SomethingSavage

Whenever Aries first bolted from TNA, I made several posts about how I was hoping that we'd get an AJ Styles-style (eh?) renaissance from him. But if Aries isn't gonna go that path and rip through the super indies and New Japan, then sh'yeah. A program with Nak in NXT is a nice alternative.

It hasn't been explained thoroughly or clearly in the episodes I've seen yet, but I'm assuming he's still secretly serving as Pentagon Jr.'s master - while keeping his day job as a commentator at the temple. The key thing to keep in mind when watching the show is that the people inside the temple - the audience and the announcers themselves - aren't "aware" of the vignettes as they happen. There's no giant jumbo-tron or video screen. There are no "invisible" cameras, etc. It plays out like a television show. No eyes in the sky.

If the roles were reversed & Silkin only owed Ric Flair 41 thousand dollars, do ya really think the Nature Boy would go quietly and NOT let everyone know about it at every available opportunity? If anything, Cary's been professional enough by not mentioning it more often. No sympathy for Flair on this one.

Finally got around to listening, and this was fantastic. I'd never make time to seek out and read this material for myself, so it's awesome to just conveniently toss this on and let you guide us through everything. Highly informative stuff, man. And big thumbs up for some of the music selections. Very fitting & nicely done all around.

Agreed. That cage match was just a truckload of tremendously fun stuff. The kendo stick exchange was simply awesome - something you'd see right at home in an action movie fight scene. Johnny ducking and dodging all the shots was cool, and then the way Cage eventually caught him and one-upped him was slicker than owl shit. Mundo had already turned a corner for me when he initially went heel last season, but he's REALLY revved up to another level this year. Taya has added a lot to his act also. She already seems like a serious upgrade from anything Melina could have possibly offered - regardless of what a Mick Foley or a Bret Hart might tell ya. Not sure if you caught it, but the English commentary was as bizarre as ever there. Vamp talking about sharks and dropping the term, "camel toe" - while Matt Striker references Peter Parker and the Fantastic Four. That's essentially the announce team in a nutshell if I ever heard it. Oh. And I'll forever pop for the Steiner Screwdriver. Only always. So yeah. Enjoyed that bout immensely. Along with the Muertes matches I've seen this season, I'll definitely go back & check this one out again after I'm all caught up.

Really appreciate this coverage here, man. I look forward to the Super Juniors every year. I'm really slammed at the moment, so this will really help me to navigate and cherry pick whatever I want to see.

I've been stockpiling episodes of Season 2 since it started airing, and I'm just now getting around to watching some of it. I'm 8 episodes deep. So far, some of the matches have been very hit or miss with me. Both the Ladder Match and the Last Man Standing match were disappointing to me. In comparison to the Ladder Match and the Last Man Standing from Season 1, they both fell flat for me. Cuerno and Fenix just didn't gel as well as I'd liked. There were WAY too many "let me slap my leg and kick you" spots in their series together. Other than the finishes, I honestly can't recall a single spot from either gimmick match BESIDES all the leg-slapping kicks. Ugh. With that being said - Muertes has been an absolute beast thus far. The guy's been tremendous in everything they've done with him. The Triple Threat with Puma and Pentagon Jr. was a bomb-throwing blast. And the title change with Fenix was fucking phenomenal. I'm such a mark for the visuals of blood-soaked, tattered & torn masks in lucha. To say this was right up my alley would be an understatement. I haven't seen much in the way of spoilers, but I *did* notice all the gushing that the Aztec Warfare match got at the time it aired. Plus, plenty of people seem to love the Matanza push as it's happened. And I'm at episode 9 now, with Aztec Warfare coming up on tap. So I'm stoked and looking forward to the quality of the upcoming shows I've still got to blaze through.

Jericho's self-absorbed douchebag act is pretty fucking great. He's actively advertising and displaying himself as this pretentious, delusional, ultra-opinionated asshole. Jericho is basically Brian Griffin brought to life and transplanted into a pro wrestling environment. I'd lose my shit if he showed up a'la Del Rio or JBL - driving a Toyota Prius to ringside, then shuffling out in his fashionable scarf & jeggings combo. Martini in one hand. Briefcase in the other. There are far worse options out there. I could see Jericho holding the briefcase, stirring up animosity by way of teasing to cash it in at various shows. He could taunt babyface challengers & threaten to ruin their title shots via run-ins, etc. Of course they could accomplish something similar with a guy like Owens - who would be capable of talking a strong game with the added benefit of being at every show. So there's that. Isn't Jericho supposed to be wrapping up this run soon? Or has that changed now?

Even then - wasn't it always acknowledged that Dutch was in charge of the Knockouts around that time? I know I've heard Dutch himself talk about it in shoot interviews, and some of the ladies have also praised him for his ideas with the division as well.

Nah. No worries, man. You pretty much assumed right. I'm not shy about being outspoken or stating my opinions on things. I stated my appreciation for the sheer amount and quality of content that's been released here. There *is* a reason that this board and WC are pretty much the only ones I frequent anymore - with (admittedly) the occasional lurking over at DVDVR when I want to see some other opinions. But yeah. I'd basically echo your sentiments about the GWE project. To date, it's produced the most audio we've experienced here. Up until then, it was mostly Kris' deep diving into the territories, bios, etc. And I openly praised all that stuff in my previous post. And GWE month gets a pass, because it was such an expansive project. Plus it featured the added bonus of bringing a bunch of new, fresh voices to the scene. But going back to your point... The trend I mentioned was in reference to podcasts in general. I listen to a lot more than just pro wrestling audio... including comics, music, Lovecraftian literature, comedy, film and TV, etc... And it just takes a quick glimpse around to see a LOT of people shifting their efforts toward these exhaustive, at-length episodes all of a sudden. It's a growing trend, like I said. Someone else mentioned it here, but it's like they've abandoned all research and preparation in favor of releasing these inexplicably lengthy episodes that are camouflaged as these great, grandiose, wide open discussions - when they're actually (more or less) just aimless, nondescript conversations. And they go on for a really, really long time - as if that's reason to receive applause or a greater appreciation for some reason. A six-hour podcast isn't automatically an "epic." It isn't inherently any better (or any worse, to be fair) than a 90-minute podcast. But some people seem to confuse that concept. But, moving back to your response... Not sure what you meant about it being mentioned elsewhere in this thread, since this was the first and only time I've weighed in on the subject. So maybe you can ask whoever else brought it up before. But yeah. I wasn't pointing fingers to anyone in particular from here or PTBN. To be honest, the only time I can recall having ANY issue with this place - since joining up - was this past month when the GWE list was released and there was all that elitist bullshit about some of the ballots. But that's water under the bridge now. Ultimately though? It honestly feels a little silly to complain about some of these issues. When it's all said & done, I'm glad to have a stockpile of podcasts saved up for whenever I want to hear 'em. We're all adults here. We know what we want to hear. We can make our own decisions. We can recognize what material is time-sensitive (like the Reaction shows), what can wait (like a Between The Sheets circa 1984 or something), and so on. If any of us are really sweating this stuff and feeling legitimate anxiety over the peer pressure of NEEDING to listen to everything as it's uploaded, then yeah. That's another life problem altogether. I'm not sure if any of that answered your question(s), but feel free to DM me if there's anything else I can clear up.

I'm somewhere in between both sides of the argument. Some of the longer podcasts are fucking fantastic. And I wouldn't change a thing about a deep dive into old territories, biographical tributes, obscure events, or whatever else. Those projects warrant a lot of free-form, wide open discussion. Perhaps something could be done to break those up into smaller portions, but that's about it. With that being said, I think Kris has actually done a decent job of that recently - with both the SMW and the Continental series. But then, yeah. There does seem to be a growing trend. Feels like some of these podcasts are practically transforming into self-conscious epics... for no real rhyme or reason, other than to get a standing ovation of some sort for releasing another four or five hour podcast.

Well yeah. I mean, it's always fun to fantasy book guys into a new territory or promotion. The thing is - the problem you're going to run into with transplanting Elgin or Moose into the WWE is the exact same problem you're already witnessing with Big E, Rusev, and so on. It's a booking issue. It's a lack of commitment and conviction from the creative process on up. There's no lack of talent already there. The reason why it's easier for JR (and others) to book these fantasy experiments with guys from OUTSIDE the WWE is because they aren't being booked into the ground yet. So yeah. It's easier to imagine a guy like Elgin or Moose coming in and receiving the "monster" treatment. But the likelihood of that happening - and NOT being absolutely demolished by 50/50 booking and bullshit - is what makes all the difference in the end. It's not like they CAN'T do it. WWE is fully capable. They're a massive marketing machine. They've done more with much, much less in the past. If they'd be willing to move Samoa Joe up, bring Elgin in, or sign Moose to a deal - then yeah. They COULD book them straight into a Taker program ala the Great Khali. They could resurrect the Samoa Joe aura with a Mark Henry-like renaissance push. I'm FAR from being a big Elgin fan, but the guy's improved by leaps and bounds since the New Japan tour began. And I honestly think that further removing him from the bad habits of the indy Spectacular Super Fun Fantasy Dream Match formula would probably endear him to more people. But I'd be REALLY surprised to see him get anything substantial from a WWE or NXT deal, to be honest. Elgin is far more likely the next Rhyno than the next opponent for Lesnar. Moose is more likely to wind up being the next Titus O'Neil than the next Taker feud. But hey. Stranger things have happened, I guess.

There are times I honestly enjoy Orton. He actually seemed to be loosening up and having a blast with the babyface stuff by the end of his last run there. I wouldn't be lining up to see another Reigns rematch, by any means. But bouts with Rusev, Owens, etc. are okay. And, based on things like the Rollins series, I could see him matching up well with Styles. They still haven't tapped into a Brock match, if that was ever seriously on the table in the first place. And I actually think a high-profile garbage match with Ambrose could be entertaining - if they positioned it right and didn't place it on some card that featured a half dozen other gimmick matches to hinder it. I'm thinking something along the lines of Randy's SummerSlam match with Christian or any of his Last Man Standing stuff. He's far from terrible in those settings, and something like an I Quit match could really give Dean's character a spotlight and a critical boost at this point. So yeah. I see it. There are enough interesting things on the table for Orton's return. Whether or not they tackle any of that, well... we'll see.

Has it? He gets a huge reaction on every show, probably the biggest on the card. A mixed reaction, but a reaction nonetheless. All heat is good heat in the current climate. Noise shows people care one way or the other. Gone are the days when traditional heels and babyfaces will get the 'correct' reactions all the time. I've been to 3 house-shows headlined by Reigns since the backlash started, and he's gotten a huge reaction each time. Easily the loudest on the show, so I wouldn't say the push has been a massive failure. Last show I went to was a month ago, and there were plenty of Reigns shirt's on display in the crowd. As for when we got onboard with Reigns, I've liked the guy ever since he started to shine in the Shield. I think early in 2014, he was the obvious breakout star of the group - best look, most potential to improve as a wrestler, and a real charisma. I remember his promo after the 3rd Wyatts match where he asked the crowd "What's my name?" and he got a great reaction. He looked like a can't miss. Obviously, they managed to blow that due to clumsy booking, but by that time he was proving his working credentials by having the best match of the PPV three times in a row (vs Bryan, vs Brock and vs Big Show in early 2015) Was that the same promo on Main Event - wherein he cut Renee Young the bedroom eyes and flashed her a secksee grin - whilst the women in the crowd swooned and shrieked with glee? 'Cause THAT Roman Reigns looked like money. The dude lost a lot of that vibe, but he seemed on the cusp of being something "cool" there. I know Nash and Hall aren't exactly considered the most popular guys in the business, but those two guys have a pretty good clue about how to make money in wrestling. And their old adage of, "If the ladies wanna fuck you and the guys wanna be you, then you're money." was something that seemed to fit Roman to a T for awhile there. And it absolutely could again. I see elsewhere that some people are wondering aloud why a lot of people are turning around in their opinions on Reigns in the past month or so. And to that, I'd just say that - actually allowing the guy to behave naturally and act like a human being can work wonders. It's something that should trickle down the roster, because it'd be completely beneficial to everyone in my view. Bad booking would still be bad booking, for sure. But at least the performers would stand a chance of eliciting honest emotion and building some sense of attachment with their audience that way. And, once they've done that, then the piss poor booking doesn't seem quite so bad. At this stage - their biggest problem is that they're out there having these awesome, action-packed matches. But if the people have no investment or attachment to the characters, then the wins don't matter. The losses don't matter. The stakes don't matter. There's no sense of consequence. Not everyone is going to be the next Daniel Bryan, of course. But they should absolutely aim for the same sort of connection he had with the audience. Looking back at WM30, I mean yeah. The guy was incrrrrredibly over at that point. But the reason that show felt like SUCH a huge deal was because - for a fleeting moment in time - the fans CARED about an outcome. It wasn't a matter of them just hoping a guy might win. It was them being TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY, 100% all in on a guy. Their night would have been WRECKED and RUINED with a Daniel Bryan loss on that night. That's something you just don't see very much in modern wrestling anymore. But it's not like it's impossible to achieve that again. Again - not saying there's a handful of Daniel Bryans just waiting to be produced or manufactured. Not at all. But, at some point, they've got to remove the handcuffs and allow these guys the chance to at least get in the game.

You should watch some shoot clips of Al Snow on YouTube, if you haven't already. Completely changed my opinion of him. What a bitter, disgruntled, unhappy little man - and he throws around the "r" word like it's going out of style. Not a good look in today's climate. I won't disagree with the bitter and disgruntled stuff. Sounds like a fair assessment of Snow's attitude in A LOT of his shoot appearances. But the guy's actually got a fairly brilliant mind for the business. Even when his talking points NOW don't line up with his past performances, he's perfectly willing to admit that he didn't fully grasp or understand back then what he knows now. Plus, in retrospect, it's pretty easy to see why or how he got to be so bitter in the first place. At one point, the guy was the indie work-rate darling. Then, he went beyond that and became one of the most complete heels in the business - at least for a brief, fleeting point in time. He evolved beyond being just the work-rate guy and became a heat-seeking talker. And when he finally got his big break, it was as the Avatar ninja or whateverthefuck. Then it was a Rocker clone. It'd be fairly easy to understand if that shook his confidence. Either way, even with the Head gimmick, he never really regained the same stride afterwards.

Whenever Darren and Titus appeared on Jericho's podcast, he mentioned that he'd pitched that idea (with Backlund) before, and it was shot down. Pretty cool to see them running with it and giving it a shot now, I guess. I mean, at least it's something. After we got the whole "Demon" Kane deal last year, I've got to wonder how they handle the "Demon" element of Balor's character at the main roster level now. I mean, I could absolutely see them using the grandiose entrance for SummerSlam or Mania. But beyond that? I don't know. The split personality aspect seems a little silly. It worked alright for Corporate Kane - for comedy's sake - but I'm not sure I have faith in them putting a more serious, Muta-esque edge on it.

I'd probably be considered a bigger TNA fan than most around here, but I never could get into this era of the company. There's just a lot of garbage to get through. I remember a few things being decent, but I haven't gone back to watch any of it since probably '07 or '08. Do any of the Credible/Lynn matches hold up? I recall them having a series - and specifically a Chain Match at some point. The whole Raven "destiny" saga was neat overall, but it was actually executed better down the road when Vampiro, Shane Douglas, etc. eventually got involved. At least, that was my impression in the moment at that time. Again, I couldn't tell ya how well that stuff holds up. I may need to go back and read this thread from the start to give my memory a jolt, because there's zero chance of me watching it back for myself. Fairly big TNA fan at times - sure. But I prefer to cherry pick the matches and leave it at that. You, sir, are a brave soul. A regular scholar and a saint for your contributions here.

Kris' well-timed, "Well I don't give a fuck. THIS IS ME!" during the main event discussion cracked me up. Good stuff, guys. Your pre-show coverage actually made me want to go back and scope that out for myself as well.

Too elitist? Is that really a thing around here? Seriously. I didn't submit a ballot, but it wasn't because that was my intention all along. Perhaps I never made it a top priority by any means, but I figured I'd have time to do it. But life happens. Work, friends, and family take priority. In retrospect though, I'm glad I didn't submit a ballot - especially with some of the comments that have come out in reaction to some of the lists. Some people are celebrating the unique, varied selections. Others are harping on about what kind of "damage" was done to the final vote. It's the sort of melodramatic nonsense that sucks the fun out of such projects for some people. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone. I'm appreciative of the thoughtful discussion and exploration the GWE has brought over the course of the past year, for sure. But some people could stand to lighten up a bit. At some point, if you take these things seriously enough to belittle the OPINIONS of other people - diminishing why & how they enjoy their hobbies - then that kind of speaks more about you than it says about them, quite frankly.

Unless of course the contestants are biased toward their own answers. In that case, said answers to all questions may actually cause more harm than good. There's simply too much at stake. This game show should encompass the whole wide world of wrestling.

Yuck. This line of thinking seems entirely too closed-minded for me. I understand your stance on the subject. And that's fine. But it's kind of counterproductive to even TRY to apply those standards to this project in the first place. If you want everyone to agree on everything, appreciate each style equally, and all come together to the exact same conclusion - then what was ever the purpose, really? Why not just draft up a list yourself, post it, and say this is what the hive agrees to acknowledge as the best? I just don't get it. This was ALWAYS going to be an opinion-based deal. There's no way around it. People can pretend to have ZERO loyalties and no biases, but that's fantasy. The mind doesn't work that way. Sorry. Also, while I appreciate all the hours upon hours of podcasts surrounding the GWE - this post here specifically illustrates why I enjoyed Will's most recent podcasts so much more than the usual lists. That's not to say any of the others weren't good or anything, because some of them actually WERE a blast. But I appreciated how Will deliberately pointed out that he didn't want to promote the idea that this place carried some kind of "hive mind" or "group think" stigma. And I was absolutely on board to hear everything about the lists after that. I'd rather celebrate our difference of opinions than shame anyone who dares to think outside the box or not appreciate some style that "should" be appreciated. Ugh. Considering all these things - my list likely would have rubbed some people the wrong way, I guess. But hey. I didn't submit one. And I suppose some of that was because I *did* feel like some of my picks would have reached outside the usual suspects. So you're entirely welcome. I managed to keep my ballot from causing "more damage than good."

Wow. I'm surprised to see some of those things mentioned. I'll definitely have to hear the reasons for a few of 'em. But make no mistake - JBL's title reign was the bee's sleeves, and it should be highly regarded as such.

Was the AJ match substantially better than the Kalisto pre-show match? In any case, Alberto's return run has been a big disappointment so far. I just can't imagine THIS is what either side had in mind when they came to terms on an agreement. I mean, I guess Berto's fine with just making his dates and raking in the money for a few years. But surely they pitched SOMETHING to get him to sit down in the first place. It's not like the guy was struggling out there, doing his own thing. But what the hell do I know? It could have been all about them matching a certain number & nothing else.

Agreed 100%. But when Vince Russo says the same thing, and he has many times, he's derided mercilessly. Everything about his style is outdated and stuck in the '90s, but he's never been wrong about character building. Obviously, some of his characters left a lot to be desired ("Fat Chick Thriller/That '70s Guy," etc.) but at least he tried to give everyone - including the friggin' Jerry Flynns of the world - something to do. That's sorely missing today. When I remember and care more about Major Gunns than the majority of the characters in WWE today, you know something's wrong I'm not calling for Russo-themed crash TV or anything, but yeah. Some character development would be welcome at this stage. Imagine a Sami Zayn or a Cesaro interview that would help to flesh out their backgrounds and their motivations a bit. It doesn't take an abundance of creativity to sit down with the guy, shed some light on his history and his upbringing, and let the guy SPEAK to the people. I'm thinking something as simple as the sit-down interview they had with JR and Foley back in '97. That shit still WORKS. On the other hand, I understand that they probably value the system as it is now. In this case, everything & everyone is absolutely interchangeable. At the drop of a hat, they could replace almost anyone with something else. Neville goes down with an injury? Oh well. Slide Sami Zayn into that spot. Cesaro gets hurt again? Move Ryder on over for a month or two. Maybe, at their most desperate of times, they'll call up someone from NXT ahead of schedule. But the point is that they seem to be okay with things as they stand. So long as they've got a bunch of interchangeable parts on the shelf - ready to plug and go at any time - then all's fine and well. It's reached a point where nobody and nothing is extraordinarily over, but that doesn't seem to phase them. Because everyone is just mildly over enough to be acceptable and keep things moving along. It's like they'll gladly pass up the option to be extraordinary, if it just means they can remain perpetually ordinary. And that's truly the dirt worst strategy to employ. Because yeah. While it's the safest stance they could possibly take, it's also the laziest and the least inspired approach imaginable.

Cesaro, as a heel, was able to work good matches around the Miz - as a babyface. So yeah. I'm not too concerned about him getting something decent out of Miz with *this* dynamic now. As far as the show goes, it has felt easier to get through since Mania. Nothing has been outstanding, but it doesn't feel so bogged down by the Authority. That only goes so far, but it's a start. I'm not necessarily calling for more outlandish angles or anything just yet though. If they introduced one at some level of the card, then yeah. It could inject some energy into things. But, until they invest some effort and equity into building CHARACTERS that people care about, then it's not really going to make a dent. You can introduce all the angles, all the love triangles, all the betrayals, and all the backstage skits you want. But it's not going to mean a thing if the audience isn't engaged and invested in the CHARACTERS themselves. It's got to start with that element. They need to take some time and put some stock into their "superstars" as human beings - as people that embody specific traits and characteristics. That way, when one of them betrays their best friend or (GASP) refuses to buckle under the temptation of the almighty Authority, then it actually MEANS SOMETHING. It isn't just a pro wrestling trope. It doesn't feel like a copy & paste job of everything we've already seen from the Attitude Era. It stands a chance of resonating. But it has to begin at the most basic level. They have to construct some characters that are worth caring about. They need to make some babyfaces that are likable and attractive to their audience. They've got guys like Sami Zayn, Cesaro, and Styles practically gift-wrapped and ready to go. All they'd need to do is put some time and energy into educating the audience about them. The reason everything feels so stagnant and uninspired is because they'd just rather go the lazy route of booking endless rematches and letting these guys wrestle for 15 minutes every week. If they'd build these guys as CHARACTERS, then they wouldn't have to go out there and practically kill themselves every 7 days - in desperate hopes of maintaining their momentum and garnering SOME kind of reaction. I mean, don't get me wrong. The show isn't absolute trash. The action is almost always worthwhile. But the entire experience just feels so tired & uninspired. They're constantly running in place - never really going places with their storytelling or their development. It's just an endless cycle of rematches on top of rematches, OCCASIONALLY flavored with a newly signed talent or an unseen dream match here or there to keep things from plateauing altogether.