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Great answer. Yeah he lost almost as much as he won during his run on top, and he absolutely lost more than won when facing the top guys. I think having so many losses against top guys didn't hurt him in that era though for a couple of reasons. Very few of Foley's losses were clean as there were very few clean finishes in Attitude Era main events. The title changed hands so frequently during those years that he was always in the mix or a month away from being back in the mix. And he's Mick Foley, all he needed was one good promo or good little back stage skit to get hot again after a loss. Ok I said "legit main event babyface" as much as I love Tommy Dreamer, I don't know if he qualifies. As for Austin and Bryan, to me its like the Gonzaga Bulldogs. They have spent the past several years as a top 5 team beating the shit out of every team they play. But come tournament time, every year they are still looked at as the underdogs regardless of their seed or record. People like winners. They like winners who win consistently. They like winners who weren't supposed to win. They especially like it when winners who aren't supposed to win, win consistently. I think that's the formula for building a rabid fan base in sports.

Yeah but from the time he was squashed to the rumble he had a 20 month winning streak. After the squash he turned babyface and paired with Kane and they had a year long reign as tag champs that ended in the following spring. Then he beat Cena at Summerslam. Then traded wins with Orton in the fall. Then he won his feud the Wyatt family in the winter. I truly think Daniel Bryan from May of 2012 until April of 2014 was the best booked babyface in WWE of the last 20 years, even if it may have been entirely on accident.

A question for this thread, has anybody ever gotten over as a legit main event babyface without a big winning streak? If somebody can come up with an example I would love to hear it.

Yeah. Back then when if first opened it was the MCI Center, then it was the Verizon Center now it's the Capitol One Arena. Same arena on 7th and F in DC just changed names 3 times in the past 22 years.

I guess I'll answer my own question... In cronological order.... Austin vs Rock at a house show at MCI Center a month after Wrestlemania 15 Tajiri vs Psicosis at The ECW Arena in August 2000 American Dragon vs Low Ki vs Christopher Daniels vs Scoot Andrews ECWA September 2001 American Dragon vs Low Ki with Ken Shamrock as ref ROH's second show Kurt Angle vs John Cena No Mercy 2003 Brian Danielson vs Nakajima ROH Glory by Honor VII

The stuff from Arena Lopez... especially the title match and 6 mans against Centalla Oriental, they are building to a mask match it looks like

The Thread Killer and Sweet Brown Koko's back and forth in the Jim Cornette thread got me thinking. What was the best match you ever saw live in person? We have a lot of people here who are in their 40s and 50s and who grew up in Tennessee and the Carolinas so I'm really looking forward to some of these answers.

I asked the questions might as well answer- Match of the Year- Walter vs Dragunov Strong Contenders- Ibushi vs Okada at the Dome Villano III Jr vs Aereo for the Masks Young Bucks vs Omega/Page Promotion of the Year- New Japan with AEW being the runner up. New Japan consistently gets on base. For me, AEW either hits it out of the park or strikes out swinging for the fences, they are the Bryce Harper of wrestling. Best Promo/angle- Everything building to Kingston vs Moxley. Best Weekly TV Show- NXT UK with Dynamite a close runner up. NXT UK was just more consistent in ring. Wrestler of the Year- Daniel Bryan- so fucking good, he continues to shine every week in the face of bad booking and bad promotion. Strong Contenders- Walter Villano III Jr - not a lot of his stuff made tape, but the little that did consisted of 4 1/2 star plus matches and rudo gaga that nearly caused a riot. Go Shiozaki- his title reign if full of little seen gems Kenny Omega- multiple 4 1/2 star matches and a great heel turn Show of the Year- Wrestle Kingdom Night 1, AEW Revolution a close second.

Winning streaks are an essential part of somebody getting over or somebody heating up. You can't promote somebody as a legit title contender when they are coming off a loss or string of losses. A wrestler needs to string the right set of wins together to get the fans to find him/her credible. Look at the last wrestler to get over in WWE- Daniel Bryan. He was already well liked, but he wasn't considered a legit title contender. Then he had a year long tag title reign with Kane where he showed he was more than a mechanic. Then in 2013 he won 82% of his matches (according to cagematch). Then he beat Cena at Summer Slam. Then in the fall he traded wins with Randy Orton and won his feud with The Wyatt Family. Then the next spring beat HHH, Orton and Batista in one night at Wrestlemania. He's been a made man ever since. You take somebody who's already liked/respected by the fans, put them on a winning streak for a year or two. Give them big wins against already established stars, and they become a star themselves. Its not rocket science. You see the same formula used in boxing and MMA.

Nobody's started a thread like this yet so I thought I'd give it a shot. What was the MOTY? What were Some MOTY contenders? What was the promotion of the year? What were the best promos, angles, and skits of the year? What was the best weekly TV Show? Who was the wrestler of the year? What was the show of the year?

What is New Japan's pay scale like? Wasn't the rumor that WWE just signed Matt Riddle to 400k a year plus 50k for each Saudi show worked? If that's the sort of money they are throwing at upper midcard guys with 3 years in the company, why would anybody go there when its such a fucking dumpster fire? If that's WWE's pay scale right now I would think AEW and New Japan would be able to come close to matching any WWE offer at least in terms of money per appearance without having to sign away likeness rights or merch rights....

Oh man so good. The best two back to back shows I've seen in a long time. Almost everything hit the mark. Every match was between decent and excellent. Everything was logical and realistic and sucked me in. Most everything was well booked, there's a few exceptions of guys who aren't in the right spot or don't have a gimmick/character that fits who they are (i.e. Evil, O-Khan, Master Wato, etc), but that's the exception to the rule rather the expectation like it is in most modern American wrestling. There was just so much good, hard hitting, realistic, logical action packed into 7 hours. I'm at a loss for words. Oh and Jay White is by far the best to have that top gaijin spot in NJPW since I started following puroresu 22 years ago. Bold statement, but I stand by it.

I think Fale has a much greater understanding of psychology and working as a big man than Lee does. Fale works like a big, strong, awkward oaf. All of his matches tell a simple logical story around him being the bigger, stronger, yet less athletic man in the ring. It might not always be the most action packed and entertaining wrestling but its aways logical and makes sense. He reminds me of Kevin Nash in that way. Lee's matches are the opposite. His matches are usually action packed and entertaining but there's no logic in them. At all. There's no story and on top of that he pinballs around like he's Jerry Lalwer wrestling Kamala when he's working guys half his size.

I hate the twitter. I hate this weird amoral culture that only exists on the internet.

I think Oka booked properly with a gimmick that highlights his bluechip shooter background and size properly and hides his flaws could be a big, big deal for them. Instead he has a gimmick that is corny as fuck and doesn't suit his talents what so ever. And on top of that his only singles matches match since coming back have been long matches against top guys, something he's obviously not ready for. Two years ago had somebody said "hey New Japan is going to take their top young lion, and send him away for excursion. They will change his name to Great O'Khan. They will give him a Mongolian/Killer Khan type gimmick where he's dressed like mid 90s WWF The Sultan. In his 16 month excursion he's only going to work 40 times so he never actually gets better. When he comes back from excursion he's going to be booked to go 15 minutes plus every match, including 20 minute singles matches against Okada and Tanahashi, which he will lose." Immediately you would think somebody was trying to end this guy's career before it started.

Okada Osprey was amazing. Main event was good. Undercard was perfectly fine. Was really impressed with ELP, the guy is freaky athletic. Ok, lets talk about Oka. He was so hyped when he was at the dojo, I was expecting the next Nakamura. Or at the very least the next Kaz Fujita or Nakanishi. Prototypical size with blue chip athletic background, you just expect more. He looked decent as a young lion. But this gimmick, there is such a disconnect between the gimmick and how he works. Oka has a funamental lack of understanding of psychology, I think he actually got worse on excursion. With this gimmick you expect a punch kick Killer Khan type of guy, not a guy that busts out slick elite level grappling and big suplexes. His gimmick should be more along the lines of Taz of Kaz Fujita, something that matches his athletic background and in ring work. And he shouldn't work any matches longer than 8 or 9 minutes. At this point all his matches should be some slick grappling, a couple big throws then a finish until he gets over and/or learns to work.

Here's my point, when accused of something heinous, a person can't get their reputation back on twitter. The only way to do that is with an acquittal or a victory in civil court. Without a trial there's no way to prove guilt or innocence or sort out the facts in public, its all just rumor and innuendo. Innocent until proven guilty is literally one of the cornerstones of American society. Yet people are treating every rumor from Speaking Out as cold hard fact. And please don't equate MeToo with Speaking Out. Actual people went on the record with authorities and filed actual charges in the Me Too movement, actual people went on the record and used their real name when leveling accusation. They weren't hiding behind a twitter handle. It encapsulates everything wrong with the internet. That's my biggest thing. Me Too was kicked off by a maid, an illegal immigrant no less, going to the NYPD and charging the head of the IMF with assault, while he was running for president of France. Speaking Out was kicked off with anonymous accusations against Jim Cornette and his wife about their swinger life style? Alright I'm off my soapboax, One more thing, while not necessarially a rapist, Scurll is definately a creep. And being released from ROH to land somewhere better, how is that punishment for hooking up with someone half his age? It isn't. You know what is punishment for that sort of behavior? Being charged with statutory rape and distribution to a minor. But he wasn't charged so until then it's all rumor and innuendo.

The whole Speaking Out Movement to me is nothing more than a lot of mud slinging and innuendo in a business that's widely accepted as sleazy and exploitive. If you get into the wrestling business you should know this a head of time. In Scurll's case while a 30 year old man drunkenly hooking up with a 17 year old is absolutely fucking disgusting, its not illegal in the UK somehow. The only person (that I'm aware of) that is seeing the inside of a court room is Joey Ryan and that's in civil court and he's also counter suing. There haven't been any actual criminal charges filed as a result of Speaking Out, its had no more impact at cleaning up things than the old sleaze thread on DVDR because little to no evidence was provided for any of the accusations. Anyways that's my soapbox.

Was Scurll actually convicted of, charged with, or sued in civil court for an actual crime or is this just another twitter rumor/accusation?

I will whole heartedly disagree. You could see Bryan make incremental improvements throughout his career. In 99 you can see the impact his first tour of Japan had. In 01, you can see the development of his in ring psychology and how his work became snugger, more realistic looking after spending 6 months in developmental with Regal. By this point he's a young prodigy but by far a finished product. From 02 to 04, his strikes and selling become even more realistic and his style borders quasi shoot style in terms of realism as he works a dozen tours of Inoki-ism era New Japan upstart ROH. He's now reached the level of like a Dean Malenko or Benoit. In 03 and 04, he tours Europe extensively and really learns to get heat and work as a heel. By 05 ish he starts to put it together and show personality in ring and has a great run as heel champ in ROH and PWG. From 07 to 10, he works NOAH and on top in ROH, working 30 minutes plus 150 nights a year, and gets really good at working epics. In 2010, he goes to WWE, and for the first time in his career works sub ten minute multicam tv matches and quickly becomes the best in the company at that. In 2012, he's paired with Kane and for the first time in his career is doing stupid oddball comedy sketches. He quickly becomes the best in the company at this while also cutting great promos and showing personality in and out of the ring. He's now the total package, he's Eddy not Benoit or Malenko at this point. He can do it all. In 2013, he's the top babyface in the company and proceeds to have the most successful, most memorable title chases of the last 20 years. In 2018 he returns after 3 years off and makes the wise move to turn heel (WWE can't book babyfaces to save their life). His heel title run had some of the best heel promos and some of the best in ring work of the last decade. Every year, every run, every new territory, he added something new, expanded his game, became a much more well rounded and versatile.

By far the most fascinating Dark Side of the Ring episode... "The man died doing what he loved, cocaine and hookers"

Merry Christmas Everybody! All I want for Christmas is for no eyebrows to be raised when I take off the first two days back at work from the holidays. The public school system should no better than to have the first day back from Christmas break be the same day Wrestle Kingdom.

lol I've heard interviews where Alphonso told a slightly different story. Basically in those interviews Alphonso said Lex had a big head on his way out because he was going to the Carolinas and had pissed people off. When they got in the ring Lex didn't listen to Brody and tried to call his spots. So Brody was like fuck it and stopped selling, going out of his way to make Lex look bad. Lex was too inexperienced to come up with something to do so he just panicked and climbed out the ring. Really I think the match broke down when Brody went for a piledriver and Luger didn't take it. From there Brody didn't sell anything at all and Luger just panicked and turned to Alphonso and with this look of like what do I do.

Did Luger starting out on top in Florida have more to do with his work in the ring or more to do with his look and the fact that he was a local football star that played at the U then played for the local USFL and NFL teams?

There is a big difference between shooting and not cooperating/ intentionally making your opponent look bad when they are on the way out. Brody didn't do anything to physically harm Luger and at no point did a legitimate fight break out. Brody just didn't cooperate and made Luger look like shit. I see them as two different things. Its like I've been in situations where a coworker needed my help to be successful, and I simply chose not to help because at some point they had rubbed people the wrong way. I see the Brody Luger situation as that. Luger was green and needed Brody to make him look good on his way out. Brody simply decided not to because Luger had rubbed people the wrong way. It's not a wrestling shoot, its common place office politics in a toxic work in environment.