Shrike02

That was my immediate reaction when I first saw it. A second viewing has not discouraged this view. I think this just emphasizes the elite level Valentine was at during his peak.

Another 1983 Valentine vs. Piper match has surfaced in the past five years. I believe it was a house show match a couple months prior to the famous dog collar match. It's legitimately great.

I think Matt is spot on with his observations. I'm very sure several other workers from the French Catch footage treasure trove merit serious consideration, especially some where unfortunately we don't have a lot to judge from, but from what we have, they are transcendently great.

I'll vote for Bob!

Has to be some of the French Catch luminaries.

That's fair. I find it interesting because I'm coming from the perspective that Jumbo is #1 until I find compelling reasons to rank someone above him. I guess I have to do a deep dive on joshi if such claims are being made and I feel they should be taken seriously or otherwise what is the point of this project for me. We're supposed to watch new stuff and this gives me a good reason to do so.

I would never pretend to have much knowledge of joshi but this dismissive take on Jumbo is pretty absurd in my view. I'd say Jumbo was great from when he started all the way to 1992. Not many wrestlers have a comparable career with both peak and longevity.

I'm with you all the way until this last sentence. It's out on an island and disconnected to the paragraph above it. (And yes, whilst I would presumably have Jumbo at 1 and Funk in my top 5, that's beside the point I am trying to make.)

Jumbo is my default #1. I can't see him dropping outside my top five between now and 2026.

I hope this is a fun thread. At the risk of being pedantic, I hope you'll see if you can edit the thread title to spell prologue correctly and fix the typo.

I plan to vote this time around and could well imagine a scenario where I am the high vote for The Destroyer and some of the French Catch finds. But yes, it depends.

I should add a postscript to my earlier remarks about Captain Marvel, it does pick up significantly once Jim Starlin takes over. His writing can be an acquired taste for some but it is hard to overstate just how much his art stands out for the period. It's pretty outstanding with rich colours and much better detail than what went before it on this title.

I read very little current stuff - I'm currently diving into more Defenders, and Thor & Avengers from the beginning but I can say what I've read from the last couple years in the mutant titles aka House of X has been really good. Very coherent across the various titles.

Yes, but they are still quite poor. Digital sales (it's only because of the pandemic that I count myself a digital subscriber because I much prefer holding a physical book) and movie deals really are keeping Marvel and DC afloat.

I have a decent collection which has been properly stored so it's in good shape but can't really imagine taking the trouble to inventory and try to sell anything. Highlights of what I have are a very long run of Amazing Spider-Man (180 or so past 400) and the complete run of Sandman (which has lots of sentimental value not much secondary value since it was reprinted a lot), Hellblazer, Excalibur etc.

I can report that the original Captain Marvel run (1968) is not really worth anyone's time, unless you want to see the earliest incarnation of Carol Danvers.

I plan to participate and I have to disagree in the sense that the PWO forums offer a good clean way to organize and archive participation. Using Discord, Zoom and so forth is all well and good but any useful and stimulating discussion should ultimately be codified/transcribed here for future use. Putting out podcasts on the PWO feed well before the voting period is obviously another avenue.

Speaking of George Perez I have to speak up for his Wonder Woman run. I'm much more of a Marvel guy but that series holds up well, although he eventually runs out of steam as he was both writing and illustrating the title most of the time.

Has to be Jumbo. His 70s stuff is tremendous. Akiyama stands out too, as does Dynamite Kid.

This is an interesting observation given that, for example, Bruno Sammartino didn't crack the top 100 in 2016 despite being a huge star with tons of matches that feature big, very hot crowds. I suppose by this line of reasoning, many voters felt he didn't make the most of those opportunities. Personally, I'm much more inclined to rate Bruno highly because he was extremely charismatic, had a special connection to the crowd, and yes delivered some all-time great promos in the epic feud with Larry. The fact that Bruno didn't do a lot of fancy moves really doesn't matter to me. Anyhow, I hope to participate in 2026 and it's definitely a good idea to try to establish consensus on what the criteria should be for this project a long ways out.

Silver Agent special is a real gem. I don't tear up easily reading comics but that story got me sniffling too.

I can't provide a specific reference point but Jericho has mentioned lots of times how growing up in Winnipeg he went to AWA shows. Stands to reason Bockwinkel was an influence for him.

That's fair I don't think there's much disagreement here to be honest. I will say some of the best promo work will establish a character or gimmick very well and then will carry over in the ring in both obvious and not-so-obvious ways. If it's a great heel promo it can just accentuate or stoke the viewing audience's desire to see the heel get his comeuppance. For example, anyone with half a brain should realize Mr. Perfect is not throwing a football to himself; he's a fraud. So unless you're just a lifelong heel fan you should just want even more to see Hennig lose to the babyface and drop the IC title.

Promos and character work on the apron during matches - or jawing to the crowd during an entrance before matches - are part and parcel of judging wrestlers. This isn't a match ranking project. So I take a contrary view to Elliott's position. Certain guys climb my personal rankings because of this. It's like the cherry on top of a sundae. Two guys that come to mind in particular for this are Roddy Piper and Ken Patera; they get bonus points for how entertaining they are. It's a value-added product. Likewise, the tremendous entertainment value of Million Dollar Man or Mr. Perfect promo segments are too good to ignore.

Short answer is yes. In particular there's the discovery of a lot of great French Catch footage which has been a revelation of a lot of great stuff and great workers who were formerly quite unknown or impossible to evaluate because of a lack of footage. And there certainly has been new stuff showing up here and there from other places and times. I particularly enjoyed a Piper-Valentine house show brawl that precedes their famous Starrcade '83 match.