SteveJRogers

Hit submit before I could finish.

Shockmaster = HOFer!

Part of me wonders if they are waiting for Bilington to pass so they can induct the tag team, without Dynamite Kid going off the rails in an induction speech.

IWC sucttlebutt is talking DDP and Rude so far.

From what I remember, it was what you'd expect from Lou portraying a Vito Corleone parody.

To be fair, and yes I know that did have a lot to do with the AE at the time hit pieces, but if there was ever a time for a major mass media outlet to latch onto the idea that "its cool to be at least a casual wrestling fan" it would be this post-PG era that we are currently in with the WWE.

Considering their treatment of NFL issues, don't hold your breath on that one!

Him and Striker were the worst when it comes to trying too hard at a time when they were trying to over emphasize the "fans that are now Superstars" mindset. While they were legit fans, their style is of the trying too hard to sound like a smark. Striker marking out for Diesel at the Rumble is the "best" example of why fans (not homers per se) make bad broadcasters!

Or agrue over points as if the Orwell-esque official narrative has been changed because they don't care for whom is telling or crafting the narrative. That pretty much is the point of discussion right now!

I don't think anyone is saying Vince was right, its more arguing over if Vince was so paranoid and desperate that he thought Bischoff was that brazen to give a big fuck you to legal and the WWF by having Bret walk onto Nitro with the WWF title in hand.

It doesn't assume all of that. It assumes that Bret was leaving and they were willing to let him leave rather than match the WCW offer. It also assumes that they needed some really big angle to make up for him leaving. The only reason you think that is because WCW would be a worthless entity by 2001, so worthless no one would air the product so they were bought on the cheap by the WWF! Had things stayed the course that they were on after Montreal, if the inmates didn't take over the asylum and creative didn't screw everything up in late 1998 through 1999-2000 (especially giving Russo free reign) we could quite possibly be talking about the reverse happening. With WCW getting a better TV deal elsewhere (Tardis wouldn't have lost any sleep over not renewing a deal or even wanting to do a new one with WCW) and who knows, maybe Vince would have been taken over by whomever gained control of WCW by 2001. And yes, you are assuming that Vince was willing to commit business suicide because that is what they very nearly did with the aftermath of the Screwjob. Would you do that and NOT let everyone in the company in on it for their own good, and their own morale? You think Vince would allow for one of the darkest periods in company history to happen because he worked everyone in his own company, no matter how great of a heel character he'd make his on screen persona?

That also assumes WWF knew how bad the locker room was getting in WCW, and signing Bret in the middle of the hottest angle in YEARS would contribute to the comany's downfall. Like they were banking on them dicking around with Bret in non-sensical mid-card crap, turning to be a lap dog, etc. Banking on WCW's creative pissing away the white hot Sting vs the nWo angle, as well as badly mishandling Goldberg's entire reign as champion (never mind Goldberg had just debuted in the fall of 1997, the WWF somehow knew WCW would piss all over something that organic) and the end of said reign. 1998 WCW doesn't happen, to quote The Rock, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE WWF WAS DOING! Yeah Austin was hot, but somehow, WCW was still leading the War. See THAT's where the revisionism comes in. Yeah, Austin v McMahon on Raw did end the ratings streak, but it wasn't until the wheels were going off WCW by the end of 1998 that the WWF would never be topped again. That is too long of a gambit to play in November of 1997, especially with all the negativity and gloom that the company was under in weeks following.

Make up a story that makes him sound like a paranoid mess to...make him not sound like a paranoid mess? Make up a story that makes it sound like Eric was actually planning on doing it instead of the truth that even if he did want to (and lets be honest he probably did), there would be a hundred Turner lawyers shutting it down before it happened. Like CS said, this had been part of the Montreal narrative, official or linked to the WWF or not, SINCE THE STORY WAS BREAKING! Unless Montreal was a work all along, there is no way to justify this stance as being "made up in recent years." Especially considering that yes, it does paint Vince as the desperate and paranoid loon that he was at the time, unless its to throw you off the scent of it being a work (LOL) why on Earth would it be part of any narrative, official or not?

Geez, that was the whole POINT of Montreal! Nothing else. Neither Vince nor Shawn trusted Bret in "doing the right thing" based on Bret being so against jobbing to Shawn. Other wise, why the hell would they have gone through the trouble of making sure the belt ended up around Shawn Michaels at the end of the night? In hindsight, sure, Bret even suggested dropping it to anyone but Shawn, but that was the sticking point, Vince wanted Shawn to have the title at that point, Bret would do the honors to anyone BUT Shawn, and Vince was afraid Bischoff was too much of a POS that he'd have Bret go back on his word, and show up on Nitro with the WWF title. Plain and simple. The only way you could argue this is a "new narrative" to fit the warming of relations with persons wronged in the past is if you buy any theory that the whole screwjob was a work all along (and if you think Vince was going to let a shitty state of morale in the company and locker room get worse than it was that year due to Hart leaving through a screwjob, there is a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd could sell to you), which of course is a whole new kettle of fish anyway!

Luger didn't show up throwing his US Express/Allied Powers garb into a dumpster fire, though, he just showed up as if the last few years never happened and he was the same Lex Luger that lost to Sting at Superbrawl his last night with the company. It was a holy shit moment, but it was like any other random former guy showing up. IOW, its not treated as the same "this was a fuck you" moment to the WWF the way the title in the trash was. Hence the latter, and not the former was shown in that video package I mentioned.

Vince "didn't know" that Bischoff supposedly never would have had Bret throw the belt in the trash because of the lawsuit. Still. The whole "Madusa throwing the belt is the first major blow of the MNW" is a brand new narrative that magically appeared because of Madusa's HoF induction. Now we're getting even sillier with "Madusa throwing the belt is the reason why Montreal happened", when infact, yeah, the very fact Madusa threw down the belt and the following lawsuits made the very idea of WCW doing the same shit again with Bret Hart quite insane. WCW were stupid, but not that stupid. The ONLY way I can call bullshit on it influencing Montreal is Vince not trusting that Bret Hart would be that good of a former WWF solider not to give in to Bischoff's demands to run a "Title Belt on TV angle", brand new boss or not. Vince was that desperate and paranoid, and Bischoff was that much of a petty narcissistic bully that Vince would buy pulling it off, pending lawsuit or not. Its not that hard to believe considering this is carnie style bull shit we are dealing with!

1) It did lead to the aforementioned lawsuit. Unlike the WCW Big Gold (which was spat on), it was referred to its exact name, so it was a big deal at the time. WCW did use it often as a "memorable shots fired moment" in branded best of Nitro packages. 2) Watch that Lonley Road of Faith WWF history video produced in early 2002, it is spotlighted on there as a "bad times" clip. So you really can't sit on your "WWE revisionism bull shit high horse" when they used it as soon as they had the rights to the clip!

If Lucas/Disney released Star Wars Holiday Special or Disney managed to secure the rights to officially release the Corman Fantastic Four, I'd imagine the reaction would be the same!

That impression seemed loud and clear with Shane's responses concerning Trips on that podcast he did with Foley after his return.

The show is meant to exist in kayfabe. Hence what Bliss did was considered briefly breaking character from her self centered, all about me heel character. Also The Undertaker's parents weren't fictionalized versions of Mark Callaway's parents, so that was still completely in character, at the time anyway. If we're going to get that level of pedantic, Alexa Bliss' parents aren't Alexis Kaufman's parents, so who is to say they aren't fictionalized? Bryan has stated multiple times on and off screen that he doesn't want to be GM, didn't ask to be one, doesn't like being one, and is planning on wrestling again once his WWE contract is up, which would otherwise be frozen if he stayed off TV. You'd think if he really felt that way, then the WWE would pull a Lanny Poffo WCW situation to save him from himself.

The distraction wasn't intentional. Styles just wants to kill him so much that he got distracted when he saw Ellsworth. But, didn't he wait until AJ was about to already win before he came out? Kayfabe/Johnny Sorrow Logic: Came down ready to taunt right away and shout "I got your number, See You Next Tuesday!"

Also, where do you get Bryan's "I hate what I'm doing" comments as kayfabe breaking? The character is thrusted into a leadership role he was never suited for, and is struggling to ignore an itch to get back in the ring. Getting shat on by Corbin and Miz (especially) on a weekly basis clearly doesn't help, and I wouldn't be surprised if they went the Bret Hart vs Miz route where Bryan is in a low impact Non DQ match (massive run-ins and interference and doesn't take the SCF) with Miz as a blow off. I'm sure IRL Danielson probably came to grips with it before Character Bryan did, which is probably why Character Bryan is still around with the company.

The show is meant to exist in kayfabe. Hence what Bliss did was considered briefly breaking character from her self centered, all about me heel character. Also The Undertaker's parents weren't fictionalized versions of Mark Callaway's parents, so that was still completely in character, at the time anyway.

I know countdown shows are pretty much BS, but someone explain to me how fans tossing dozens of chairs on top of Public Enemy, Cactus and Terry Funk, as well as the Beulah-Kimona kiss ranked above Shane Douglass throwing down the NWA title and essentially creating ECW? I'll listen to a conversation that will put the lesbian kiss in a top 5 moments all-time, if you want to take it from a "see, we were progressive and trail blazing on social issues on our television" sort of standpoint (plus it was a storyline advancement), but the chairs moment seems more like a list filler moment (ahhh, we need something in slot 45 sort of thing), rather than THE OMG moment of ECW history!

True you were 7-8, but that is pretty random. I mean its not like being told other competitive sports aren't on the level (though to be fair, instances of such are due to gambling and racketeering interests as opposed to making events more dramatic and crowd pleasing).