Shrike02

Great post. Mirrors my own views down to the "Benoit was once my favourite wrestler, then I stopped watching wrestling for a while" experience.

If you want to see a very fit 60-something watch his retirement match. The Destroyer is easily one of the best wrestlers I've ever seen - versatile, very clever on the mat, tremendously vocal wrestler, great as a heel, great as a face, does great comedy ... enough footage from Japan exists where I can comfortably rank him really really high. If more prime Destroyer footage shows up he could be top 10 on a GWE list. He'll always be really high on my personal favourites list. He's a very emotive worker. Superb technician. In baseball terms he's a five-tool player, although obviously he wasn't a flashy high flyer.

I've seen maybe one Yoshida match at random from YouTube surfing about four years ago and she was really great in it. Maybe she can be my gateway into joshi. I've watched less than six joshi matches total if we're not counting WWE women's matches involving Japanese workers. If some of these matches could be found in the GWE Links document that would be very helpful.

I did not expect my lifelong fandom of wrestling and JRRT to be juxtaposed on this forum with a metaphor of Matsumoto as an evil Tom Bombadil. Gold star awarded to Kadaveri, well done.

A list of top B's in WWF must include B. Brian Blair. More seriously, Bruno is right at the top of this category.

I concur; that Hawaii match is just stellar and Jumbo really holds up his end. Jumbo is my default #1 and I think he's tremendous from the start of his career. I can see how some people's tastes may have changed away from longer NWA-style matches but I have only minor quibbles with Jumbo's early 80s period. Even then he has lots of great matches sprinkled in there, too.

These are some pretty sweeping assertions. What is your evidence supporting these views?

Will easily make my list. Watched a match last year which was Baba vs. Gene Kiniski from the Olympia in LA in the 60s which was super fun. And like Elliott says, Baba has a tremendous variety of matches (output) where his input is cleverly maximized.

They likely rank top 50 or better because their inputs are so exceptional and they are so consistent with their output despite not being headline acts with too many main event 5* classics. At least they will on my list.

Ok then. I ... I should stop being so argumentative. But I don't see this line of reasoning as persuasive. I'll step back and compose an actual argument based on first principles down the road.

Randy Orton has the best finisher of all time? In what alternate universe?!

Let me ask another way. Are there any written criteria for this project? I think that would be a very good thing.

Why is this baffling. I'm asking the question because I find the logical underpinnings about criteria for this project a bit murky with regards to this underlying issue. I thought the stated goals of this project was to present individual rankings of the best 100 wrestlers we've seen as wrestling fans - let's leave aside any other potential controversies for now. I haven't listened to the whole launch podcast yet but I would just like to have clarity on what the criteria are. Is there a character clause, or not?

Another consideration. Let's say you want to examine well-known workers from long ago such as Lou Thesz or Jim Londos or whomever. By 2021 standards they (very) probably hold views you'd find objectionable today. Where does one draw the line?

One can only hope differing views on Bruno are informed by actually watching the footage with an open mind. I don't have much optimism that Bruno will do well in the 2026 voting but lazy dismissive takes are worthless without citing evidence for one's position.

It's always nice to see someone have an open mind and a willingness to explore footage. I hope you enjoy what you find. I'd also suggest this compilation of the Bruno vs. Larry feud in podcast commentary form:

I live in hope. Can't wait to see it, if indeed it shows back up.

I've watched as much of Bruno as I could since 2016 - I didn't vote in that project as I didn't feel able to submit a proper list - and he'll easily make my list for 2026. The emotional connection he has with the crowd is really, really special. I grew up watching WWF (and Stampede) from 1985 onwards and like any kid I liked Hogan, Savage, Santana and Bret and Owen Hart, and so on ... but nowadays I have to say I'm way more invested watching Bruno than just about anyone. I find it impossible to ignore how captivating Bruno is in the ring - and in his best feuds doing promos and mic work in the ring with Larry Z and Piper and Savage - where he works very simple brawls but they hook me in nearly every time.

My observation would be that Bruno accomplishes a whole lot with a simple, rugged style. Less is more. And he had a special charisma with an all-time great feud with Larry Z which featured amazing, amazing promos as an integral part of that feud. And his matches have tremendous crowd atmosphere and heat. Bruno will easily make my top 100 list.

For a project like this judging wrestlers ... yes, I'm with Phil. There are always exceptions, but try to be consistent. Growing up my favourite workers were Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, etc. I can for obvious reasons significantly lower my ranking of the latter - maybe he'll fall off my top 100 - but if I'm being consistent should I also lower my ranking of Hart because I read his biography and discovered he was a serial adulterer? Where does one draw the line?

That's a very likely hypothesis. Busiek's Astro City is creator-owned.

To varying degrees I feel the exact same way with Nick Bockwinkel and Pat Patterson. I want to put them both in my top 20 but the footage doesn't really justify it on what's out there, but it's not hard to extrapolate how great they really were.

They're all out of print? That surprises me. I filled in the gaps in my collection these past few years and bought the new releases at my local comic shop or at Chapters. If the more recent ones are out of stock with online retailers that sucks.

Speaking as a huge fan of Astro City I must recommend buying the trades. They are worth every penny.

In 2021 I have Martel at 11 on my current iteration of my top 100 list. I can't see him dropping out of the top 20 in five years. If anyone is aware of any notable Martel footage has come along in the past five years, please include it in the Links folder.