SomethingSavage

I'll go full heel for it. Within the context of the story, the guys involved, and the business we're dealing with? I find it HO-LARIOUS. I don't care. Bring the heat.

Yeah. Gabe's ECW sounded pretty good. It took place back in the day, but I could easily see those same programs playing out on NXT today. It just felt like custom-made angles and stuff for a smaller developmental type promotion - and he even did his best to play by "their rules" by including the likes of a Randy Orton, Ric Flair, etc. I definitely think he made the best out of that situation, and it would've been truckloads of fun to watch it all actually unfold in reality. His Guest Booker about WWE buying TNA (with Sully along for the ride) wasn't quite as good, but it had some neat moments - introducing Sting, as well as his thoughts on how to treat incoming talent per the usual invasion stuff. Nothing extraordinary of course, but I think both appearances side-by-side really show that Gabe was only temporarily burnt out towards the end of his ROH run. I firmly believe he could still contribute to a WWE or TNA television-based company and shouldn't wear the label of being strictly an "independent" booker. I really like Terry Taylor's Guest Booker appearance. There wasn't a whole lot to work with, but like you guys said - the most interesting portion was the discussion PRIOR to the actual booking experiment. His stories about HOW he learned WHAT he learned, and WHO he learned those things from? That's what I'd like more of in the future. Classic story about Dusty on the plane, too.

Willie Mack is a tremendous talent. Guy's been doing AMAZING, phenomenal stuff for someone with his sheer size & girth. Incredibly fun to just watch him go out there & bust out some offense. Really think a lot of fans will enjoy his work, both in NXT and (hopefully) eventually WWE's big stage. It's great that they've broadened their horizons with the body types and whatnot in recent years, to be brutally honest. Mack's not hindered one bit by his bodyfat, mind ya - but it's cool to see know that they're not necessarily turning down talent based on such shallow stuff. Mack's mic work might hurt him, but it all depends on how they present him and what kind of character they saddle him with in the big scheme of things. Because honestly, he's got this VERY distinct sound to his voice that could actually be played up as an asset. No. It's not articulate, and it's not typical. But it's different and could be something that "feels" uniquely owned by him. Of course, they may hear him speak & just not let him talk at all, haha. Can't wait to find out though. Been a big fan for awhile. And, for anyone that knows his story, it's a true hard luck "from the streets" type that could REALLY play well to a mainstream audience - if they decide to let him tell it at some point. Legitimately happy for the Mack.

Johnny Sorrow's absolutely right about Michael Cole shilling for the Adam Rose gimmick. It's terrible TV. Any time Cole jumps on a bandwagon and openly announces how "cool" it is, it instantly becomes uncool. Right then & there. And yet Cole doesn't realize the damage he does by desperately latching onto stuff like that. He just wants to seem in on it. Cole is the Michael Scott of WWE.

I don't know. I think it's still beneficial for them to at least run some video packages or vignettes to help intro these new characters. They're essentially unseen and should be treated as such. Even just a quick reel of footage would do the trick. For instance, if they brought in Bo and showed his brief history in NXT - with the crowd rejecting him as the vanilla babyface - and then his slight transformation? Done deal. Same thing with Emma and her increasing signs of awkwardness. Even if you're not going to take the TV time to retell her story, you could do it through short, spliced video packages with footage from NXT. Actually show the evolution of these characters. Allow fans of the main shows to SEE the progression for themselves. Educate them, and let them invest naturally. It'll garner a different reaction than just throwing these characters out there and expecting people to connect the dots as they go along. Big E is a guy that would've found immense benefit from that treatment back when he debuted. They brought him out cold as Dolph's manager, and sure. That was a decent spot at the time, considering Dolph's own placement on the roster back then. But it was NOTHING compared to the awesome path he was carving through NXT at the time as their unstoppable babyface. I understand why he couldn't exactly do the 5 count gimmick in WWE, since there's only so many guys you could feed him. Plus they were running Ryback with the undefeated streak at that exact same time. However, I see it differently. I think they ABSOLUTELY should have introduced Big E. the way he was on NXT. You don't deliberately diminish one monster to favor the other. You build up both simultaneously, and then you have 'em collide. Epic clash of the bulls, and fans likely would've eaten it up as your usual powerhouse kind of collision. But yeah. It's funny. For so many years, WWE wanted to pretend that outside promotions and territories didn't exist. And so guys would be brought in as clean slates. Now they suddenly expect everyone to be automatically up to speed & invested in EVERYTHING that comes out of NXT. But they're not necessarily.

Meh. I don't have high hopes or unrealistic expectations for it. It's only understandable that Hunter won't be able to comment TOO MUCH on the backstage happenings that are still unfolding today. If it comes down to it, I'd actually settle for hearing him talk up more on the developmental process, the system in place for developing each character, etc. It's something they've touched base on here & there, but an actual sit-down conversation could bring up some interesting discussion. Oh. And yeah. Of course it'd be cool if they actually hashed out a little bit of their history together. SummerSlam '99 would make for an interesting topic. We heard him at least address the elephant of WM14 with Shawn, so it's possible.

Real curious to see how much he works and just how much he'll actually shoot. I'm usually the optimist, but I'm purposely going into this one with lowered expectations. I'll be surprised if we get much more than what we got on his last documentary, aside from whatever specific questions Austin fires at him. Hopefully he throws out some good ones.

EXACTLY. I came here pretty much to state the same thing, but yeah. You're dead on. The characters are lacking any sense of clear motivation or drive. There's just not much purpose to an Adam Rose without a backstory. Yes. He likes to party. Okay? Shouldn't he be introduced as a wrestler first & foremost? I mean, bring the guy in as a British-born (or whatever they're going for with the Aldous Snow impersonation) wrestler. Have him chalk up a few wins, and then have him gloating about his lifestyle or whatever. THEN you start running with vignettes, interviews, etc. where he's climbing aboard his "Express." Have Renee Young grow curious, follow him inside, and THAT is the moment you bring us into his world, so to speak. From there, start bringing the riot to ringside. Something to that effect. Even if you choose to go the route of running vignettes to setup his debut, the character still lacks any connection. There's no depth. There's no motivation. The best promos of the past have a guy declaring his purpose. What's the purpose of Adam Rose? To party? So why isn't he a rockstar? Why even bother showing up to compete? Make him a COMPETITOR that wants to achieve success & superstardom. Have him outright & openly STATE that he wants fame and fortune. To do that? He has to WIN MATCHES. And there ya go. All that's needed. Something so simple, and yet they completely skip over the concept. You're right on this one also. They haven't set the stage for ANY of these acts, unfortunately. Rather than resetting the table for any of these characters, they rush right into what they were already doing on NXT. Well - not everyone that tunes into RAW follows NXT - and so there's a disconnect. There's a missing link in the chain, and they aren't even bothering to catch people up to speed. So the natural, organic reaction that Bo gets from Full Sail won't be what he gets on the road. Not at this rate. And it's not his fault. They never reset for him to get there. Same thing with Emma, who I really enjoyed the heck out of in NXT. The character just doesn't carry the same charm or appeal on the main shows. Again, it goes back to them leaping right from square one to the finish line. Fans missed out on everything that got us to the ultimate destination, and that's honestly sometimes the best part. There was no Emma coming out looking awkward and out of her skin BEFORE she started doing the dance movements, as a way to just be doing something. And so people don't get it. Can't blame 'em either.

Welcome aboard, man. Glad to see ya link the show over here. Already dropped ya my initial thoughts over on the P2B Bigelow boards, but yeah. Stoked for the second episode to be up soon. Not sure how many themes or ideas you've got on tap for future projects, but I'd love to hear you & a guest or two take a swing at the rumored Jerry Lawler run for Turner in WCW back in the day.

Wrestlers locked into deals and signed to contracts.

Konnan and Court Bauer are friends with a few guys there, and they've both mentioned on MLW radio at times that some in the company are working for 30 grand a year & less.

Got another random lucha related listener question for the panel: Favorite costume and/or mask in Mexico? Past and present. Figured it'd come up in the discussion, but maybe not if they're just selling us on best matches, feuds, and angles.

Yeah. I've been missing out, 'cause I didn't even realize you were back doing 'em again. Last one I recall hearing was the Hogan/Roadies deal. So I've got a bit of catching up to do. Hope there's plenty more to come down the pike, man.

Are we saying they have issues? Pah. Who cares? It's a prequel, and peeples love prequels. Just gotta say - this Awards Show theme had me cracking up, pretty much from jump street. Johnny's always gold. Guaranteed. But man oh man, I'd be lying if I said Parv ain't been bringing the funny like nobody's bidness since he returned. That loop of "welcome back" tracks to open the last MSG show was classic.

Yeah. Just last year I watched an episode of Nitro with a Benoit/Nancy promo that (I believe) was intended to come across like it was filmed at some seedy hotel spot or something, and they were trash-talking Sullivan and his link to Woman. Just uncomfortable, like you said. The feud itself is tremendous, but it's almost eerie to go back and watch the buildup that bridges the gaps between their matches.

Agreed. Tenfold. A thousand and one times over, man. Mygoddamngod. What we need to hear is more of Sorrow as Dusty pitching gimmicks, angles, and ideas to random wrestlers throughout history. And not just backstage. Not just in the locker room. But at the urinal. In fine dining establishments. Wherever. Whenever.

So stoked already. Can't wait. Gotta love Titans. It's just a crew of bros... amigos... bromigos, if yeww wheeeel... sitting around, shooting the shit, recapping some old 'rasslin from the past & having a damn good time doing it. Truckloads of laughs and funny moments to be had. Very much been digging it since day one. Keep 'em coming, fellas.

Christ. Not Van Dam. Anyone but Van Dam. Yes. Even Del Rio. Hell, especially Del Rio. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Robbie V for what he is, even at this stage - but what he is ISN'T a World Champ level guy. He's barely anyone I'd keep at the main event level for any real, substantial run. The guy just seriously needs an upgrade SOMEWHERE. Everything from his look and his ring attire to his actual in-ring mannerisms and arsenal could use freshening up. Hell, I'd settle for ONE of those things being changed up a bit. Sometimes, the smallest tweak could work wonders in helping to rejuvenate a guy in the eyes of the fans. RVD has essentially remained unchanged since '98. For WWE-only fans, they've been seeing this Van Dam since 2001. And it worked back then. Big time. But come on. Would it be the worst thing in the world to "retire" a few of your usual signature spots for awhile and maybe adopt a few new ones? A new taunt? A catchphrase? New ring gear? A haircut? Scruffy facial hair? ANYTHING. I'm begging ya. Give us something new from Van Dam. I'm not saying he needs to channel Jericho circa 2008. But would it really be the worst thing in the world if he got wise and altered a few things? I don't think so. Heck, it's the smarter workers that you see eventually "tone down" their style and adapt as they age. Look at Liger. Scope out Muta. Transformations of that sort are SMART, regardless of whether they come by choice or out of necessity. Van Dam could learn a thing or two, and hey. It's a bonus to his fans that it'd probably help keep him around longer. Right? But yeah. If they don't go with Brock, then I could see them sliding the belt onto Batista for awhile. It'd have to feel kind of like a consolation to him at this stage, but hey. It was in the works before, so this could be their way of keeping goodwill with Big Dave. I've seen Bray's name tossed around, but I don't know. I like the idea of the angle and the story that COULD fuel it, but man. I look at his stint, and this early on? Putting the belt on him could do his career more harm than good in the long haul. Maybe that's just my takeaway though. I look at the "monsters" they've given the top prize to so early on in this tenures - Taker, Kane, etc. - and it took them SO long to overcome that stigma and get back to that level on a regular basis. Although, I won't even lie. I'd be stoked to see the impending Bray/Daniel rematch. I mean, I hope it's still coming down the pike REGARDLESS of whether we see a Bray reign or not. Seems to be the smart, logical move to me. So yeah. I'm going with Big Dave or Brock here.

I was thinking the same thing regarding Lesnar, although there's a large contingent of people already bashing the idea. Not sure why that is, since keeping the champ off TV actually builds him up as a bigger deal. Sort of goes back to the special attraction theme that's been discussed with Brock before. That's the approach they've taken with his deal, and crowning him champ *sort of* elevates the importance and prestige of the title in a way. If it's a matter of having the belts be visible and SEEN on a regular basis, then simply have Heyman trot out there draped in gold on a weekly basis. Imagine the heat that'd generate - the sight of a portly Paul, boasting & bragging through his teeth, just beaming ear to ear about his CLIENT, BARRROCK... LEZZZZNARRR being at home, training to devour his next victim. And if this all comes to be around time for the Money In The Bank event, then that's even better in my eyes. Gives it a bit of a new spin. After all, how can this year's MITB contract winner hope to cash in if the champ's hardly ever around? Just adds a wrinkle to things that previous briefcase holders didn't have to address. Again, this is all just a matter of pitching an idea and running with it. It's not THE ideal situation, for sure. But it could be something interesting and unique. I'm not altogether convinced that they'd be bold or brave enough to risk having a champion that rarely appears again, but hey. They pulled it off recently (at least for a few months) with The Rock. So ya never know. They might just shoot for it.

Sounds good then. I'll start catching up when those remastered versions drop.

I really like a lot of his work with Foley during their initial stretch together. That whole series - from the Cage Match to the Cactus Jack MSG Street Fight and everything in between - really seemed to help elevate both guys, at least in perception and presentation. Feel free to pick 'em apart if you must, but at the end of the day? They're still a bunch of matches I can go back, watch them any time, and just generally enjoy the hell out of 'em I'm also in agreement about the matches with Jeff in '08. This was around the time that Hardy was REALLY breaking through as a major player for the company. It sucks that he eventually went the path he did in 2009, but the guy had superstar potential just dripping off him at this point. I liked that they kept the story simple here, too. It was very bare-bones, but the meat of it was grade A material. The only premise of the angle was that Hunter had the belt. Jeff wanted it. Boom. Off to the races. I remember a lot of people complaining at the time that Hunter retained the belt (in the Scramble, at No Mercy, then the swerve deal with Kozlov and Edge at Survivor Series, leaving Jeff out in the cold, etc.), but each was a chapter that ultimately played into the bigger saga. It was only fitting that Jeff's do or die, live in the moment, extreme high-risk style would see more risks than rewards. But when it finally DID reap him a reward, it was the big one at the final PPV of the year. Very big moment at the time, and all the groundwork was laid by several fantastic matches involving Aitch and Jeff along the way. No complaints from this guy on that end. I'm also a pretty big fan of the HIAC with Batista. There's bloodshed galore, which I dig. There's an intense pace to everything, even in the slower moments of the match. Nothing lags. Nothing drags. It's designed in a way that makes Batista look like a freaking beast of a superstar. He bleeds buckets, but he dishes out more punishment than he takes. Plus, there's something to be said for the cool Muta mist spot that Hunter gives when he's caught coming off the ropes with that brutal shot to the throat. Just an awesome visual right there. The problem I have with some of Hunter's other matches of this magnitude - or those that are meant to play at this level - is that they tend to drag. The action grows tiresome and monotonous, even if it does eventually reach a turnaround or pick up steam for the finish. I never get that impression with this Batista match. It's raw. It's violent. But it packs a mean bite in every tiny detail. And the finish FEELS like an authentic, genuine finale. There's no lack of satisfaction with it. There's no lingering sense of the issue NOT being over and done. We're left with a clear, decisive winner. It doesn't feel inconclusive or screwy, which can often be an issue in some of Hunter's other "climactic" bouts. At a time when fans are criticizing the lack of big blow-offs to blood feuds and whatnot, the HIAC with Batista is definitely one of those that can be looked back on and just enjoyed as an all-out war. It's just a truckload of fun, barbaric brutality.

'Preciate the heads up, Parv. I'll be sure and scope that episode out, pronto. A little ashamed to admit I haven't quite climbed aboard the "Big Boys" bandwagon just yet. Heard good things, and I've listened to a few of the specials - the AWA, the Year End Awards, etc. All good stuff. I just haven't committed to it yet, although I enjoy the hell out of your work with the Titans crew. Follow that faithfully. But yeah. I'll check it out when I get some more spare time, man. Thanks.

Nicely done, guys. Some real thought-provoking discussion there. Enjoyed the talk of Flair being more valuable by floating back & forth between face and heel to fit his opponents around this time. Ditto for the many twists & turns by Lex for the vast majority of his career. An abundance of great talking points here. The comparisons of Lex to both Sting and Warrior was interesting. And you're right. Say what you will about Lex, but I always walked away with the sense that he was working hard. Raw. Rough around the edges. But intense and focused on the task a lot of times, too. Neat to hear some of the alternative scenarios that are addressed - whether it be the idea of turning Muta or running full throttle with Luger instead of Sting. Good stuff. The concept of Flair's close calls & near falls holding more weight and meaning so much more than they would otherwise is something I hadn't necessarily put a lot of thought into beforehand. But, as Charles said, it's kind of a subconscious thing that's always there in the back of your mind when it's done right. Here's hoping this means we'll be hearing more from Charles on upcoming podcasts soon. Well done, fellas.

No problem, man. Love listening to these thus far. Oh. Almost forgot to mention Johnny's line about "classing up the joint." Legit had me cracking up. Already looking forward to that next episode then. Love me some lucha. Hope we get some talk on the greatness of El Dandy, Wagner Jr., and especially LA Park. Guy's still going strong and entertaining as hell. His brawling is sheer brutal entertaining. Just fun to watch. And his blood-loss is ALWAYS a stellar visual. The sight of LA Park bleeding buckets and having his tattered & torn mask just peel away like a weathered bandage? Yeah. I eat that stuff up. But enough rambling! If it's not too late to submit a Listener Question for the show, I'll fire one at ya guys: With the Sin Cara experiment practically abandoned at this stage... If you could nominate one current lucha worker to receive the Rey Mysterio Jr. "superstar" treatment with WWE, who would you select to undergo the treatment? What modern lucha performer do you place that kind of faith in to become the new stateside "face" and embodiment of lucha libre with the number one promotion?

Agreed on all points. Thoroughly enjoyable, well-written piece that goes a long way in not only capturing the feel and scope of the angle - but it adds neat insight and analysis to a few of the subtleties along the way. Your words really grasp onto the small grains of details that would otherwise just fall through the cracks for someone that came in cold & simply saw the footage on YouTube or something. So it certainly works best for me as a nice companion to footage of the actual angle. But yeah. Good stuff. Two big thumbs up, man. Looking forward to any future material we might get here as well.