ohtani's jacket

I know I know. Its a huge blind spot for me even though I absolutely love the little bit I've seen. I remember seeing the M-Pro These Days Card and then immediately emailing Jeff Lynch and saying "I don't have your European Listings, can you just pick your 10 favorite Johnny Saint matches and put them on a comp for me?" This was over a decade ago but I remember it having some Breaks, Grey, Finlay, Rocco, Clive Myers, and some other guys and I loved it. I have every intention of jumping into the Euro/WOS stuff for this project. I have some discs already but just haven't made them a priority yet. I was poking through your Euro workers thread just the other day actually so I feel like I'll dive into that soonish. Breaks, Grey and Jones are the gateways. I'm in a weird place with the stuff in that I wish I could discover it all over again while a lot of people haven't started.

It took me a long time to appreciate Misawa, and then one day the penny dropped and now I consider him one of the few geniuses in the business. I actually think he's comparable to a Jordan or Sampras from the same era. Kawada seems to have suffered a slight drop in rep over the years. There was a time when he was the guy you were supposed to like -- almost the Japanese version of Benoit -- and I don't really get that vibe now. The Taue stuff always amuses me because if you praised Taue too much back in the day you had the watchdogs on your case.

You need to throw in a few British/Euro workers, elliot. It's one step removed from lucha, and I despair for its representation.

It's completely understandable that Bret has the view he does, and the Bulldogs were unlike any of the Carolina guys (look at their offence for starters), but what Bret doesn't realise is that it originated with Marty Jones and Mark Rocco not Dynamite.

Every time Flair told some bullshit story and did that nervous little laugh, Bret must have died a little bit inside. What are they pretending to be friends for?

She's underrated for sure. She got a bad rap because of the whole "Hotta punts the clown" bullshit. In order to consider her one of the best I think you'd have to have an alternate take on Joshi or a niche view of it, but stick to your guns.

Sit down interview with Triple H ala Vince and Hogan prior to Wrestlemania VIII. "When you say those words, Paul, it makes me sweat."

Regarding the character stuff, they really only played gimmicks in the WWF. Rude had his whole shtick with the robe, "cut the music", the tights, the Rude Awakening, and Bobby handpicking some woman for him to kiss. Ted had the residence, the jacket, the laugh, the bodyguard, the Million Dollar Dream and the hundred dollar bill down the throat. Later on, he had the theme song and the catchphrase "everybody's got a price." It's impossible to say which gimmick was better, but I strongly disagree that Ted didn't wrestle like a "millionaire" is supposed to. Dibiase nailed that shit. I've always considered him a technical brawler. He had the right amount of technical acumen to suggest he had the best teachers and the right amount of brawling to suggest he wasn't an innately superior athlete. Ironically, I think Rude improved when he shred a lot of the "Ravishing" gimmick and became a legitimate asskicker.

I don't know if either girl is all that underrated. This match is a bit of a perfect storm unless you really go on a crusade for either girl.

She may have gotten him confused with Blue Demon Jr. I doubt she meant someone like Black Shadow Jr.

If Big Daddy was half as good as him he'd be in the HOF already. The Vader feud hasn't been discovered properly yet, so he won't rate a mention, but for his niche he's pretty damn good.

Parv, I thought that was a passionate defense of Dibiase and I applaud you.

Maybe they're just another night for Tef, but what really makes Dibiase special? I can't think of much outside of his signature offence and signature laugh, and to me that's not enough. If you can't write a treatise on a wrestler's character they can't be that memorable.

I watched those two Magnum TA matches for the hell of it (the ones from the same day); and while they were cool, there were times when Dibiase came across as both a poor man's Ric Flair & Terry Funk. It wasn't until he took over on offence that he produced anything you could say was definitively "Dibiase." I'm not sure he was enough of his own man to stand out among the truly great performers. He's just a really good worker trying to be passed off as an all-time great. If he'd been able to have matches like that in the watered down WWF (minus the blood) it would have strengthened his case, but Magnum was busting his ass in those matches, especially the Tulsa one, so it wasn't like it was all Ted shining.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 3 John Quinn/Kendo Nagasaki vs. Neil Sands/Tony St. Clair (4/28/87) This was a fairly entertaining brawl. It was goofy, dumb-as-shit All Star wrestling, but enjoyable in the same way McDonald's is if you haven't eaten it for a few years. It was basically an out of control brawl with public warnings flying everywhere and Billy Finlay in over his head trying to keep everyone in check. Quinn was still pretty mobile at this stage and St. Clair is starting to gain my respect for his veteran work. They had some quality dust-ups in this w/ St. Clair doing a great job of blowing a gasket. Sands had been on TV a couple of times in the 70s before returning to the independents and working the tournaments in Europe. He left the wrestling game in '81 but made a brief comeback in '86. One of the most ordinary looking blokes to lace up a pair of boots, but a great contributor to online discussions over the years. Delivered an amusingly dour one-liner during the pre-match promo that drew a chuckle out of me. Nagasaki was in his element working the all-in style, so All Star had all their bases covered here; however, Walton was strangely unethused. At one point he was commenting on Quinn holding the tag rope and uttered: "he's holding it for now... how long, Lord? How long?" It was the oddest thing I've heard him say. St. Clair and Quinn both got thrown out, and Nagasaki and Sands continued the bout alone. Unfortunately, Sands' offence wasn't really good enough to have a memorable stand-off, but it didn't detract too much from a fatty meal of a bout. Sid Cooper/Zoltan Boscik/Mal Sanders vs. Steve Grey/Rick Wiseman/Johnny Kidd (3/19/88) This was billed as a "Continental Rules" triple tag match with sin binnings instead of public warnings. The idea was that if you committed a foul you'd be sent to the penalty box for 1-5 minutes at the discretion of the referee (or, as the MC called it, the "prison area.") The penalty box in this case was two guard rails in a "V" shape. It was an interesting idea in theory, but a clusterfuck in execution. Jeff Kaye had no fucking idea what he was doing and neither did anybody else really. Grey was sent twice for a total of 6 minutes and Cooper once for 2 mins. It would have worked better in a regular tag match where you could have a clear FIP segment, but for the most part it was business as usual until the offending wrestler returned to the apron (!) and not the ring itself. Drama. Eventually, the heels put Kidd through the ringer and he was able to make a clumsy hot tag to the returning Grey, who cleaned house in equally awkward fashion. If it hadn't been for Sanders innovating some fun bumps that took out his partners as well, the entire thing would have fell flat on its face. It wasn't terrible as the heels were fairly good despite Boscik and Cooper being past their best (Walton called Boscik "Zolly" which I'd never heard him do before); the clumsiness can be chalked up to the lack of proper tag structure in British wrestling. Danny Boy Collins vs. Dave Finlay (Cage match, Merthyr, taped 3/29/90) This was the best Finlay/Collins match so far, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement but they managed to produce some fairly brutal looking stuff within the confines of the cage. Collins finally looked like a man, which was big because manning up has been an issue for him so far. Cool missile dropkick spot towards the end. First of their matches I'd recommend to people who worship at the altar of Finlay.

Bruno Asquini/Gilbert Cesca vs. Les Blousons Noirs (Claude Gessat/Marcel Mannevau) This had a real "catch as lucha" beginning, which I dug. A lot of the exchanges could have been directly aped in Mexico and folks would have been none the wiser. This was a bit more work orientated than other Les Blousons Noirs tags, which tend to have a great number of cut-off spots and heel cheating. Here the focus was on a steady flow of exchanges with the rhythm and tempo being key to enjoyment. It was filmed at a different venue from usual (w/ more of a studio layout than Élysée Montmartre); perhaps giving it a different feel. Asquini (I want to say) threw a punch combo at the end that made me sit upright, and all told it was another nifty match.

Didn't rate that Punk match at all and actually thought Punk was pretty bad in it. Watched a so-so Evan Bourne match and bit the bullet on Rey vs. Edge, but the Michaels tag ended up being the best of the lot. Fair to say, 2008 was the worst year of Rey's run so far.

Flair wasn't the same worker after '93 so Flair vs. Rude not being that great in '93 wasn't entirely on Rude. Dibiase vs. Virgil is sublime, though. You have to give credit to the booking though -- the slow burn and Piper going nuts on commentary. The SummerSlam match wouldn't work if Ted wasn't trolling Piper at ringside. Late 80s WWF guys are hurt by not getting longer matches on PPV. That really damages their reputation because you have to look to the houseshows, and houseshows are houseshows.

This is tough. Rude's best match in the WWF (vs. Warrior) was better than any match Dibiase had there, but I'd rather watch a random Dibiase WWF match than a Rude one any day of the week. Obviously, Rude's early 90s run is better than Dibiase's, but he was working with some great workers in a promotion that didn't have as overbearing a house style and put a far greater emphasis on ring work. And even then his work continued to be dogged by rest holds. I like the stuff with Manny vs. The Rock 'n' Roll Express, but it's fair to say that it wasn't on the level of Ted's Mid South work. I kind of lean towards Rude because of his WCW work, but you can boil that down to one year (1992) and it features a string of disappointments along with the top tier Dangerous Alliance stuff -- the Dustin feud and the lack of a defining match with Sting being two of the major blots. I think I'll do an about face and go with Ted, but he's no great shakes either.

So, who's Willis Reed?

This has got to be two indy workers.

Michel Saulnier vs. Le Petit Prince (9/30/67) The Little Prince was a renowned lightweight star who had debut the year before, I believe, in a match against Andre (then billed as a 144 kilos.) He was a flashy and flamboyant worker in keeping with both his gimmick and status as a lightweight draw, and I was immediately more taken with the ground game of Saulnier. Fans of Johnny Saint would probably enjoy the Prince. He worked at a solid clip and the action was off the hook at times, but it could have been weighted a bit better as the counters lost their sting after a while. I guess fast moving action was the calling card of the lightweights and one match is too little to pigeon hole the Prince. Another day where I was more into the rhythm of the bout and I probably would have thought it was impossibly cool. Batman vs. Teddy Boy (9/30/67) Batman actually wore the full Batman costume to the ring. That's cool. I guess it's not surprising that there was a Batman gimmick in the 60s given how phenomenally successful the TV show was, but it's not the kind of thing you expect to see in a French ring. In Mexico nobody bats an eyelid, but France? It's another layer to what was going on in the 60s. I guess ALPRA's uploads have focused a lot on guys like Chemoul and Cesca and not so much on the masked superstars and assortment of characters; but in any event, Batman was apparently British worker Dave Larsen, who was a Paul Lincoln guy. I assume he was a much better worker than the Batman stuff showed as it looked like he was trying to work a non-European power style to fit the idea of a super hero wrestling. Goofy, but harmless fun.

Where are you getting all this GAEA from? Did you order it? Makes me want to take a blast down memory lane.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 2 Dave Finlay vs. Kid McCoy (Cage Match, Cardiff, taped 3/30/90) One thing I'll say for Reslo is at least they didn't sit around on their derriere as the American product took over. They may not have succeeded in creating a product that matched the slick production values of US wrestling, but by pinching cage matches and other American gimmicks they at least put up a fight. It's hard to work a good cage match when there's no history or tradition to them in your territory, but they must have had some idea that they were used for blow offs in the States. Why then was this your typical Finlay squash inside a cage? These were bad years for Finlay as he had all the tools but none of the nouce required to work a great match. I sometimes wonder if it was an ego thing -- known tough guy constantly looking to prove himself and protection his spot -- not to mention the fact that this was King Ben's kid and God knows what relationship Finlay and Ben had. On the other hand, his formula was so ingrained by this point that perhaps it was impossible to deviate from it. His offence looked good, but he was so slow and methodical compared to his Riot Squad days where he was a hell of a bumper and pretty much a super worker. In any event, if you're going to separate the men from the boys apparently a cage match is the way to do it. McCoy tried attacking Finlay after the bout to get some heat back, but was brushed aside like a gnat. I miss Jones vs. Finlay. Peter Bainbridge vs. Garry Clwyd (8/4/87) Teenage boy wrestling is not really my thing, but they did all right for their age. While they were wrestling, there was a sudden clip of Hogan ripping off his singlet in front of thousands of screaming fans while Jesse claimed Orton was a chance of beating them... then back to the boys... Why did wrestling go off the air again? Skull Murphy vs. Fuji Yamada (Caernarfon, taped 3/14/89) Boring match. It wasn't European wrestling and it wasn't an honest attempt at creating a dramatic heel vs. babyface bout either. Murphy basically clocked in and clocked out, and Liger's roided body was off putting. Danny Boy Collins vs. Robbie Hagan (Machynlleth, taped 2/5/91) Man this was generic. I suddenly remembered why I don't like Danny Boy Collins. After hitting a leg drop on Hagan, the heel rolled out of the ring and Collins did a back flip followed by a windmill fist pump. Forgetting how awful a pose that is, he didn't even drop kick him out of the ring; the guy took a spell on the outside and Collins started over-celebrating. Who does that? I've lightened up on most guys over the years even Naylor and Sanders, but Collins will be a struggle. Hagan was a thick, stocky guy with limited skills. He had plenty of ideas about what he should be doing but couldn't make any of his stuff looked good. Collins' offence was all wrong, and if I'd had his ear at the time I would have told him to drop it all. At least there was a generic finish to complement the rest of the bout. Dave Finlay vs. Danny Boy Collins (Pontardawe, taped 4/4/89) These two had so many matches together that it almost needs to be a good series for both men's sake. At this point, it might even be a bigger feather in Finlay's cap if he can actually produce the goods with Collins. This was the best match of the hour almost by default as it was a bout that ran longer than 10 minutes, but Finlay was again a rock when it came to his slow pace, methodical style, and the match took a turn for the worse every time Collins was on offence. To have a good match with Finlay during this era, you need to take the fight to him like Kincaid or Jones did, but Collins would rather prance around. He finally showed some grit when they brawled on the outside, but that was the end of the bout. Whinging aside, this wasn't terrible. but it wasn't promising either. It was cool seeing a nine-year-old Arthur Psycho running around with a Metallica patch on his jacket, though.