Johnny Sorrow

Gorilla and Jesse just felt so comfortable to listen to. It's tough to put it into words, but there really was a feeling of "I'm enjoying these two guys" that shone through, especially if it was an MSG Card on the MSG Network. There'd be a lot of boring "WWF early in the card" shit on those shows where Gorilla and Jesse made it watchable. And I always liked that Jesse and Gorilla always came off as being pals even if they disagreed. Jesse would even call Gorilla "Gino". I remember a very short lived "feud" between Ventura and Sammartino back then as well that was basically an announcer's feud. I remember Jesse in the ring and Bruno announcing with Vince and some sort of argument went on. It got dropped after, like, two weeks I think. Actually, any discussion about WWF TV announcing should include Bruno. Everyone's been pretty clear about whether or not they liked Gorilla..but Bruno was all over TV in the early to mid 80's and no one really talks about how bad he was. Especially for a guy who was and is incredibly well spoken.

The Tito/Savage no-DQ match from MSG. Not just Gorilla to be fair, but also Alfred Hayes and Ernie Ladd on color analysis. Even though Finkle shouts plain as day that there are no disqualifications, the three completely ignore that and spend the whole match bitching about the officiating and screaming for Savage to be DQ'd. I'm sort of agnostic about Gorilla as a HOF candidate and lean more towards the positive side than negative when looking at him overall. But that one match was a great one that I find to be a very tough watch because of the announcing. Things like that used to happen all the time in all the promotions back then. Matches would be No DQ/ No count out and the refs seemed as if no one told them, as well as the announcers sometimes.

Well, first of all it's important to describe the differences between the Spectrum, where the WWF ran shows, and the Philly Civic Center, where the NWA/ Crockett promoted. The Spectrum was a huge building, your typical Hockey/ Basketball arena that was three levels plus the floor. It was part of the Philly Sports complex of the day that also included the Vet and JFK Stadium and easily accessible from I-95. The Civic Center was located deep in the heart of town and was a lot smaller. It had only floor seats and one large level of seats above. The Civic Center NWA crowd was not full of little kids, mainly teenagers and adults. The WWF crowds had far more youngsters with their families. Also, the NWA shows attracted far more African Americans than the WWF. The NWA crowd was generally more "adult". The Civic Center was smoky, smelled like stale beer, and had a far more "rough" aura than the Spectrum and the crowds reflected that. As far as regulars go, I can't really say if the WWF shows had a lot of them. I'm sure they did but the place was so big and the crowds so big that I don't recall seeing the same people repeatedly. The Spectrum also was very strict on having you sit in your assigned seat. Now, The Civic Center TOTALLY had regulars, me and my pal Joey among them. You'd always see the same people, from the drug dealer/ scalpers in the parking garage, to the chick who sold merchandise and hosted a local radio show about wrestling, to "The Black Nature Boy", (not Scoot Andrews), a brother who'd dress up like Flair at every show and walk around the Arena going "WOOOO!". The atmosphere at the Civic Center always felt a little crazy, which is why we loved it. We were WWF Fans as well, but there was a disconnect of sorts as it was such a huge, well produced show where as the Crockett shows felt more gritty. As far as people only going to one or the other? Well, if they were running different dates we at least would try to go to both. When they ran head to head, we'd usually go to the NWA show, but if the WWF show was stacked or had some matches we wanted to see we'd go to the Spectrum. We also preferred the Civic Center because our folks would usually drop us off and go do something in the city, and then pick us up after the show. At the Civic Center we could get served beer despite being 16, and you could smoke weed in the upper level. Hey, just being honest. As far as the whole "heels getting cheers in Philly" thing goes, I'm sure that started when Backlund was champ, long before I was going to shows. But it was more prevalent at the NWA shows. And it wasn't because guys were heels that they'd get cheers. It was if they seemed "cool". For instance, Tully Blanchard would get booed out of the building, but Flair was ALWAYS super popular, especially with the African American audience. I watched Starrcade 87 Chi-Town Heat there on closed circuit and when Flair won the belt back the place was going fucking bonkers. But the Road Warriors also were really popular, as were Magnum TA, Jimmy Valiant, and Ron Bass of all people during his face turn. Luger was really popular, and so was Nikita. Man, Nikita was SUPER popular as a heel, while Ivan and Krusher were hated. Rude and Fernandez were insanely over with the crowd during their brief run, and when Jimmy Garvin officially turned face there the roof came off. Over at the Spectrum, the only heels I remember getting cheers were Savage and The Hart Foundation. Oh and Orndorff had a lot of fans during his feud with Hogan. I saw them in a cage match and the crowd was 60/40 for Hogan. However, when we saw Hogan fight Killer Khan, I'm positive that the only two people cheering Khan and booing Hogan were Joey and me. Which led to me getting loogied on by a grown man a few rows above me after Hogan won. Many years later, when WCW was just about to explode with the NWO, they ran one last show at the Civic Center. My wife at the time and I went so I could see one last show there and say goodbye. The place seemed so much smaller than it did when I was a teenager. I love Philly.

How dare you sir. The Bull was great. I remember him leaping up against the wall and robbing Johnny Bench of a Home Run once and it was spectacular. Granted , I don't remember much else but hey, I was a little kid. (Bull may very well have been not great in the field. But he was my childhood hero.) Luzinski was famously terrible in the outfield. Famously. The single most famous loss in Phillies history (Black Monday '77) was due to Luzinski's inability to catch a fly ball at the wall. For about four years though, he was a legitimate terror at the plate. I honestly was too young to recall. I just loved the guy and had posters of him all over my room when I was little. All I really remember is him hitting homers, so there ya go.

How dare you sir. The Bull was great. I remember him leaping up against the wall and robbing Johnny Bench of a Home Run once and it was spectacular. Granted , I don't remember much else but hey, I was a little kid. (Bull may very well have been not great in the field. But he was my childhood hero.)

I always liked it when Ross or anyone mentioned real sports backgrounds. As stated numerous times, it made guys seem more legit and also it made wrestling look like a legit "sport" for a guy to get into, in a kayfabe sense. I'd rather hear "He was a rough tackle for Miami" then "He was a garbageman who's decided to wrestle"ala the WWF "guys with other jobs" deal.

That would be pretty awesome. But only hardcore fans would get it. Nah, nonfans would get it as a joke name. "Ribbing" isn't a wrestling exclusive term.

I can certainly throw in my two cents on the Philly scene of the mid-80's, the fan attitudes, the NWA/ WWF promoting war all from the perspective of a 15-17 yearold. And I also bought every Apter mag from 84-86.

Besides, the Greatest match of all Time is Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard "I Quit Cage Match" from Starrcade 1985.

Real quick, while I agree that real sports don't have "faces and heels" ala pro wrestling...it is true that the media likes to run with that stuff now and again. Weird thing is, this is a Boston paper portraying the Pats as agents of Satan.

Ah yes. I still remember with great glee the sight of Pervis Ellison, Milt "The Stilt" Wagner, Herbert Crook, Billy Thompson, and Jeff Hall celebrating after beating Duke for the Championship.

Oh Sean Mooney. Pettengill on TV was one of those WWF things that made you change the channel to anything else, or sit there and yell at the TV with your friends, "SHUT UP!" while you go on to each other about how awful he is.

I always loved the reaction of the truck guy on commentary. He said something like, "That wasn't supposed to happen" and it cracks me up.

I always love how whenever some doc shows some guys backstage going over their upcoming match it's always, "So I'll start and do my bullshit, then wham, wham, switch it, do some bullshit, hit that buckle spot, wham, wham, some bullshit and then we go home." And then we watch it and use terms like, "Control segments".

Define "wrestle", cause Valiant was fine.

It's Albano's fault for taking George to that quack of a shrink with his verkakte machine.

I always took it as a recreation of the Jack Hart angle from Florida minus the heel turn, just because Jack Hart was Barry Horowitz.

Brings back memories of scoopthis.

Right, but did it have the glass breaking before the theme started?

I'm loving this set so far, and I just thought of something and I'm hoping someone can confirm this or not. Wasn't the signature sound of the glass breaking at the start of Austin's entrance inspired by the Pillman home invasion, as you heard Austin breaking the glass of the door?

Too bad he's been jobbed almost beyond repair. I guess he's still over, but God they have done little to make him seem like a star lately IMO. That brings up something I've been thinking about. Who exactly thinks "I can't get behind him because he's done a bunch of jobs recently"? He's over with the crowds still so they obviously don't care that he lost a bunch of matches. The "smart" crowd I'd think wouldn't care, as he's an awesome wrestler. So who are these people who are saying "that guy can't be a champ, he's lost a lot."?

And there's that Tito/ JYD vs The Funks match from Mania 2 that steals the whole show.

I always thought Bischoff joined the NWO because he wanted to be part of the cool thing that was so big at the time, and basically bumped DiBiase out of his spot.

And to really show that Kennedy's full of shit http://www.layfieldreport.com/my-feud-with...iend-eddie.blog Now, I'm not saying that what Layfield says is the total truth, but it rings far more true than Ken Kennedy talking to RF or whoever.