C.S.

Bret Hart's thoughts: "I can say that, through my experience, that a vast majority, of course not all of them, but a vast majority of the white, Southern wrestlers tend to be a little bit racial all the time, and the N-word was frequently used by a lot of wrestlers in the dressing room when there was a black guy not around, kinda thing. And being a Canadian, I found that really difficult, I didn't see eye-to-eye with that kind of stuff and never felt like that, and I've never been in that kind of mindset, but for Hulk Hogan to make the comments that he made that is something if you had a camera like that in most of the dressing rooms with a lot of the Southern wrestlers from Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, even Texas, you get a lot of that kind of slant on things. And I'm kinda glad he got busted for that reason, that times have changed, and y'know, you have to answer for that stuff, and he's answering for it. He's probably glad that Roddy Piper passed away, because he took all the edge off all that." He was referring to Hogan, not Meltzer, but I think it's still relevant in light of the recent discussion. http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/9/3/9257411/bret-hart-hulk-hogan-return-wwe-n-word-used-locker-rooms

I was just posting what Meltzer said once upon a time. Personally, I think it's even more racist and fucked up, not less, if the n-word was in fact an official business term in wrestling. That blew my mind the first time I heard it. It's so shocking and appalling, and it shows how backward and stunted wrestling is compared to the rest of society.

Because it had long ceased being a "business" term by the time the incident with Mark Henry took place, which makes it "everyday conversation" by default. That's the difference. Still obviously racist either way, of course. It should have never been a term that was used in the first place, "official" or otherwise.

Never said otherwise, just explaining why Dave might have made that argument. I think what he's trying to say is that there's a difference between Michael Hayes/Bruce Prichard/etc. and a random wrestler who uses the term for black people because it's an official designation that comes from the office. Both are wrong, both are racist, but Hayes/Prichard/etc. might have actual racist views while the random wrestler is just parroting a term the way he would another term like jobber. Of course, it's still wrong and racist, but let's face it, wrestlers in general aren't always the most educated, enlightened bunch. See above. Of course it's racist.

Yeah, there is an obvious difference between Michael Hayes and Bruce Prichard casually using the n-word in everyday conversation and the same term being an official designation for black people in the wrestling business - similar to the way the term jobber might designate a person who loses the majority of his matches. It's still horrible and fucked up either way, but I can see why he'd argue that some people are racist and others aren't - as warped as that may sound. But yeah, Dave obviously needs to explain and clarify, and give more of a history of the term in wrestling, because it's obviously confusing and upsetting to a lot of his fans (and rightfully so).

I was looking for this in the Roku Channel Store last night but there was no sign of it. Any ideas?

Dave has talked about this before. He has said the n-word was the official term in the business for black wrestlers at one point. This lasted until the '90s, if I'm remembering correctly. (Someone can jump in with more exact timelines - I'm going off of memory here.) That's horrible, but it's not an example of Dave being racist. He's just reporting the situation, which is obviously fucked up.

Watched two things on the Network last night: Kevin Nash HOF special: This was actually really interesting. In addition to the behind-the-scenes footage of Nash during the HOF, they also had footage of Nash walking back to the locker room after winning the WWF Title in 1994. I had no idea they ever filmed stuff like that back then. Holy shit! It was surreal seeing Capt. Lou Albano and an underwear-clad King Kong Bundy congratulating him after the match. It's also surprising how seamlessly Hogan was edited out of all the nWo footage. The WWE List - Shocking Title Changes: Fluff, as expected, and not particularly good. But two things stood out to me: 1. Adam Rose is always a great "talking head" on these things, and 2. I'm surprised Chyna was mentioned so much, and in a positive light! I didn't realize until now that Jarrett originally "won" the Good Housekeeping match before it was restarted. What was the point of that if he was leaving the next day? Also, Hogan showed up a few times here. Guess you can't erase him from everything.

Sheamus: 50/50. He is beyond stale, even with a new look and heel turn, just because he's done everything already. A few years away in Japan, ROH, etc. would do him a world of good. Dolph Ziggler: If he's not still there, it's because he got tired of being held back (Christian) and chose to go elsewhere. Luke Harper: I don't see him still being in the WWE in five years, unless a miraculous singles push materializes out of nowhere. He had a cup of coffee with the IC Title, but it didn't last. The Miz: He'll be there as long as he wants to be. He is a fantastic ambassador for the WWE. Big E and Kofi Kingston: They're hot now, but five years from now? Big E is probably more likely than Kofi. Kevin Owens: He'll still be there. Rusev: Foreign heels have a short shelf life, but I think he'll be around. Damien Sandow: I originally said no, but now I'm saying maybe. He could have a JBL-like resurgence if someone makes it happen for him. Xavier Woods: 50/50. There's so much untapped potential there, personality and character-wise. Ryback: Probably, but yawn! Curtis Axel: I'd be shocked if he was still on the roster in five years. Jack Swagger: Ditto.

One of my all-time favorites, but I have no idea where I'd realistically rank him. Is the famous Alley Fight with Patterson on the Network? I'd love to start there. What was so bad about it? I don't remember his appearance being particularly offensive. But please refresh my memory. In my mind, Michael Hayes was a lot more obnoxious at times, Ric Flair was the drizzling shits (a bitter old drunk), and Mike Graham's "little brother tagging along" routine was kind of sad (but he was solid enough when he actually did speak).

My thoughts: - I'm sorry, but I skipped a bunch of matches. I just don't have the energy, stamina, or desire to sit through a four-hour show anymore. I didn't bother with Sheamus/Orton, the Tag Team Title Match (more in a second), the I-C Title Match, or Wyatts vs. Reigns/Ambrose. NEW DAY ROCKS so I listened to their opening in-ring, but Prime Time Players are better as heels, and I don't give two fucks about Los Matadores or the Lucha Dragons because they're meaningless. I like Miz (yeah, I do!) but don't care about either Ryback or Show at this point. I like Ambrose and Reigns, but Harper is a non-factor and Bray Wyatt is one of the most overrated guys ever. I fast-forwarded to the finish in case there was a stupid turn, and I'm glad there wasn't. - Rusev-Ziggler sucked and had a terrible finish. Lana looks so out of place with Ziggler - I can't stand it. Summer Rae as Lana 2.0 was a funny sight gag but not something I ever need to see again. - The Amell/Neville vs. Stardust/Wyatt match was fun for what it was. Amell was surprisingly athletic and looked really good, but he has the charisma of a potted plant. Still, it was cool - and I say that as someone who has never seen Arrow. - I was surprised to see Cena vs. Rollins go on so early. Fun match. I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I'm assuming a lot of people bitched about the Jon Stewart finish. Hey, I liked it - because at least it was a surprise (to me anyway). I'm not sure where they go from here with the irrelevant U.S. Title though. I really hope it just gets dropped, because having both I-C and U.S. never made any sense to me. - I watched the women just to see how their match would differ from last night's NXT match, and of course it was night and day. Still, with nine ladies in there, it went about as well as it possibly could have. Am I being too kind? - Am I the only one who was underwhelmed by Owens vs. Cesaro? I mean, it wasn't bad or anything - maybe I'm spoiled and/or expected too much? - but I thought it could've been better. Both guys were terrific, don't get me wrong, but the match was missing something for me. Also, Cesaro went to the well with that uppercut way too many damn times. He abused the move almost as much as Brock does with his "suplex city" bullshit. Not a good trend, guys, and not one I want to see encouraged. - Brock vs. Taker was better than I expected, but the finish REALLY sucked. I was expecting SOMEONE to be the bell-ringer (Kane? Sting? I don't know...ANYONE out of the ordinary), but it ended up being the usual "nobody" timekeeper. My post sounds very critical, but I don't think it was a bad show necessarily. It wasn't one of the top shows of the year or anything, but I had fun with it. One thing I'll say in defense of SummerSlam: The curmudgeons on this board bitching about Jon Stewart's hosting - particularly the opener with Mick Foley - really need to lighten the fuck up. He did a fantastic job! He was passionate and convincing. He can act! That puts him ahead of most of the horrible celebrity hosts that have been on Raw over the years. I can't state strongly enough just how good he was in the role. And no, I've never watched a day of The Daily Show, so there's no "fanboyism" behind my post. The last thing I saw Jon Stewart in, for better or worse, was Big Daddy with Adam Sandler.

My thoughts: - Liger/Breeze was a solid opener. Not a classic, but fun. The only thing I didn't like is they kept teasing a top rope spot for Liger but never actually delivered. The way the match was structured, I thought for sure Liger would win with a move off the top rope. - I am not a big fan of Blake and Murphy, but it is cool to see how much polished their act has become between their initial title win and now. Alexa Bliss really added the missing piece of the puzzle for them. With that said, I'm happy the Vaudevillans won. Cool gimmick and solid team. - I thought Joe vs. Corbin was surprisingly very good for what it was. It's probably Corbin's best match to date, and it's certainly the best Joe has looked in a while. - Apollo Crews surprised the hell out of me. Despite the internet hype (which means less than zero to me), I really was expecting a musclebound stiff like Lashley or Big Zeke. Instead, Crews was exciting, dynamic, high-flying, a great athlete. He won me over immediately. And he's only 20 years old (this show was his 20th birthday, actually), so it's scary how good he can become. Big kudos to Tye Dillinger too. I really like the new look and what little we got to see of the "Perfect 10" gimmick. I hope he goes places with it. - Sasha vs. Bayley was great, and the "curtain call" after the match was incredible. - I'm getting kind of sick of ladder matches, and I'm already sick of Balor's entrance, which made Owens' reaction to it priceless. I eventually got into the match itself, and it turned out to be a pretty good one. The bump near the end with Owens' head banging off the ladder looked NASTY. I'm surprised he got up so quickly from that, barely selling it, but I understand why because the show had aleady gone into overtime. - Anyone see this disgusting story? Wrestling fans are sewer-dwelling dung. http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/0823/599794/samoa-joe-sends-message-to-wwe-nxt-roster/ - I liked Owens vs. Balor, but the women should have main evented. The "curtain call" and "4 Horsewomen" stuff would've been the perfect way to end the show.

Serious question: Would anyone know it was a carry job if Bret Hart didn't egotistically broadcast that fact everywhere to toot his own horn? No, so I don't see why that knowledge should affect the perceived quality of the match.

He had zero personality in WCW and was never put in a position to matter. I know he was the TV Champion, but that title was useless by the time he held it - right before Booker and Benoit revived it again for five minutes.

Shawn has said that he knew he was playing the "old uncle who's no longer cool" in the later DX, so he was self-aware. Triple H, on the other hand, was still supposed to be "cool." That didn't work out nearly as well.

Clash of the Champions XVII (November 19, 1991) WCW Tag Team Title Match - The Enforcers (Arn Anderson and Larry Zbyszko) vs. Dustin Rhodes and a mystery partner. - Just an awesome, well-worked match. The Enforcers were a dominant team, and the mystery partner was a fantastic surprise at the time. Maple Leaf Gardens (October 21, 1984) Steel Cage Match - Andre the Giant vs. Kamala - A surprisingly good, athletic match. I was shocked.

Probably should've posted this here instead:

Anyone watch Table For 3 on the Network? Nothing groundbreaking, but definitely fun stuff. It's basically Piper, Mean Gene, and Mr. Wonderful telling stories and laughing for a half-hour. Orndorff's handlebar mustache is majestic. When he said at the end that they should do it again soon, that was kind of heartbreaking.

Or it could just be a "time heals all wounds" sort of thing, or him not wanting to burn his bridges unnecessarily. It's over and done with him, and he's moved on with his life and is doing what he wants to do now, career-wise. Also, the Perro Aguayo situation (which wasn't mentioned in the interview, I don't think, and understandably so) probably shook him up and made him take stock of what really matters in life. Really great read, BTW.

You're in the UK, right? So this might not apply to you. But for everyone else: NXT is also on Hulu Plus - yes, even the Specials (but 24 hours later, and with commercials).

Big fan. Wish it had gone on longer.

Let's try this... OH MY GOD...I LOVE YOU, JVK!!!

What they don't realize is that everyone is comparing Roman's push to Dean's. Roman is booked on every PPV. Dean isn't. Roman wins the majority of his PPV matches. Dean doesn't. I think this is likely it. I hope they still see him as the next top guy, because I think he is that guy. It's not like Rollins has done anything to make a case for himself. I disagree wholeheartedly. Rollins went from being a plucky, high-flying, nice guy babyface with crowd-pleasing moves to a smarmy, shit-eating, cowardly heel. That kind of versatility and range, I'd say, more than makes a case for him to be a top guy for years to come. There's a reason he was the first Shield member to win the big one. True, he's probably smarter politically than the others (and someone else even said that - I wish I could remember who and where), but that would mean nothing if he didn't make the most of the opportunity he was given - and he has! P.S. I really can't stand how this board handles quotes. If I'm trying to quote Zoo Enthusiast, is there any way that can be done without also quoting Loss, just because Zoo did that in his previous post? Maybe there's a setting one of the admins can check into? I really hope so! If it's an easy fix, I'd love to see it implemented! Thanks.

Credible was never a full-fledged Kliq member, but I assume that was part of the joke El-P was making. Speaking of the Kliq, did anyone watch their 20-minute reunion on the Network? I found it horrible and shut it off after a few minutes. It meandered aimlessly, the audio was atrocious, and the productions values were (purposely) bad. What a waste of fucking time. Maybe it get better, but I didn't stick around long enough to find out.

Barry Windham's Jumping DDT during his "Lone Wolf" period. Great move!