soup23

You should at least watch the main event Parv.

I was low on the main event too. The action was not bad up until the finish but not all that inspiring either. Dolph bothers me with his selling sometimes in that he relies on playing complete dead and then finding a sudden burst of energy way too much. A little subtlety would go a long way in his overall babyface act. Sting's pop coming out honestly felt about as low as it possibly could be to me for someone of his stature debuting in a new environment. It didn't feel organic at all like the Mizdow stuff and the crowd had to talk themselves into the "this is awesome" chant. Also, we just got done recording a show discussing heels. HHH's reaction when Sting came out is indefensible to me. Compare it to Arn at Clash 17 and see who got the better heel reaction. HHH just stared at him for five minutes with a wont back down attitude. Steph carried the ending segment showing ass for him. The Dolph moment is nice and I will reserve some of the qualms I have on him or his ceiling until I see what the follow up is. However, THIS was the free show to drive up network viewers and coming out the biggest thing is Dolph without a ready made feud for him (I guess they could maybe do Rollins again) and a 55 year old facing HHH at Mania. That doesn't exactly seem like a great idea to me into gaining eyeballs and past fans of a bygone era to invest in your network.

Johnny, is that you???? Welcome aboard

Join Steven Graham, Dan McGinn and Aaron George as they take a look back at Survivor Series 1989. Is this the greatest open to a PPV ever? Where does the show rank all-time? All this and much more in this PTBN Survivor Series Rewind Special. http://placetobenation.com/ptbn-survivor-series-rewind-survivor-series-1989/ SOUP: This is the first of a three part series of looking at Survivor Series shows. Be on the lookout for 1998 and 2009 in the upcoming two weeks.

I do envision Muto coming out spewing mist being a pretty cool moment especially if Arn freaks out the same way. You could even talk about their tv title backstory or something.

Fujinami isn't a bad choice and they do have the history of bringing in New Japan talent so I could see how some people could think it was him, Muto, etc.

People who cite headlining modern WrestleMania's as a major feather in a candidates drawing cap. The Rock has won Best Box Office Draw in the Observer Awards, essentially based solely on Mania. Even in a year he didn't actually wrestle. He did also have the Survivor Series bump that year. I do think that Mania buyrate is a feather in Rock's cap considering the bump of that buyrate compared to other years and the format of that card. HHH vs. Taker can't take much credit for it since Taker vs. HBK the year before in a more high profile spot with the career stip did 250k less. Ditto for Cena vs. Miz. You can also see that the other big shows of 2011 (SummerSlam and Rumble) did worse than the last two years which show the bump was pretty much caused by Rock.

The HHH wanted long NWA epics for the 2003 run has been seen as a myth to me based on watching the 2003 PPV matches in order the past couple of months. They are still super shitty, just not in an NWA way but more a sneaky heel that will get beat up for 90% of the match and bleed but show how resourceful he is kind of way. We have seen a history of WWF/WWE gaffing on not pulling the trigger at SummerSlam. Angle probably should have beat Austin at 2001 as his win at Unforgiven felt more hollow. The face turn of Orton flopped terribly after 04 and they changed course. The Goldberg example is probably the worst offense of this as the Phoenix crowd was clamoring for him to destroy HHH in the Chamber. HHH cowered in fear and then got a lucky shot to retain to the dismay of everyone. The Unforgiven crowd was terrible and the match was also with neither guy having any focus. I have seen Goldberg have exciting matches in 1998 and have sub 12 minute main events that feel exciting and explosive. The match at Unforgiven was no where close to the Nash or DDP matches from late 1998.

I know they had other matches Oj but those feel more like add ons and addendum. I sure they would have continued to feud but I'm not going to mark against a feud because the outside elements happening (Tenryu leaving) enriched it. Misawa vs Kawada is a great feud and I feel like one of the biggest fans of the 5/1/98 match but there is a sense of " these guys again" when they enter the ring. Jumbo and tenryu didn't have the chance for that feeling to resonate.

That is commitment Matt, but she was probably starting to notice your love affair with bock anyway.

Actually, I am the opposite. My wife not being a wrestling fan the two most prominent times of my dating life (November 2005-started dating and Fall 2008 - got married) are pretty big blind spots for almost everything. Now on the contrary, since having my son, I have greatly enjoyed a lot of the wrestling I have watched but feel more disconnected with the current product since the previous two periods I mentioned. Moral of the story is that maybe I am an enigma but the correlation doesn't exist for me.

Running thoughts while listening: 1. Who is Adam and who is Brian? Sorry I like putting a name to a handle 2. I would maybe time stamp the MMA up or just put it either on the very front or back end of the show for people that don't have much interest in that. 3. Enjoyed the Survivor Series preview, you guys gave your thoughts on each match in a timely manner and brought up some good points with drawing it out. 4. If Not _____, Then who is a good option for content. I always enjoy hearing old school theories in audio format and I thought the choices were sensible if a little conventional (Shawn and Bulldog for example). Mabel being picked seemed strange on the surface. I need more backstory on the love affair with Mabel. 5. TNA impact unfortunately was kind of a victim of time between recording and release but the general spiel of the company was good. 6. The upcoming themed shows sound good. Good effort boys and this is being added to the rotation. Length was good too.

Been rewatching this as well Elliot to finally kick my ass in gear and fill out a ballot. This is the third time I have watched to disc 3 and every time, I come away around the Lizmark match by audibly declaring that Satanico is fucking great. That Gran Cochisse match just gets richer and richer every time. The Santo mask ripping match also gets raised every time I watch it. This set really is great stuff and I am committed to finishing it before the end of the year.

Non-wrestler is tough for me to see many candidates get in based on the "five vote" only rule and that most of them have a fairly good argument for themselves minus Matysik.

Yeah, it is a perception of Memphis of being all angles, characters, schtick and stalling. It is also perceived as very regional and "southern" rooted.

Thanks Chad, I think it was one of the strongest episodes in a long time. Here is a question for everyone, is there any other variations on another group or other variations you would like to hear? I thought a Generations Horseman (Peak guy from 70,80,90,00) would be fun. For the 70's, I have: 70: Buddy Rose (workhorse, cocky heel) 80: Ric Flair (ACE) 90: Brian Pillman ( Shit stir-er) 00: Chris Hero (Barry WIndham Role, tag with Pillman) Weakness here is no Enforcer type role but I think the interplay in promos between the first three could overcome that.

On this special PTBN Survivor Series Rewind edition of The Brad and Chad Show, Brad convenes with Justin Rozzero and Ben Morse to rank the 27 Survivor Series shows. Where do your favorites stack up? Is there a clear #1? Tune in to find out! http://placetobenation.com/brad-and-chads-survivor-series-rewind-special-ranking-the-survivor-series-shows/

Latest edition was one of my favorite PWSS and the 1:45 just blew by. I thought Will's point about modern 4 Horseman and not really knowing wrestler's today true personality was astute. Ziggler seems a lot more genuinely like a good guy than any of the Golden Age Horseman outside of the ring.

smoky mountain??? i *think* that was when he had the mini-feud with bob armstrong... It was but that still feels very temporary and bit player. It is a minor point but sometimes these arbitrary years and Dave's thinking drives me a little crazy.

AJ Styles has been in great matches this year. He was not a good draw in New Japan. He did draw some on the indies but that shouldn't be close to HOF level. The Murdoch 2024 is perplexing to me. I could see an argument for 2021 with the Hardliners stuff but where the fuck was he a major player in 1994 wrestling?

My favorite installment yet guys. A lot of impassioned arguments.

Nice List Zenjo and will certainly be watching a lot of the joshi here. Probably most surprised by the Saturn vs. Goldberg result actually as I liked it for what it was but thought Saturn tried way too much stuff for my tastes. I can see that being rewarded though.

Cheers Zenjo and I am surprised at the 7 out of 10 thing as well. I enjoyed watching WWF's plight as I thought their angles and overall presentation of the main event stuff was top notch for the entire year until December. It was fun to track that. WCW made me sad to watch because in some ways they had the most emotionally jarring moments of the year with Flair and GOldberg winning the title but they also had some straight shit with Warrior and most Wolfpac stuff. All Japan was a pleasant surprise as 1997 felt like them on the downside and I thought the big matches kicked ass for the year and they sprinkled in some abnormal stuff like AKiyama vs. Ogawa. Rings and Battlarts was of course a lot of fun. I probably least enjoyed ECW as I couldn't get into the angles and only 2-3 of the matches really connected with me of the footage I watched.

I thought about this for a while and I think one of the things that can detract a great feud ever so slightly is not having the climax be at a satisfying point in time. Misawa vs. Kobashi and Misawa vs. Kawada have this problem IMO. That is why Jumbo vs. Tenryu is my pick. It would have been very easy for 10/88 to be the time for Jumbo to drop the fall to Tenryu but they pushed one more time and made 6/5/89 that much more beautiful. That is why it is my pick.