Cap

I loved this in the moment so much. I am really looking forward to rewatching it. I was going to wait until it was all just available on the WWN network and subscribe, but I might after to buy the show outright. Not sure I can wait. I think it was a legit great match.

Hart/Austin is a genuine classic to me. I rewatched it before Mania this year and it is still probably my favorite WWE match ever (at least top 3). I actually think you don't need too much context for that match to really come off as elite. That also is a little less of an issue for me in the modern era where we get nice concise video packages that summarize the build. However, I forgot he gave the Bret/Owen cage match the full 5. I would say that is at least among the matches where there is the biggest divide between Dave's ratings and my own. Punk/Cena is an interesting one for me. It is an example of how there is more than one way to skin a cat. The ring work is just ok and I find Vince's part really eye rolly.... but it is really hard for me to detach everything that went into the match from the match itself. I don't have it as 5, but I have it as 4.75.

Eh fair... they would both be in the conversation. I mean, so would the NXT ladder match. I am sure there are plenty more too. It is all sort in this clump of matches that I think are good, but wouldn't consider throwing 5 at. Every time I see something that I would put in that group mentioned I think "that is probably it" until another one gets mentioned.

That would probably be my pick.

I still love Joe/Kobashi and every time I think I might be too high on it and watch it again I am pretty convinced its amazing all over again. Every god damned time he throws five at something I feel like some pocket of the internet gets riled up. His stars seem to be the only ones that matter beyond just quantifying one person's opinion (which is what stars are and should be). I get it. It is used as a standard on sites like cagematch. When people say a match "got 5 stars" they typically mean Dave doled em out. Otherwise they say "I gave...". It also gives all the people who hate star ratings a chance to let everyone know that they are "against it" and talk shit on the practice.

I am not remotely surprised that he gave the ladder match 5. I mean it wasn't close for me, but I did think it was pretty good for what it was. I am not into the MOTB matches and what not, but this - for the most part - felt like it was well put together and worked off everyone's strengths. It also really got Ricochet and Dream over even though they didn't win. I rated it pretty highly, but I also thought Almas/Black was better. Gargano/Ciampa was hands down the best match of the night and I was very much expecting Meltzer to give that the full 5. It doesn't QUITE get there for me, but I have no problem with anyone being all in on that match.

I finally finished rewatching mania and I just don't get the hate for this. Is it just because Brock won? Was it because the crowd hated it? Sure, they shifted gears a few times to try to do anything to get the crowd behind it, and that did suck the urgency out of a few moments. but I just don't see a disjointed mess that most people seem to see. I thought it was brutal, full of big moves and heat between the two. I thought Brock's move to hard way Roman gave the end some teeth (which it desperately needed after they went about destroying the F5). This crowd just wasn't going to like this match. They just weren't. I know they won the crowd over at 31, but that just wasn't going to be the case here. The crowd was chanting "same old shit" before the bell rang. They wanted to shit on this. Brock and Reigns could have gone out and had a 7 star classic and it wouldn't have mattered, so I just don't even are about the argument that this was ineffective (at least in that respect). In fact, if they wanted to set up a high stakes rematch that really frames Reigns as a massive underdog I think it was actually fairly effective. I for one actively enjoyed most of the match. I feel like if the crowd were into it and it ended the way it probably should have the whole ethos of this would be different. I also think with distance the discourse about this will probably change as they work to integrate it into the slightly longer arch they decided to go with. I just don't see the all time snoozer that some people do.

Just rewatched this. It was a fun little segment, but it was just that... a segment in match form. Taker really did look pretty bad. Everything looked very soft. I have no objection to the match as they did it, but it wasn't what I would consider a "a good match". Fortunately, there is more to wresting than good matches so thumbs up as a nifty little segment that let everyone see another grand Taker entrance.

I thought Evolve from Friday overdelivered in a big way. Sawa vs Jaka wont be everyone's cup of tea, but it was a brutal match. Supershow was also good and had one of my two contenders for live match of the weekend (that and Sabre vs Walter from Progress... I didn't go to NXT). I am really looking forward to watching both those shows back.

Almas might be he best wrestler in the world. Black is very very good too. This match had wonderful excitation and told a great story. It would be up there with my MOTY contenders if it wasn't quite so pacy. It just felt like some it needed some time to breath to create that drama that Almas and Gargano were able to create. Still a current top 10 match for me on the year just based on it being very tight and compelling from start to finish. ****1/2

I actually quite enjoyed it live. It didn't live up to WM31 really, but I find the notion that it was actively bad peculiar. I am withholding judgement until I watch it again, but I just wanted to say I hated that crowd so much for the entirety of this match.

I am high vote on this. Two dudes just casually going out and having a great match when everyone knew we were getting a run in finish. I thought they laid this out wonderfully. The counters and the reversals were really well timed. Everything had urgency and was laid in well. They did a lot with the time they had and really established Dragon as an immediate main event player if they want. ****1/4 Edit: Rethinking this it was a really great TV match and probably topped out at **** to me.

I had the same "problem" when I first started posting. I think people get used to looking for and responding to people they know. When I take breaks or get busy it seems to take a minute to get back into the flow. I always think it is one part not knowing what people have talked about already (or beaten to death) and one part just finding your place in the crowd. It is also just a massive board and hard to get through it all (for me at least). It isn't a waste at all. I have met some cool folks here and gotten into some nifty projects. Don't worry about responses, they will come. Just speak your mind about stuff.

Yeah, I am on board with this being a sure fire MOTY contender. I currently have it behind Almas/Gargano and right along side Thatcher/Walter. The drama of this was other worldly, especially at the end. I think the finish might be perfect wrestling. I loved Ciampa pulling the knee pad down and lining up for the kill shot. I will probably always regret not making it to Takeover while in town and if I was in the room this might be my run away #1 right now. I really wish I watched it first without the commentary beating me over the head with every symbolic gesture in the match, but that takes nothing away from the match really. I would say the only thing that keeps this from being 5 stars for me and jumping to the top is that parts of the match felt like it didn't have the teeth/violence that the build up and the context really demanded it to have. That is such a nit-picky (and completely personal) thing. It isn't even really a criticism of the match, more just me parsing out all the elite wrestling we have already seen this year from my own personal taste. Still, this was lights out wrestling. Gargano is the best babyface in the world. Wrestling is awesome. ****3/4

I love this Sami/KO promo. Nothing that special about it, just them being shitheads and riling folks up. Heel Sami is such a treat.

Got it.... I just have them flipped, though Styles is creeping up that level with the run he is on right now.

Curious, do you not feel that way about Danielson?

This week is going sooooooooooooooo ssssssllllllllllooooooooowwwwwwwwww! My biggest decision at the moment is ROH or NXT? We have tickets to ROH right now and would have to sell them (or bite the costs) and get tickets to NXT if we switched, but I do think NXT is the stronger card.... decisions decisions!

Man, I said this on Twitter, but I just can't relate to fans that aren't pumped for Reigns vs Brock. That match is going to be so much fun. On an absolutely stacked mania card I might be looking most forward to those two beating the ever loving hell out of one another. The Cena/Taker thing is baffling to me. I guess I can imagine a world where they do nothing until Mania itself and Cena just helps hype the crowd, but I would be very afraid that he would take away from what is happening in the ring. I am kind of guessing that they do him the front row (or somewhere prominent) during the pre show, show him buying beers for people around him... blah blah blah... then they do the Taker segment to close the preshow since the second hour will be on USA. Then Cena goes to the back so as to not detract from the show itself and they have their match. I have also seen it floated out that maybe they are going to do the set up this year and the match next, which wouldn't shock me that much now that I think about it. It would be a bit of a let down after all this build up and a huge risk given Taker's age, but it would be a WWE thing to do in a way. That said, my money is still on the match happening. It is really a strange build. Maybe when it is all said and done it will be worth the slow (and somewhat excruciatingly awkward) hype, but right now it sort of feels like they are spinning their tires instead of building anticipation, but that might just be me.

I liked this match a lot. My one issue was too much of an Okada match in the first half and that took away from what Sabre was trying to do later. Sabre is best when he puts money in the bank early on and come draw on that later to get the crowd to bite on submission teases. I didn't think he got quite enough of a chance to make those early deposits for me to feel like Okada was in real danger later. Even with that I thought this was really well done. Two of the absolute best out there having a great wrestle.

I enjoyed this a lot actually. Sure it was hammy and they really cheesed up the relationship between Matt and Omega, but I thought on the whole it was a lot of fun. Some of the action and the spots were really strong. It was very Young Buck-y in the chaotic way they moved through everything, but Omega and Ibushi take and deliver just about everything like it is death. Everything is paced out nicely (for the story) and while some of that I wish was more subtle, I more blamed the commentary for laying it on too thick. Ultimately, this isn't an elite level match to me because some of the over the top drama stuff doesn't connect with me like it does some, but I think what they did they did really well.

Just Speaking to live responses I experienced.... Mania 30 for Dragon was hands down the most electric thing I have experienced live. When he beat HHH and then when he finally won the belt that room just surged. Much smaller, but James Drake and Anthony Henry willing the evolve tag titles in Charlotte last summer was also absolutely bonkers. Everyone in that room was blown away and 1000% behind their local boys. That was a moment that seemed cool on paper but if I just watched it on TV I wouldn't have felt the way I do about it now. I got totally wrapped up in how face melting hot that crowd was by the end. Punk during the summer of punk (ROH version) was a really big deal and the crowd really connected to that story. Joe also had a massive connection to live ROH crowds (at least the ones I was a part of), especially after he was already established as ROH legend by his title run. Its a really small room and a very different vibe, but when Trevor Lee's music hits in the Mid Atlantic Sportatorium the entire ethos changes. There is a strong connection to and respect for Lee there. It isn't the white hotness we are generally talking about, but it seems noteworthy to me.

This notion that WWE booking (esp around this time of year) will need to make sense or be logical is fantastic in theory, but seems foreign to me based on experience. Like I said, I don't think it is going to happen. it just isn't going to blow my mind if they pull something somewhat off the wall here.

I actually wont be terribly surprised if Bryan is the one that turns and we get a little stable/alliance between him, KO, and Zayn. I get that it isn't where you would put smart money given how untouchable Bryan is on the whole, but I can see there being a pretty quick cooling period on him after the surge of excitement. I can at least see the wwe powers that be fearing that and wanting to get ahead of it. Plus, it would be a massive surprise (the kind that gets TWITTER going and would be a real WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT!). People may pout, but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. I actually think its only a matter of time before main event level Dragon goes heel because he has the range. I also won't be terribly surprised if KO and Zayn take the L and move to RAW or do something out of the box for a bit on their way back. Overall the setup for a Shane turn is CLEARLY there, which is why it will probably happen. It is also why I think alternatives aren't off the table. The setup is just a little too clear.

Misawa > Bret: I am relatively high on Bret Hart, especially for this board (I think). I have no problem with someone considering him the best wrestler of all time. He stood out as a singular talent during much of his time in the WWF. The devil was in the details with him. He mixed things up nicely, put his own twist on things. To me he blended the over the top style of WWE with his own brand of legitimacy and realness in a way that few of been able to come close to. His dance partners were sometimes great, but they were sometimes very much not. While Misawa worked with much better opponents, he also produced much higher quality matches. He was in many ways the glue that held one of the most lauded periods in wrestling together and it was mostly because he was able to tie massive swaths of time together with his selling, callbacks, and ring psychology. To me, Misawa's greatest strength was that he was crucial in helping those around him shine, particularly Kobashi. While the other pillars were obviously talented, I am not sure anyone feels as big without Misawa protecting his stoic champion persona and giving into his peers strategically. Misawa and Bret are both very technically good and that means something different to each man. It sort of comes down to output to me and sometimes that might not be "fair" but Misawa just found a way to produce more top end matches in my mind. Styles > HBK: To me, this is the easiest choice probably. A couple years ago I went back through a lot of HBK's top, most hyped matches and to be honest, I was surprised by how much I enjoyed them and enjoyed his work. I always remembered him as being somewhat over the top (which didn't bother me nearly as much on my most recent watch) and contrived (which still bothered me a good deal. HBK was indy before indy was cool when it comes to setting up contrived spots and it takes me out of the flow of matches. Of course we all accept that to a degree and our degrees are all different, but for some reason it has always bothered me with HBK. HBK can produce excellence (v Taker HIAC for example), but he can also produce a sort of overly theatrical self indulgent mess that I sort actively loath (v HHH HIAC for example). I have always been a little up and down on Styles, but more up than down. He really carved out a sort of unique style early in his career. You can tell that he didn't grow up a fan, but takes his craft seriously. He doesn't feel indebted much. His execution is good. He is tough (he can hit and get hit) and he is athletic in all the ways HBK is but without the extra stuff that bugs me. Sometimes his moves can get redundant and he can get in a funk. there are times in TNA and even ROH where it feels like going through the motions to get to spots (I almost always hate the Pele Kick). Even still, styles is better at pulling out the best in his opponents. He raises the level of match at his own expense sometimes, where HBK can bring a match down to elevate himself. Danielson > Benoit: I like Benoit's work. I always have. He brought an intensity and crispness that is hard to deny. Everything feels like a struggle. He adds urgency to a match even in the way he walks and moves. Urgency is probably the thing I look for most in my wrestling. Benoit was also really good at blending flying/high impact moves with grappling in a way that complimented both. He wasn't the first to do it and he wasn't the last, but he was really really good at it. He was also the picture of consistency, but so is Danielson. I would venture to say that Danielson is a touch more varied, but he is also a bit more creative and willing to step out on a limb and do something new. Some of that was a product of where they were and the constraints of context, but it makes that a bit of wash. Where Danielson excels is how he puts matches together and how good he is at the details. Danielson can play a crowd, build them into a frenzy. He can get a room full of people who adore him to boo him. is believable against anyone regardless of their size and he is more varied in the way he makes that happen to me. Benoit would intense his way into believability (and it worked), but Danielson thinks is way into it. I would take the Morishima feud as a really good example of that. Those matches were quite different and added layer on layer to the story. Benoit was certainly capable of that, but to me Danielson is probably the best at it. While Benoit was well rounded, consistent, and extremely talented in the ring, a lot of his work can bleed together for me. I think Danielson is better at adding texture to his feuds and his runs, giving him a more dynamic career in my mind. I would tend to agree that Eddie v Dragon is a better, tougher comparison, but I also tend to value peak a touch higher than most around here (again, I think). To me, no one could touch Eddie at his best. Comparing his peaks with Dragons peaks AND his consistency, would probably still come out ranking Dragon higher, but it would be closer for me.