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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 8 Fit Finlay vs. Sandy Scott (4/28/87) This was the Princess Paula Show -- the latest in a long line of Finlay squashes despite it being a catchweight contest and Finlay being the lighter man. It was an extremely polished version of the Princess Paula Show, though, which at least made it entertaining. If kayfabe counted for anything then Finlay would be the 1987 European Wrestler of the Year, but matches count more in my world. Doc Dean vs. Aztec Warrior (Newcastle Emlyn, taped 2/5/92) Aztec Warrior was some kind of Kendo Nagasaki rip-off. I can't be bothered figuring out who he was. This was rank pro-wrestling. Maybe this type of heel vs. face dribble is some people's idea of pro-wrestling personified, but it's cartoon wrestling in my books. Otto Wanz vs. Drew McDonald (Denbigh, taped 1988) This was amusing because Wanz defended the CWA World Heavyweight Championship in some God forsaken Welsh town, but it didn't really provide much insight into McDonald, and my biggest takeaway regarding Wanz was that he looked like a beached whale every time he was back to canvas. Won't make you forget those Vader matches in a hurry. Rocky Moran vs. Fuji Yamada (Denbigh, taped 1987) Finally, a Liger match worth a damn. A little on the short side, but Moran did a superb job bumping for Liger and eating all of his shit. The Mighty Chang came to ringside afterwards and challenged Yamada, but we all know how poorly that turned out. Giant Haystacks vs. Boston Blackie (Merthyr, taped 3/29/90) Boston Blackie looked pretty good in his last outing, but it didn't really matter since he was facing Haystacks here. You may be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later, you job to the Haystacks. Haystacks looked a bit like One Man Gang during this era. Pat Roach vs. Skull Murphy (Merthyr, taped 3/29/90) Skull Murphy vs. Pat Roach! This was right up my alley. One of the biggest revelations of Reslo so far has been how good Roach was as a grizzled veteran. I thought he was washed up a long time before this, but he was laying into Murphy like it was old times again. They always went too short, or rather the promoters didn't give them long enough, but I love this match-up. You have Murphy the instigator/agitator up against a guy who is, literally, too big for him. Seriously, 1990 Roach, long in the tooth and white bearded, is one of the better aging veterans out there. A big revelation and a shame he didn't work Reslo more. -
[1999-05-22-RINGS] Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in May 1999
FYI, it's Yamamoto not Yammamoto. This was a nice match, especially the early mat work before they abandoned the grappling for a stand up contest. In the end, it was a bit one sided towards Yamamoto, who already had a big height advantage. Kohsaka got a few licks in, but it felt like a comprehensively beating regardless of points. Not as epic as their '97 bout.- 10 replies
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Regarding Savage, the bout with Harley was a lot of fun, but too rushed to help his Wrestler of the Year case. Harley's WWF work is a feather in his cap, though. One that's rarely spoken about.
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I can't remember how many matches he had in '89, but Fujiwara took things to a new level when he jumped to the UWF. And Maeda was the coolest motherfucker in Japan in '89.
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I don't know if Santo was the biggest drawing card in Mexico, but the height of his drawing power was I assume from 1993 to 1999. Roughly speaking, from the Los Gringos Locos feud up until the end of the Bestia/Scorpio feud. He was certainly a draw before and after that period, but that was the height of his national exposure aside from maybe his run during the Mistico years.
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It's on my wrestling fan bucket list to watch this WAR vs. New Japan stuff, so I knocked off a few over the last couple of days. They were fun matches, but I don't know that I'd call them great even accounting for the spectacle. Koshinaka and Kimura's brawling reminded me of cartoon wrestling. They weren't laying their shit in at all. Aoyagi was by far the best worker on the New Japan side, but the least prominent of the three and barely featured. The Tenryu exchanges were badass, but there wasn't enough Aoyagi. The crowd heat was amazing, especially the 10/23 Korakuen Hall show where Tenryu's female fans were losing their shit, but Tenryu didn't do much other than stand around and make faces. The 11/23 match couldn't match 10/23 for heat, but the work was better. I have a feeling going ahead that this stuff is going to be sloppy and heated, but there's plenty of theatre to it even if Choshu reaction shot was hokey.
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I was impressed with the Jericho matches. Jericho is one of my least favourite guys around but they worked great together and all of their matches were good. There's so much emphasis in modern WWE on clever spots and a continuous stream of memorable "moments," which is made even more exasperating by the lengths the production crew go to film it from ever intrusive angles, but I thought their work together was about as organic as the modern style allows while still playing to the camera. I also enjoyed the Morrison and Ziggler bouts; workers I would never watch off my own back. The Elimination Chamber was all right -- a bit of a stuntman performance, a few novel spots like you'd expect, but not really as interesting as his singles match work, plus Edge's bug-eyed selling was off putting. Still, this was the first year where I thought all of his recommended matches were good. I don't know that they rank among his career best, but from this sample base, 2009 may have been his best year to date.
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Selling of the piledriver in different territories/eras
ohtani's jacket replied to pol's topic in Pro Wrestling
My guess is that it was either a Pena booking idea or had something to do with TV returning to Mexico City. -
I wanted to echo this as well. Great reads.
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Selling of the piledriver in different territories/eras
ohtani's jacket replied to pol's topic in Pro Wrestling
I'm pretty sure I've seen piledrivers under sold in European wrestling, but Finlay's tombstone piledriver routinely knocked folks out and Marty Jones, Mark Rocco and Ken Joyce, among others, used piledrivers as finishers. -
I think you have La Parka end Goldberg's streak, finish the NWO once and for all, lead the invasion, and unify the world heavyweight titles.
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I'd take Bret's sit down locker room interviews over Cena's raps any day of the week. Bret's delivery wasn't the greatest, but he always chose his words carefully. Does Cena even have a famous promo? I'm mostly familiar with his promo work from pre-match hype videos and I've seen anything that came close to the pre-match interviews for Bret/Diesel at Survivor Series '95. Add to that Bret's heel work, including the famous mic spot where he snapped, and it seems like a no contest.
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I watched that Rude/Chono G-1 bout a few times (in various states of inebriation it should be said) and finally it worked for me. I'm not a fan of fish out of water scenarios in wrestling, but the NWA title still meant something to the Japanese audience at the time and it had tremendous heat even if the fans' reaction towards Rude veered a bit too much toward pantomime at times. Masa Saito's translation of Rude's promo reminded me of that scene in Lost in Translation with the interpreter. Thinking back on this it's a wonder I liked it. The clotheslines didn't look that great, Chono's selling was pretty lousy, and the matwork was mostly boring submissions and blatant rest holds. But somehow the bits in between worked and there was a gravity to it with Dusty and Watts there and all the New Japan big wigs. I don't think Rude came away looking better for having had the bout, but at the same time it was miles above any of Ted's work in Japan.
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They weren't any of those things when they started, though. You think Rocky Maivia demanded a main event push?
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Austin, Rock and Foley were midcarders put on top too.
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This is from '98:
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Backlund came from a legit amateur background and had a completely different style of working. There's that weird promo before one of the Adonis matches where he equates working a match to baking a cake, so let's call it a cake baking style. He worked a slow build style adding more and more ingredients or layers to the mix. I don't think Cena is anywhere near as slow or deliberate. Jerome says he's the best possible Hogan, but I think he may be a better Sting.
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Isn't he playing to his strengths, though? Surely he works the way he does because his stuff looks better this way. Do you mean to say he could be better technically if he were less interested in symbolism?
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That's a good question. As you're probably aware, '87 is a year I've ignored in the past and am only beginning to fill in through Arthur Psycho's channel. van Buyten is the front runner at this point. European worker of the year is a great concept. Maybe I'll have a go at 1974-1991.
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I'm down with Jack Kirby splash pages and comic book wrestling, but how much credit do you give a guy for compensating for his limitations by being larger than life?
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Wouldn't that make him the best in the world? EDIT: Nevermind, I thought you were talking about the Northern Hemisphere.
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Bret's character worked best when he had a chip on his shoulder like at Survivor Series '95, post-Wrestlemania XII and the '97 heel turn. If Montreal had never happened, I assume we get the Hart/Austin rematch at Wrestlemania XIV and then they phase him out of the title picture as he begins to break down. I reckon he leaves anyway since Russo would have probably tried to give him some gimmick he couldn't live with. I suppose a face turn may have occurred, but I doubt he would have been happy being positioned at the IC or Euro title level ala someone like Ken Shamrock. Wrestlemania XIV feels like the end of the road.
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I dunno about this. Bret built up a mythos around himself that he was a working class guy in a world of seven foot giants and four hundred pound monsters who overcame the odds because he was the best at what he did; the Wayne Gretsky of wrestling that the coal miners and the lumberjacks could relate to. And the thing was that he believed it. That's what made his heel turn so brilliant because blurred the lines between scripted TV and his legit bitterness. The problem is that he wasn't that gifted a performer in terms of charisma or projecting a presence, which means even the big title wins are more downbeat than you'd expect from a truly beloved performer. He was popular and had a following, but when Austin and Rock came along they eclipsed him in terms of star presence. A lot of Bret's stuff has some nice subtlety to it even if it's a bit boring to revisit. I'm sure a Cena fan could break down his character better than I can, but I think Bret is a bit underrated when it comes to persona.
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Neither guy is that good technically, but they've both got reps as big match workers and are popular in online circles.
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Backlund and Cena are worlds apart as workers. The real comparison (in my mind) is Cena and Tenryu.