Jimmy Redman

The angle does help, but she definitely looks like she's lost weight. I suppose if she's at home with Tyson she'd have a lot more free time to devote to the gym. She looks gangsta. Here's another one for a better look: https://www.instagram.com/p/_R2Pd8S1FB/?taken-by=natbynature

Yeah, like in a perfect world I'd love to be able to exclude guys I have a lot of negative feelings towards, like Hunter, but honestly I haven't seen enough wrestling to say confidently that there's 100 guys I can rank above him. I can definitely talk about Hunter's positives and his great matches though, so it's not really a case of not belonging on my list. I just kind of wish he didn't belong on it.

A couple of reasons. I'm still a sucker for a Great Match and Hunter has had quite a few of them. He's not "on" as often as I'd like, but when he's on he's on. Also I haven't watched enough new wrestling (new to me, not recent) to have 100 guys that I've watched enough of and rate to honestly place above him. Same goes for other heavily flawed guys with lots of great matches that in a perfect world I'd be able to eliminate, Edge and Angle being the obvious ones.

I'm not sure I want to make that argument since I'm pretty sure Hunter will end up in my list, but nevertheless I think the basic argument for Trish over Hunter would be one of individual performance and how much each contributed to their best matches, and how much they contributed consistently over time. Hunter can be good, really good, but he can also be dogshit awful, and so many of his natural tendencies are a detriment to his matches. Whether it's ego or just terrible instincts, the things he feels compelled to do in a ring (outside of his most giving performances, which are anomalies) usually take away from his opponent and the match as a whole in service to his own agenda. Bloated attempts at "epics", transparent attempts to put over a babyface that only serve to make them look bad, and so on. Furthermore, when Hunter isn't being really good or really bad, he's just kind of...there. He's been in an awful lot of good and even great matches (as well as average matches) where he was basically The Other Guy and didn't really contribute anything to its greatness, at least compared to his opponent. He is very, very rarely in a great match where he's the driving force behind why it's great. Trish, on the other hand, was a driving force. As brain has been going into in-depth she made a career out of getting something worthwhile out of girls who were at best passable, and at worst utterly useless. And when she was matched up with actual good workers it resulted in good feuds and great matches, things that until recently were the benchmark for what WWE women are capable of, and I think it still holds true on a main roster level. She almost always elevated the quality of whatever she was involved in, and whether as a face or heel, her character work and work inside the ring was instrumental in achieving that quality. Trish was also never as shitty as Hunter is at his worst, infamous Jackie Gayda match and possibly her rookie period aside. Trish never dragged a match down with her asshole tendencies like Hunter has done many a time. On Great Match Theory she loses, but if you look at individual performances and who is actually performing consistently and contributing positively to great matches...there's the argument.

I have no hesitation in calling Trish's retirement match five stars, I couldn't care less how long it went. It was magical.

I think from their POV you're supposed to be okay with Charlotte and Ric cheating because it's Ric Flair and that's what he does. So Becky is a killjoy for not just going along with it. Also there's the JBL-led "you do what you have to to win" attitude, and sure he's a heel but they repeat it so often that it's almost a de facto truth and thus anyone who wants to win valiantly is a loser and goody two shoes. And one wonders why heels can't get heat anymore. They're using cheating as a babyface tactic more than a heel one right now.

Yeah, I too felt I was being incredibly nit-picky for even noticing it so I didn't say anything, but at TLC I kept thinking about just how badly Hunter was selling the chairshots. Usually on the rare occasion that he actually shows ass properly he bumps and sells really well (and makes you wonder why he can't do it more often...) but at TLC he was kind of bad, jumping up from all the chairshots and not really selling any kind of fear or anything. Maybe it's just semi-retirement rust.

I think if you do Cena vs Reigns you'll have a match filled with "Lets Go Cena / Cena Sucks" chants. Not saying that's a good or bad thing, but worth noting if it's supposed to be a vehicle for Reigns.

Her best match is a five star match for me. But hey, that's me.

Ashley was God awful. Her match with Mickie at the Rumble is...something. Candice improved a hell of a lot in 2007, but that's obviously after Trish would have had to face her.

From what I could tell he was booed at the beginning and for most of the match, but finally got over at the finish just before the interference, and then was over beating up on everyone.

That's the kind of shitty match layout that puts heat on the referee for being a fuckwit, instead of the heels.

Pro tip for Charlotte: don't slap your thigh if Paige is going to duck the kick. An air swing isn't supposed to make noise. When did they stop sending the heels to the back mid match? That ref saw Flair grabbing at Paige and visibly didn't give a shit. In 2003 Flair was probably ejected from 80% of Evolution's matches.

Divas Title match video preview: ALL WOMEN ARE BITCHES AMIRITE

They did, it was called Taboo Tuesday. And then Cyber Sunday.

Fellow Trish travellers, you and I brainfollower. I'm the one who nominated Trish in the first place and it was my bad that I never posted in this thread when I did. To be honest I figured I'd be out on a limb on my own with this one and was content with being her only vote, so I'm pleasantly surprised that this is a thing. Jingus and brain have articulated what Trish achieved and the degree of difficulty with which she achieved it, so I don't have much to add there. One thing I want to make a point about in regards to ring work is that her ring work is probably a lot more physical than you remember. I think there's this general consensus forming with the developments of recent years whereupon the NXT-led change has brought "real" wrestling to women's matches, and before that it was a black hole of hair pulling and botched ranas and no little actual wrestling. It's not an entirely accurate picture, ESPECIALLY when we're talking about Trish's career, which ended in 2006. I'm not sure when the "no more girls punching" edict came down, or when the general look of girls' matches turned more towards that catty, slapping, hair pulling type of stuff, but there was a point towards the end of the 00s when this did happen. This, however, is not really representative of the early 00s period when Trish worked. During this time there was punching, stomping, forearms, better rope running, less hair pulling and "girls only" moves, and a lot more traditional wrestling moves. Trish's moveset, and the movesets of her peers, included things like spinebusters, backbreakers, DDTs, suplexes. You can watch any of her major matches and see them throwing bombs at each other and punching each other in the face. Not to mention the weapons matches she was involved in. I say this all to make the point that when you think about Trish and then consider the current women's wrestling revival, remember that the current style isn't replacing the Divas matches of Trish's era. It's more that they're replacing the Divas matches of the post-Trish era. (Not that the Trish-present era was worthless or entirely devoid of wrestling either, but that's another soapbox for another day) Her top matches are generally exceedingly obvious, brain might have some thoughts to the contrary but I don't think she's not much of a hidden gem worker, even in comparison to other more recent women who have grown up in the Superstars/Main Event/NXT/C Show oversaturation era and get to have 8 minute matches every week on the down low. Trish is a big picture kind of girl. Her best stuff is her biggest stuff and easy to find: - The entire Lita rivalry, particularly the late 2004 feud culminating in their Raw main event on 12/6/04. I also really love Trish's retirement match vs Lita. - The entire Mickie James angle from Mickie's debut up until Trish's injury cutting it short. Everyone knows about the WM22 match, but there's also their first PPV match at NYR 2006, which to me is just as great and flies under the radar. They also had a couple of good matches on Raw that year. - I can't remember what the definitive Trish vs Victoria non-gimmick match is off-hand (I know I found it, I just can't find my notes), but there is of course their street fight from Raw. - There were a lot of good three-ways in that 2002-03 period (another example of having to rise above her station) like WMXIX, WM18, and I think Insurrexion 2003. - The Christy carryjob is a hell of a thing, as is the Melina match from Survivor Series 2005, which is amazing for what was Melina's second televised match.

I wouldn't sell the main event short. It's not the most interesting main we've ever had, but Joe has been on fire as a performer lately and looks set to deliver huge in his first main event. I've also enjoyed the super simple, oh so NXTish build, with Joe simply dominating Balor at every turn to create a big challenge for the champ. Joe has been choking Balor out every week to the point where if/when he puts the Clutch on during the match and Balor escapes, that is a big moment and they'll have earned it. But yeah, the go home was great and built to every Takeover match really well. One can't really say enough good things about NXT. It's really the only thing keeping me interested in wrestling.

I think the more pertinent point is that they don't do it while the McMahons themselves are on TV as top heels. JBL wasn't competing with Hunter and Steph.

I think again, look to the Summer of Punk to see how it COULD be used. Incorporate social media into it. Not just in the sense of "tweet in character" but have it be part of the angle. Punk took the belt home and then used Twitter to post pics of him hanging with it, pics of him going to ball games with it while Raw was on, he stormed Comic Con and it was all over Youtube, there was that footage of him at the indy show...all things that happened off TV, on social media to enhance the angle. If the angle described above happened, for example, have Roman tweet that he wants to meet the mystery person during the week in private, then that he couldn't find them, or they didn't show up (have him take a video of this meeting for "proof" but the guy doesn't show, only leaves another clue...), drop cryptic hints for hardcore fans to guess at, and then all is revealed next week on Raw. Not the best example, sure, but the possibilities are there. With an act like the Wyatt Family, there are really a myriad of things they could do off TV with them, shoot spooky skits in some swamps, show Bray holding cult meetings or brainwashing civilians, whatever the fuck. (God fucking damn it, now you've reminded me of the time I was fantasy booking the Summer of Punk angle. I know what I'll be wasting the rest of my day on.)

The last time I remember feeling like there was a genuine cliffhanger/must tune in next week! feel to Raw was during the Summer of Punk. I can't really remember specific details about the shows off hand now, and reading them back would probably not sound much different to the usual fare, but the vibe they struck with Punk at that time gave his stuff a 'must watch' feel. One week he drops the pipebomb, the next he goes face to face with Vince, then he walks out with the title, then Raw is in chaos without him, then he's crashing the Comic Con, then he comes back, next he and Cena face off, next he confronts Hunter...like I said the details escape me now but it felt like things were actually progressing week-to-week, and you HAD to tune in to see what was happening with him and the belt. It didn't last long because they burned through the angle so quickly and lost track, but for a month or so there it was riveting. They haven't captured that kind of vibe since. It's easy to blame the Authority angle but their reliance on it has really rendered storylines meaningless. The problem with the Authority is that they never go away. There's no reason to invest in stories involving them because we all know how they end: with the same status quo. They run through the exact same angles - babyface vs Authority, Authority clashing with its heel champion - over and over with various people and nothing ever happens as a result, and it's been years now. The few wins anyone has had against them - WM30, last year's SS - are quickly reversed and everything goes back to normal. So what's the point? It's one of the reasons why there's no incentive to tune in each week, because the chances of something significant happening are few.

I think the fact that rvd is as offended as he was by it demonstrates how offensive his comment was in the first place. And still he doesn't seem to get it.

It's not misogynistic to comment on a woman's looks. It IS kind of misogynistic to suggest that the reason, or a reason, that people like the match is because they want to bang one of the women involved. Especially since there are literally 7 pages of a thread you are currently posting in, in which numerous people outline what they liked about the match. Is IS kind of misogynistic that you feel the need to go on an irrelevant tangent about having sex with half of a women's softball team (but not the ones that are lesbians lololol!), but that's a whole other kettle of beans. It's misogynistic because if this was a match between two men that other people liked more than you, your first or best attempt to figure out why wouldn't be "is it because you all want to bang these dudes? Well not one guy, he looks like a homeless person, but I can see the appeal of the other guy with his boyish good looks and chiseled abs. That must be it."

Just wow.

I haven't been able to sign in on my phone for some reason so I've been keenly watching this poll from afar. I went for the girls without a second thought. I was going to try to articulate why, but having read over what I wrote about Brooklyn at the time (hopefully I still have a link in my signature) it says everything I would want to say on the subject. Transcendent wrestling. Reigns vs Brock I saw as an achievement more than an amazing MOTY-type match. I went into Mania without seeing much of the build, so I didn't really experience the Roman backlash, but I was aware of it and saw the apathy of the crowd going in. For them to go out there and get Reigns to the point where an audience that hostile were going nuts for him, purely through the work in the match...that is an extraordinary wrestling achievement, and all credit to them. I appreciate it more on that level than being in love with it as a match, if that makes sense. And I didn't like the finish at all. Before the bell rang I wouldn't have cared, but it was one of those times where the story they managed to tell in the match was so good that it ended up deserving a better finish. Not a clean one, but a better one. BUT this is all with the caveat that I haven't watched it since it happened and don't remember a lot of the details of the match.

Being there live it was so amazing to see a crowd that size completely turn around on the fighters in the space of one round. You could literally hear the moment that Holm became the babyface. An incredibly executed double turn.