Grimmas

Hmm... no.

Meltzer justed tweeted that there has only been one five-star match in lucha libre history (Atlantis-Villano III). That seems like part of the problem.

Catch up time, posted three shows in quick format. If people have questions about what happened I will answer. I will post 2-3 more in quick format then do the next one in real time. The first real time one will feature the tournament for the Mexican National Trios Titles!

CMLL Homenaje a Ray Mendoza February 1, 1985 1. La Fiera y Valente Fernandez y Hombre Bala def. Jerry Estrada y Kato Kung Lee y Moguro 2. Los Missioneros de La Muerte def. El Solar y Super Astro y Ultraman 3. El Hijo del Santo y Alofonso Dantes y Mocha Cota def. Emilio Charles Jr. y Talisman y Espanto Jr. 4. Los Villanos def. Los Brazos 5. Cien Caras w/ Perro Aguayo def. El Satanico w/ MS-1 to retain the Mexian National Heavyweight Title CMLL Super Viernes February 8, 1985 1. Atlantis y Ringo Mendoza y Cachorro Mendoza def. Tony Benetto y Hombre Bala y Alfonso Dantes 2. El Dandy y Fuerza Guerrera def. La Fiera y Mocha Cota 3. Blue Panther y Babe Face y Black Terry def. Tony Acre y Vulcano y Popitekus 4. Mexican National Light Heavyweight Champion Negro Casas def. Gran Cochise 5. El Canek y Sangre Chicano y Perro Aguayo def. Los Infernales CMLL Super Viernes February 15, 1985 1. Super Astro y El Solar y Ultraman def. Talisman y Moguro y Kato Kung Lee 2. Los Villanos def. Hombre Bala y Tony Salazar y Ringo Mendoza 3. Negro Casas y Black Terry y Blue Panther def. Gran Cochise y Tony Acre y Vulcano 4. El Hijo del Santo y El Canek def. Espanto Jr. y Emilio Charles Jr. 5. Mexican National Middleweight Champion Atlantis def. El Dandy

It's so frustrating. There is talent there I really love like Allie, Saxton, Rosemary, etc.. yet I can't watch this shit. Wrestling is not complicated, why does everybody make it so difficult on themselves?

Every ROH ppv I always forget than am shocked by the price. What ROH is saying with this price is: ROH PPV = WrestleMania, NXT Take Over, EVOLVE 80 & 81, Joey Janella's show, Beyond, WWN Supershow, ACW

So there is a show on the Observer site that reviews 98 Raws, but nothing that reviews lucha or EVOLVE or other indies?

I don't understand the desire to get so many people on the show. I'd prefer a trios instead of a six-way or something, if you want to go that route. Mentioned above, but SCI is the best multi-man. I do remember digging the Horsemen vs Rey/Kidman vs Raven/Saturn one in WCW, not sure if it holds up.

Always was a big fan of his, even if he scared me as a kid.

Ok, Is that what I said? I said the way we talk about celebrities bodies either adds to or pushes people towards ED's. Do you disagree with that? If you do, then fine. I'd urge you to read up on it. If you agree with my statement, then why continue it at all, even if it's a tiny subset that may not be harming anyone? It's the same practice that is harmful.

Stro, I'm not claiming to have special knowledge. If you feel the way people talk about celebrities has no effect on regular people, well I just disagree. I've seen lots of evidence to the contrary and I'd urge you to read and learn more. I can give you some links if you'd like.

Sorry, Crosby overweight you are correct, it's been a while since I looked at it. The industry really needs to switch from weight to health.

Ok, they look overweight, even if may be perfectly healthy. What does pointing it out and mocking it achieve? Le'ts not pretend people don't mock them for it. Bringing up BMI was just a reference to show you how stupid the term overweight is. You may mean they have fat on it, other's use it a term to mean unhealthy. It's not a strawman to bring up BMI if you are talking about overweight, since that is what doctors use. As for your other comment, all these hypotheticals well this is an attitude that is harming people. Look into anyone who talks about ED's and you'll see how hurtful media and people's perceptions of it feed the ED. It's not really hypothetical. I brought up Big Show, just as an example. We really have no idea if he's healthy or not. As an example, my wife lost a lot of weight and got all this praise, a lot of the weight was lost in an unhealthy manner and the praise only feed the ED. So yeah, you never really known. That's a real world example of how complicated it is. I'm a little weary of praising people for losing weight, because there is a not so tiny chance that they are actually less healthy now and praising them will only cause further harm. You can praise Big Show for having abs now and it may be the correct response, I don't really know nor do you. EDIT: So, somehow my last part disappeared. The issues are, I know over a dozen people who deal with ED's, women particularly. This talk you are doing is harmful and they would tell you that. There is a problem where most people hide their ED's, but this type of talk only feeds it. If you want to learn more about this subject, I would suggest reading or listening to some women with ED's to gain a perspective on this. Someone like Kati Morton on youtube is really good.

You have NO FUCKING IDEA if Kevin Owens is over weight or not. Did you not read the shit about set theory of weight I wrote? Do you have any ideal what is ideal body weight is? How do you know he's overweight, because he has fat on him? By overweight you are implying he's unhealthy or could be healthier. Do you know that? Of course you don't, that is why it's a problem to state that. If you just mean he's overweight by the standard that he has fat on him, then so what? Why even bring that up, what is the point? Maybe you mean if he lost weight or got more toned he'd be a better in ring wrestler? Ok, maybe? You have no evidence in any way if that's true. Be more clear what you mean by overweight. Over something so stupid by just ACKNOWLEDGING THE APPEARANCE of a human. Not even judging or shaming. Just mentioning how someone looks causes you to flip your shit and try to wear everyone down. In a form of entertainment where appearances might be the most important aspect of one's career. We might as well not be allowed to talk about a wrestler's selling ability at that point. You might want to re-read the thread. Someone stated that wrestling fans don't care about a wrestler's weight at all (or having some fat on them) and I challenged them on that. Of course you can ACKNOWLEDGE AN APPEARANCE. Maybe you should actually listen to what I'm saying, instead of getting SUPER OFFENDED by what I'm saying. On the other hand, how you acknowledge someone's appearance has connotations which you may not even intend. Don't act like saying this guy's fat is some innocent statement. In no way did I say, don't acknowledge someone's appearance. However, keep building your straw men.

Since I bought it up in my post, Charles asked me about it. I'm stepping down as a mod, since it seems to be bothering people.

I guess I wasn't clear, as people are jumping down my throat, so I'll try to clarify. Then I guess I will move on from this topic. There is a really fucked up attitude towards weight in society. By the definitions doctors use, a great athlete like Sidney Crosby is obese. The greatest hockey player in the world is obese, as is most athletes. We are in a situation where someone who has a perfect blood test and can run a 5K is told to lose 25 pounds by a doctor, based on an outdated system. They are called obese at an unhealthy level. How can that be? In media, we have people calling anybody who isn't the ideal fat and mocking them. We have people praising people battling with anorexia for being the ideal body weight. 42% of women in athletics where appearance is valued deal with eating disorders. Heck, Big Show has been praised lately for having abs. Do we know what he did to get there? It may be dedication, it be may steroids, it may be an ED, we don't know. This is all very messed up. The term fat in itself is not bad, however the connotations it is used in society is pushing into a huge problem. Not to mention the science that is not even clear on what a healthy weight is. Doctors push BMI, while many scientists have condemned it has a horrible measure. In fact there is evidence that weight may be based on set theory, i.e. your weight has an ideal limit for yourself and can vary a bit, but will naturally go to the state it wants. Whether that is deemed fat from society, skinny, or the ideal that is pushed in movies and magazines. Some people just naturally have a "fat" body and it's they can't do anything healthy to fix that. Those are all major issues and when you call someone who is an amazing athlete fat, there is a subtle and damning message you are pushing. My wife was exercising a lot (3-5 times a week), could run a 5k and went to the doctor with a perfect blood test. She was told, thanks to BMI, that she should lose 25 pounds. She did and then some and in the process an eating disorder emerged. Yes, she lost 25+ pounds and was less healthy. Yet, what happened? Everyone she met praised her. "You look great." "You look amazing." "You are my goal", Yes, she got praised for having an eating disorder and being an an unhealthy weight that could only be maintained by purging. This is the society we live in. This is incredibly fucked up. So, when you joke about Chris Hero being fat and saying he should be covered up or whatever, I don't think that is a very good thing to do. I'm sorry if this offends you or you think I am a fucking idiot or a delicate snowflake who shouldn't be a mod and she be mocked. I will step down as a mod, if everybody wants. Whatever. Ridicule me if you want, go for it. The truth is you know someone with an eating disorder, they just aren't talking about it and you may be making it more difficult for them and that is fucked up.

The problem with the term overweight is that the person saying it has no idea if that's true or not. Do you know what someone's ideal body weight is? Also calling an athlete like Chris Hero overweight or fat, when they are doing amazing athletic things.. is just odd. What are you even doing or what is the point? For Johnny, it depends on the person. The connotations are there and can be really hurtful. Obviously there are exceptions.

It actually started when someone claimed fans don't hate overweight wrestlers. All I did was state a reason why I think they do and questioned what someone met by the term "overweight". That is nothing like you said at all.

If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on. I would love to talk about it. I haven't seen any argument that states body shaming is good for society yet, though.From all the reading, and talking to people and evidence I can see, body shaming is a serious issue in North America at least. You should see what it's like in a place like China if you think its bad here. Even at America's worst, we got nothing on that. I'm sorry, but the argument that it's worse somewhere else isn't an argument for anything.

If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on. I would love to talk about it. I haven't seen any argument that states body shaming is good for society yet, though.From all the reading, and talking to people and evidence I can see, body shaming is a serious issue in North America at least.

Don't want to talk UFC, don't watch it. Don't care about it. As for your comment here, I don't go to those places. The places I do, I do call them out.

I don't care if it's talked about in how it portrays a character. That's completely fine. The issue comes with actually body shaming. "Braun Strowman" looks like a complete bad ass, his size plays into that". Awesome, fine! "Chris Hero is fat." Is not helpful in anyway. If what you mean is "Chris Hero does not look like an athlete, so I don't buy him kicking ass". Sure, that's fine.

What does a wrestler's mask have to do with body shaming someone? I concede my UFC point, I haven't watched it in a decade or so.

Sorry I don't follow UFC enough. If people with society perfect bodies get advantages over others, that's pretty messed up. UFC is a sport. As for your last sentence, I'm sorry I completely disagree with you. Yes, others feel it's important to them. That's not the issue. The issue is criticizing the bodies of great athletes calling them too fat or too skinny is a disaster for society. It adds to so many problems and is a practice that needs to be stopped. If you want to think to yourself whatever you want, go for it. However, I will call out body shaming every time. Not because it's my personal preference, it's because it's actually harmful. Here you are talking about height. I have no issues with that, nor does anybody else. Talk about height all you want. See how you can have a discussion without any body shaming there. It's not that hard. I also said he's 100 pounds lighter and that's just as important as the height difference. It DOES matter. Zack Sabre Jr's deal of dominating people with technical wrestling doesn't work if the guy he's wrestling is a lot heavier and looks strong enough to just force his way out of holds. Taker is 100 pounds heavier, because he is a bigger man. That's not body shaming in any way. There is nothing wrong with that. Again with the ZSJ comment, that isn't shaming anyone. In the past sure, before I realized how fucked up the whole society and medical industry is when it comes to heath and weight. Also, my personal opinion and my public opinion don't have to align. If I think something hurtful, why would I share it? Again, I don't watch enough UFC to know. Last time I watched Tank Abbott was a big star. Yeah, Vince is not my standard on what right and wrong is. To clarify, body shaming is harmful to society. I will call out anyone who body shames.

Here you are talking about height. I have no issues with that, nor does anybody else. Talk about height all you want. See how you can have a discussion without any body shaming there. It's not that hard.