Shrike02

A point of comparison just popped into my head. My point above was that Ted had a lot of tools but didn't really maximize his in-ring output given what he could do. (This could well be a contentious point and I'm open to arguments to the contrary.) How does he compare to Barry Windham, who arguably had even more tools than Dibiase but again didn't really have a long career of great output either? I note that Windham did pretty well in the 2016 polling at 25 and Dibiase ranked at 42. I'd predict both are likely to fall in the rankings in 2026.

1989 was a pretty great year of wrestling in multiple promotions in North America and Japan. (I'll defer to lucha fans to say if 1989 features a lot of great work in Mexico.)

Ted is a favourite of mine but in my view his inputs are very good but the output (very few top-end classic matches) just isn't there to rank high on my list. Will probably end up in the top 150 somewhere; I could see him sneaking in on the back half of my list somewhere. He was a very good young babyface, which flies under the radar (I particularly love his 1979 series in New York against Pat Patterson). I plan on revisiting what's come out of the Houston footage to see him there.

Gouldie also has one of the very best wrestling promos I've ever seen - like, it's on my personal Mount Rushmore of promos - which is the famous empty arena Stampede father-son promo. It compares quite well to Bruno's equally transcendent empty arena interview promo in the Larry Z feud.

I feel that Race should rank somewhere in the middle of my list and there are a couple of Houston matches that really show him in his prime which weren't readily available in 2016. The real classic is the match vs. Terry Funk from 1977 if I recall correctly. That's a legit NWA classic which some might view as a 5* match; if not it's really close to a masterpiece. There's also a great match vs. Andre.

I'm on board with the sentiments expressed by Matt D. I found his French Catch footage to be very impressive. I don't think I could put him in my top 100 based on French Catch but I'll watch his end of career heel work and try to connect the dots.

I too plan to go back to Starman, I did like it quite a bit and it deserves a re-read. I'm not sure where I would rank it. Back in the day I collected - and still have - a nearly complete run of all the DC Vertigo imprint titles for its first decade, along with 100 issues of Hellblazer that included all of Ennis' work obviously. It'll be interesting to see what I make of Starman now. I'm still in classic Marvel mode, so it'll be a while.

I know the WM X match is on Dailymotion. I'll try to dig up a link when I have time.

I would argue his WM X match against Owen is one of the best matches in company history, and on some days of the week I'd argue it's #1.

I have quietly watched a lot of French Catch since the footage has become available. Le Petit Prince is the highest-ranked junior on my list at present. For some, that will mean I undervalue Jushin Liger or Rey Mysterio Jr. (and perhaps other juniors) by way of comparison; they're also on my list. But Le Petit Prince is just really special.

I've watched a fair amount of Portland footage in the last while and Rose is tremendous. I need to rewatch his famous AWA feud with The Rockers. I can see him as a #1 contender and he's in my top 20 on my current list.

I think the main reason Destroyer might not show up in the top 25 of many people's lists is either 1) some of the voter pool decide for whatever reason not to watch enough of the available footage; or 2) some of the voters who do appreciate his career mark him down a bit for lack of footage compared to other top candidates. Personally I think it's undeniable that Destroyer has both the peak and the longevity to be a top candidate. It becomes a bit of an issue of extrapolation and how comfortable you are using some judgment in making a final call on how high you can rank him.

I've always been a big fan of Christian and certainly hope he'll make my list. Very consistent worker who mastered the fundamentals of match psychology and I've always liked how he consistently sold throughout a match. If he got his arm worked over, he didn't forget to keep selling that body part later on. I think the lack of any really top-end matches will hurt his ranking but again, he's got a very high floor and I don't think I've ever seen a bad performance from him. I will also say that the E&C tag team was consistently funny with their mic work; Christian was the glue that kept the matches somewhat coherent.

Great post. Mirrors my own views down to the "Benoit was once my favourite wrestler, then I stopped watching wrestling for a while" experience.

If you want to see a very fit 60-something watch his retirement match. The Destroyer is easily one of the best wrestlers I've ever seen - versatile, very clever on the mat, tremendously vocal wrestler, great as a heel, great as a face, does great comedy ... enough footage from Japan exists where I can comfortably rank him really really high. If more prime Destroyer footage shows up he could be top 10 on a GWE list. He'll always be really high on my personal favourites list. He's a very emotive worker. Superb technician. In baseball terms he's a five-tool player, although obviously he wasn't a flashy high flyer.

I've seen maybe one Yoshida match at random from YouTube surfing about four years ago and she was really great in it. Maybe she can be my gateway into joshi. I've watched less than six joshi matches total if we're not counting WWE women's matches involving Japanese workers. If some of these matches could be found in the GWE Links document that would be very helpful.

I did not expect my lifelong fandom of wrestling and JRRT to be juxtaposed on this forum with a metaphor of Matsumoto as an evil Tom Bombadil. Gold star awarded to Kadaveri, well done.

A list of top B's in WWF must include B. Brian Blair. More seriously, Bruno is right at the top of this category.

I concur; that Hawaii match is just stellar and Jumbo really holds up his end. Jumbo is my default #1 and I think he's tremendous from the start of his career. I can see how some people's tastes may have changed away from longer NWA-style matches but I have only minor quibbles with Jumbo's early 80s period. Even then he has lots of great matches sprinkled in there, too.

These are some pretty sweeping assertions. What is your evidence supporting these views?

Will easily make my list. Watched a match last year which was Baba vs. Gene Kiniski from the Olympia in LA in the 60s which was super fun. And like Elliott says, Baba has a tremendous variety of matches (output) where his input is cleverly maximized.

They likely rank top 50 or better because their inputs are so exceptional and they are so consistent with their output despite not being headline acts with too many main event 5* classics. At least they will on my list.

Ok then. I ... I should stop being so argumentative. But I don't see this line of reasoning as persuasive. I'll step back and compose an actual argument based on first principles down the road.

Randy Orton has the best finisher of all time? In what alternate universe?!

Let me ask another way. Are there any written criteria for this project? I think that would be a very good thing.