Jimmy Redman

I actually have a lot of time for King on commentary. He was probably better as a heel, but at the same time, when he's actually on he's still better than anyone else currently in the picture. Like when he gets his 'serious world title match' face on and starts talking about how certain things affect you in the ring, or when he comes up with the perfect one-liner. I remember during the Cena/Rey TV match, halfway through King suddenly says "Guys, I don't think John Cena has thrown a single punch in this match." And he hadn't, and it was the perfect comment to highlight how unique such a super babyface match was, and Cena's attitude to it. Stuff like that I really like. He still has that instinctual wrestling mind and every now and then he busts it out.

Semi-confident on the 80s after doing a lot of watching: 1980 - Bob Backlund vs Ken Patera (Texas Death Match), WWF 19/5 1981 - Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen, NJPW 23/9 1982 - Stan Hansen vs Terry Funk, AJPW 11/10 1983 - Roddy Piper vs Greg Valentine (Dog Collar), Starrcade 1984 - Sgt Slaughter vs Iron Sheik (Boot Camp), WWF 16/6 1985 - Rock N Roll Express vs Koloff/Khruschev, WCW 9/7 1986 - Midnight Rockers vs Rose/Somers, AWA 30/8 1987 - Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon (Cage Match), WWC 1988 - Midnight Express vs Fantastics, Great American Bash 1989 - Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (2/3 Falls), Clash 2/4 Zero confidence on the 90s so I will leave those. The 21st Century will be dreadfully WWE-centric: 2000 - TLC I, Summerslam 2001 - Austin/Hunter vs Benoit/Jericho, Raw 24/5 2002 - Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Rey (2/3 Falls), Smackdown 7/11 2003 - Team Austin vs Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2004 - Trish Stratus vs Lita, Raw 6/12 2005 - Money in the Bank, WM21 2006 - Trish Stratus vs Mickie James, New Year's Revolution 2007 - John Cena vs Umaga (LMS), Royal Rumble 2008 - Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair, WM24 2009 - Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker, WM25 2010 - Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker, WM26 2011 - John Cena vs CM Punk, Money in the Bank 2012 - John Cena vs Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013 - John Cena vs CM Punk, Raw 25/2 (so far)

Bryan TV matches from 2012 I'd recommend: vs Big Show, Smackdown 6/1 vs Big Show, Smackdown 13/1 (No DQ) vs Mark Henry, Smackdown 20/1 (Lumberjack) vs Sheamus, Smackdown 4/5 (both the opening 3-minute teaser and the main event, the latter making my Top 10 for 2012) vs CM Punk, Raw 28/5 vs Rey vs Kane vs Alberto, Smackdown 27/7 vs Sheamus, Raw 30/7 (Street Fight) vs John Cena, Raw 6/8 vs Dolph Ziggler, Raw 22/10 vs Big Show, Smackdown 7/12 Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars, Main Event 19/12 (probably the pick of their tag run)

Yeah that is probably the best example. I seem to remember the Battle Royal Santino won to get into the Elimination Chamber last year being pretty good. Was that the one with I think Primo and Drew going to town?

Chairs matches are usually tough. I thought Sheamus/Show from December was good, and the Cena/Barrett one was good too in a stuntfest kind of way.

Tyson Kidd vs Yoshi Tatsu from NXT 2011 was a good pole match. Possibly the only one.

I dont think "he was set up to fail" is a case you can convincingly make for Sin Cara. He was brought in as Hunter's first big signing, they had a press conference and hype coming in, he got to bypass development which NOBODY gets to do, and was presented as a special attraction with his own big entrance, unique lighting, and showcase matches that were heavily hyped. His pushes were derailed by mainly his injuries/Wellness Violation, and if anything else also his reported attitude and unwillingness to learn English. None of these things really betray a lack of willingness on WWE's part. They tried. It just didnt work out.

Keep in mind that WWE now most often use video packages as a means to break up matches. Instead of a short undercard filler match they go 'video package - self-promotion ad - another video package - next match' instead. One of the reasons Rock/Cena felt so abrupt is because they went straight into it with no video introduction. I think the problem has already been hit on in this thread, in that WWE have killed everything below main event level and thus have no properly over acts on the undercard to serve the purpose of a short or lighthearted match. Not only that, but everyone is so samey that they dont have any changes of pace - they used to have the Hardcore belt, the cruiserweight belt, and a lot more difference between divisions and individual styles to make the matches distinct. Everyone midcard and below is a generic jobber, and everyone above that level is a main eventer, so on a card you have 4 nothing matches and 4 "main events", with nothing in between. And to be fair to modern WWE they usually do employ buffer matches between main events. WM29 is the exception rather than the rule. In fact in recent years WWE have taken the "break up matches" philosophy too far, and do things like putting an Elimination Chamber or a World Title match as an opener. If anything I would rather WWE try to get back to some semblance of card structure, with main events on last, instead of trying to break things up so much. You can have peaks and troughs while still building a card from start to finish. WWE cards nowadays just kind of jump around and have no flow at all. Mainly because, again, they go 'main event - nothing match - main event - nothing match - nothing match - main event'.

Cheating a bit, but he also had two really good matches with Christian. The first one was 28/7/09, I think the second one was in October or something. Also non-ECW, but the match where he won the belt off Dolph at TLC 2011 was really good too. There was that random Harry Smith match on Superstars too.

Yeah I think ECW Title matches on PPV and the two "original" One Night Stand shows should definitely count as WWECW canon.

I've been watching 2007 recently so here are my thoughts on some matches worth considering: ECW Originals vs New Breed (Extreme Rules), ECW 3rd April 2007 Possibly the most ECW match that WWECW ever had. This is Under Ten Minutes and an exercise in complete and utter chaos. All action, all spots, all throwing metal objects in people's faces. Balls to the wall. Lots of brutal headshots in this, the best ones being Monty giving Dreamer a Cena Spinny Side Slam and cracking his head on a chair, and Thorn going for the Tower of London and getting horrifically chaired in the face. Finish, like the rest of the match, just walks up and hits you upside the head. Total unadulterated fun from beginning to end, and like I said this felt more like an ECW match than possibly any other WWECW match in its history. John Cena vs Johnny Nitro, ECW 26/6/07 Cena in '07, thats all I'm saying. They had a couple of good TV matches in this period actually, this was their best and also a great example of the style (by "style" I meant champion vs midcarder TV match). Nitro just pummelling Cena with rights and Cena as Jerry Lawler ruled. CM Punk vs Mark Henry, ECW 6th Dec 2007 WOAH. So as it turns out, Punk and Henry have always had chemistry. This was like a proto-version of their 2012 match. Its all there - the trash talk, Henry's offense, Punk's selling, the comebacks, the cutoffs, the screwy finish. This one ended just when it was starting to peak, which was a shame, but man, as six minutes of TV, this rocked.

Not sure if it has aired/is online yet for the rest of the world, but everyone needs to not miss Regal vs Ohno from NXT this week.

That may be so, but I dont think you can deny that there was an emotional hook present for Benoit's championship quest in 2003-04. I experienced it myself and at the time I was a kid who knew nothing about his history or workrate or whatever. But his struggle to win the title after all those years certainly resonated with me, so in that sense I'm with Neil. He wasnt the most emotionally expressive in the ring, but I dont think he was a robot either.

Angle vs Benoit at the Rumble was structured terribly. Well perhaps terrible isnt the right word, but more like, there wasnt any structure at all. It was put together in a completely meaningless and uncompelling way, one of the most egregious examples I've seen of "we do some stuff for 15 minutes, then start kicking out of finishers".

Considering how seemingly hard a concept that is for anyone else in wrestling to grasp, I'm not so sure it can't be used as an argument for Heyman's genius. On Benoit and Angle and the highspotty style, I think the difference between them is that Benoit at least always brought a level of selling that Angle simply does not possess. Even if Benoit is throwing too many Germans or too many Crossfaces or whatever, he always grounded it with how incredibly good he was at selling, physically, and in the end he had a veneer of grit and toughness that Angle didnt have, even if they had similar pop up/finisher heavy routines if you break them down in that way. Benoit still made things look like a fight more than a dance routine.

vs Randy Orton, Backlash 2004

Hey, I'm Stacey, 22 years old, from Sydney, Australia. To add a layer of confusion I am actually a girl, even though I obviously have a male kayfabe name. I began watching WWE in very late 2003, my first memories are basically Steve Austin assembling his Survivor Series team, John Cena rapping at Vince in the ring, Kane giving Biker Taker his eulogy, that kind of thing. I found my way to the internet about 12 months later, and I've been a wrestling tragic ever since. I'm someone who watches WWE religiously and am a WWE fan, and predominantly a modern WWE fan at that. I think that kind of puts me at odds with a lot of hardcore fans, particularly a lot of people on here who have the childhood background and/or extensive viewing in other eras and styles that I simply do not. My good ol' days are 2004. Having said that, I dabble in loads of non-WWE stuff as well. Last year, for example, I went on what I liked to think of as a sort of severely condensed 80s Project where I binged on any and all pimped 80s matches I could find, basically everything that I missed out on not being 20 years older, and introduced myself to loads of cool stuff like PR, World of Sport, Demolition, and my new favourite wrestler Stan Hansen. My favourite wrestler is John Cena. I was a teenage girl in the 00s, what can I say. Other favourites are Trish Stratus, Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, Mark Henry. And now, increasingly, Stan Hansen. My two favourite matches are Cena vs Umaga LMS and Team Austin vs Team Bischoff at Survivor Series 2003. I've been reading this board for quite a long time because I really love the general way that wrestling is viewed, dissected and discussed on here, and I feel I have a similar outlook even though I come from a much more modern perspective.

Assuming you are baffled by praise of the match in general, rather than something specific, then I dont think it is ridiculous. I loved the match, and I know I'm in the minority, but I dont think it is a particularly absurd opinion or something that really speaks to an ignorance of the current product. Not that he doesnt seem ignorant of the product for many other reasons, but I dont think liking Rock/Cena has anything to do with that.

From Meltzer's coverage: I cant be the only one who thought that was a shot at Mark Henry, right?

The Before the Bells TNA do are generally always really good. Pretty much the best piece of TV that company ever produces. Whenever I catch one it always makes me excited to see the show. Then I watch the show and it is...TNA.

Mark Henry vs Chris Masters, Superstars 19/8/09 & 15/10/09 The match of all our dreams I am posting these mainly just for the fact that they exist. Masters is the heel so we get a lot of him trying to match Henry's power and failing miserably. For a reason I cannot possibly fathom, in the first match Masters gets to grab the ropes off the WSS and take a countout instead. The second match has a cool ass finish as Henry, who had his leg worked over, tried a normal WSS and failed to lift him, so instead caught him in a kind of flying WSS where he threw his legs in the air to take the weight off them. These werent much but I still cannot imagine how great a match with the roles reversed would have been. Its shame they just missed each other in 2011.

I thought the deal with Cena and Orton is that when Orton got his second strike, a story came out about Cena thinking he should have been fired the last time he was in trouble, in 2006 or 07, when he was a massive headache for everyone. But now he's changed into a family man and blah blah. I could be remembering that way wrong, but that is my recollection of that story.

Orton is on two strikes and now firmly in that upper-midcarder role. They arent going to put him on PPV with Rock, and there are better options for Rock to face anyway. I dont think anyone is really clamouring for that match.

From the Vault (showing an old match) has been a segment on the UK broadcast of SD for years. For some reason it made all other international versions this week as well. They must have had a giant chunk of time to fill.

Hard to choose between them, but I will go vs Cena, Extreme Rules 2012.