that's the intention and here it is. Chigusa goes on to get her comeuppance right? RIGHT?

Ha, Brother Love. I remember I would always fast forward through his bits on the old VHS tapes as a kid. He even made a Piper segment boring. It's funny the biggest thing that the character will be remembered for was introducing the Undertaker. Like chalk and cheese. How and when did Paul Bearer appear anyway?

Okay, it seems that I've started to do this blog thing on here now. http://prowrestlingonly.com/blog/badlittlekitten/index.php

Alright chaps thanks. I've started to put together some playlists to devour in. I've started with all the noteworthy matches from 84 - 86 which contains 40+ matches alone! I know what i'll be doing over Christmas. I'm only really familiar with 93 AJW and the Dreamslams so pretty much all these girls are new to me. My word these crowds were amazing. Living and dying through every near fall. Different atmospheres work for different reasons but these 80's joshi crowds are up there with the old JCP tbs studio crowds as my favourites. The more kids the better basically. I'm going to be sick of them in a couple of matches aren't I? How the hell did the business go from this to barely being able to draw a few hundred in 2012? Actually don't answer that cos I'm sure it's very complex and boring. But still it makes me a wee bit sad.