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Johnny, is that you???? Welcome aboard

Join Steven Graham, Dan McGinn and Aaron George as they take a look back at Survivor Series 1989. Is this the greatest open to a PPV ever? Where does the show rank all-time? All this and much more in this PTBN Survivor Series Rewind Special. http://placetobenation.com/ptbn-survivor-series-rewind-survivor-series-1989/ SOUP: This is the first of a three part series of looking at Survivor Series shows. Be on the lookout for 1998 and 2009 in the upcoming two weeks.

I do envision Muto coming out spewing mist being a pretty cool moment especially if Arn freaks out the same way. You could even talk about their tv title backstory or something.

Fujinami isn't a bad choice and they do have the history of bringing in New Japan talent so I could see how some people could think it was him, Muto, etc.

People who cite headlining modern WrestleMania's as a major feather in a candidates drawing cap. The Rock has won Best Box Office Draw in the Observer Awards, essentially based solely on Mania. Even in a year he didn't actually wrestle. He did also have the Survivor Series bump that year. I do think that Mania buyrate is a feather in Rock's cap considering the bump of that buyrate compared to other years and the format of that card. HHH vs. Taker can't take much credit for it since Taker vs. HBK the year before in a more high profile spot with the career stip did 250k less. Ditto for Cena vs. Miz. You can also see that the other big shows of 2011 (SummerSlam and Rumble) did worse than the last two years which show the bump was pretty much caused by Rock.

The HHH wanted long NWA epics for the 2003 run has been seen as a myth to me based on watching the 2003 PPV matches in order the past couple of months. They are still super shitty, just not in an NWA way but more a sneaky heel that will get beat up for 90% of the match and bleed but show how resourceful he is kind of way. We have seen a history of WWF/WWE gaffing on not pulling the trigger at SummerSlam. Angle probably should have beat Austin at 2001 as his win at Unforgiven felt more hollow. The face turn of Orton flopped terribly after 04 and they changed course. The Goldberg example is probably the worst offense of this as the Phoenix crowd was clamoring for him to destroy HHH in the Chamber. HHH cowered in fear and then got a lucky shot to retain to the dismay of everyone. The Unforgiven crowd was terrible and the match was also with neither guy having any focus. I have seen Goldberg have exciting matches in 1998 and have sub 12 minute main events that feel exciting and explosive. The match at Unforgiven was no where close to the Nash or DDP matches from late 1998.

I know they had other matches Oj but those feel more like add ons and addendum. I sure they would have continued to feud but I'm not going to mark against a feud because the outside elements happening (Tenryu leaving) enriched it. Misawa vs Kawada is a great feud and I feel like one of the biggest fans of the 5/1/98 match but there is a sense of " these guys again" when they enter the ring. Jumbo and tenryu didn't have the chance for that feeling to resonate.

That is commitment Matt, but she was probably starting to notice your love affair with bock anyway.

Actually, I am the opposite. My wife not being a wrestling fan the two most prominent times of my dating life (November 2005-started dating and Fall 2008 - got married) are pretty big blind spots for almost everything. Now on the contrary, since having my son, I have greatly enjoyed a lot of the wrestling I have watched but feel more disconnected with the current product since the previous two periods I mentioned. Moral of the story is that maybe I am an enigma but the correlation doesn't exist for me.

Running thoughts while listening: 1. Who is Adam and who is Brian? Sorry I like putting a name to a handle 2. I would maybe time stamp the MMA up or just put it either on the very front or back end of the show for people that don't have much interest in that. 3. Enjoyed the Survivor Series preview, you guys gave your thoughts on each match in a timely manner and brought up some good points with drawing it out. 4. If Not _____, Then who is a good option for content. I always enjoy hearing old school theories in audio format and I thought the choices were sensible if a little conventional (Shawn and Bulldog for example). Mabel being picked seemed strange on the surface. I need more backstory on the love affair with Mabel. 5. TNA impact unfortunately was kind of a victim of time between recording and release but the general spiel of the company was good. 6. The upcoming themed shows sound good. Good effort boys and this is being added to the rotation. Length was good too.

Been rewatching this as well Elliot to finally kick my ass in gear and fill out a ballot. This is the third time I have watched to disc 3 and every time, I come away around the Lizmark match by audibly declaring that Satanico is fucking great. That Gran Cochisse match just gets richer and richer every time. The Santo mask ripping match also gets raised every time I watch it. This set really is great stuff and I am committed to finishing it before the end of the year.

Non-wrestler is tough for me to see many candidates get in based on the "five vote" only rule and that most of them have a fairly good argument for themselves minus Matysik.

Yeah, it is a perception of Memphis of being all angles, characters, schtick and stalling. It is also perceived as very regional and "southern" rooted.

Thanks Chad, I think it was one of the strongest episodes in a long time. Here is a question for everyone, is there any other variations on another group or other variations you would like to hear? I thought a Generations Horseman (Peak guy from 70,80,90,00) would be fun. For the 70's, I have: 70: Buddy Rose (workhorse, cocky heel) 80: Ric Flair (ACE) 90: Brian Pillman ( Shit stir-er) 00: Chris Hero (Barry WIndham Role, tag with Pillman) Weakness here is no Enforcer type role but I think the interplay in promos between the first three could overcome that.

On this special PTBN Survivor Series Rewind edition of The Brad and Chad Show, Brad convenes with Justin Rozzero and Ben Morse to rank the 27 Survivor Series shows. Where do your favorites stack up? Is there a clear #1? Tune in to find out! http://placetobenation.com/brad-and-chads-survivor-series-rewind-special-ranking-the-survivor-series-shows/

Latest edition was one of my favorite PWSS and the 1:45 just blew by. I thought Will's point about modern 4 Horseman and not really knowing wrestler's today true personality was astute. Ziggler seems a lot more genuinely like a good guy than any of the Golden Age Horseman outside of the ring.

smoky mountain??? i *think* that was when he had the mini-feud with bob armstrong... It was but that still feels very temporary and bit player. It is a minor point but sometimes these arbitrary years and Dave's thinking drives me a little crazy.

AJ Styles has been in great matches this year. He was not a good draw in New Japan. He did draw some on the indies but that shouldn't be close to HOF level. The Murdoch 2024 is perplexing to me. I could see an argument for 2021 with the Hardliners stuff but where the fuck was he a major player in 1994 wrestling?

My favorite installment yet guys. A lot of impassioned arguments.

Nice List Zenjo and will certainly be watching a lot of the joshi here. Probably most surprised by the Saturn vs. Goldberg result actually as I liked it for what it was but thought Saturn tried way too much stuff for my tastes. I can see that being rewarded though.

Cheers Zenjo and I am surprised at the 7 out of 10 thing as well. I enjoyed watching WWF's plight as I thought their angles and overall presentation of the main event stuff was top notch for the entire year until December. It was fun to track that. WCW made me sad to watch because in some ways they had the most emotionally jarring moments of the year with Flair and GOldberg winning the title but they also had some straight shit with Warrior and most Wolfpac stuff. All Japan was a pleasant surprise as 1997 felt like them on the downside and I thought the big matches kicked ass for the year and they sprinkled in some abnormal stuff like AKiyama vs. Ogawa. Rings and Battlarts was of course a lot of fun. I probably least enjoyed ECW as I couldn't get into the angles and only 2-3 of the matches really connected with me of the footage I watched.

I thought about this for a while and I think one of the things that can detract a great feud ever so slightly is not having the climax be at a satisfying point in time. Misawa vs. Kobashi and Misawa vs. Kawada have this problem IMO. That is why Jumbo vs. Tenryu is my pick. It would have been very easy for 10/88 to be the time for Jumbo to drop the fall to Tenryu but they pushed one more time and made 6/5/89 that much more beautiful. That is why it is my pick.

From time to time, PWO gets accused of having one mind and one opinion in regards to certain wrestlers/styles/matches that are our favorites. I find this to be fairly astounding given the diverse opinion of the group of people I interact with about wrestling on a daily basis. Here was a quick listing that I thought of off the top of my head with prominent posters/mods here on things we disagree on: 1. I had the 8/24/94 Kansai/Hotta vs. Hokuto/Kong match as my #2 MOTY and *****, Loss didn't rank this on first watch at even ***. 2. Loss is generally a big fan of Hayabusa, I am not a fan and Childs especially isn't. 3. I rated Rage in a Cage from 1997 as *****, Childs hated the match. 4. Goodhelmet sees Murdoch as a top 30 worker of all time, he will have to fight to make my bottom 25. 5. I disagree with a lot of what MattD says/views wrestling. 12/25/86 Rockers vs. Somers/Rose. 6. Me and Parv have had our share of disagreements on matches, the current product, etc. 7. Grimmas and Will can dig the fuck out of minis, take them or leave them with me for the most part. 8. I praised a Nikita vs. Sting match on WTBBP, Shoe went the other way as did Parv. 9. Dylan digs ECW, I have been left cold by almost everything dealing with it. 10. Dylan highly praised Curt Hennig heel stuff on the AWA set, me and Parv thought it was middling. This is ten examples but it shows that this happens between moderators and people that share podcast hosting duties. I don't need to get into the arguments between Joe/Dylan and JDW/Parv that have occurred. All of the above examples are people I readily consider to be "friends" with. Certainly when building a leadership team for a website/podcast/etc, you tend to view people who are fundamentally like you from time to time, but true success usually comes from diversity, springboarding off of that facet, I know for a fact through personal facts, that the entity of PWO is a lot different outside of wrestling too religiously/politically/etc. Does this mean that Lawler may be considered the #1 wrestler of all time here and no where else? Sure, but don't take that to mean that everyone agrees with Will stating that and in fact podcasts have been conducted of counterarguments to that claim. We will agree on some and disagree on others but the strive of PWO is to bring intelligent, focused wrestling discussion. I don't want to stray off of that initiative. My plea is that we don't think of PWO as one thought but a community of minds discussing a hobby we all enjoy.

Another year in the books. This year transcended some pretty big moments in my real life in becomming a father and this was one of the more nostalgic years I have went through as I was completely locked in with both of the big two around this point. I don't think the consistent match quality is here as in other years in the decade, and each promotion has times where it dips overall but this was still an enjoyable time trekking through the year. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 10/31/98) (*****) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 6/27/98) (*****) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 6/12/98) (*****) Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW 7/24/98) (****3/4) El Hijo del Santo vs. Felino (CMLL 10/18/98) (****3/4) Koji Kanemoto vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. (NJPW 6/3/98) (****3/4) Genichiro Tenryu vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW G-1 Climax 8/1/98) (****1/2) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Yoshihisa Yammamoto (RINGS 9/21/98) (****1/2) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Mikhail Ilioukhine (RINGS 1/21/98) (****1/2) Steve Austin vs. Dude Love (Over the Edge 5/31/98) (****1/2) Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs. Stan Hansen & Vader (AJPW 12/5/98) (****1/2) Atlantis, Mr. Niebla & Negro Casas vs. El Hijo del Santo, Black Warrior & Blue Panther (CMLL 4/24/98) (****1/2) HHH vs. The Rock (Ladder Match) (Summerslam 8/30/98) (****1/2) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 5/1/98) (****1/2) Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Chris Jericho & Eddy Guerrero (Brian Hildebrand Tribute 11/29/98) (****1/4) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW 4/18/98) (****1/4) Olimpico vs. Halcon Negro (CMLL 10/23/98) (****1/4) Yuki Ishikawa vs. Carl Greco (BattlARTS 4/24/98) (****1/4) Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue (AJPW 9/11/98) (****1/4) Reiko Amano & Chikayo Nagashima vs. Toshie Uematsu & Sonoko Kato (Oz Academy 6/21/98) (****1/4) Aja Kong & Mayumi Ozaki vs. Toshiyo Yamada & Meiko Satomura (GAEA 12/27/98) (****1/4) Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW 4/11/98) (****1/4) Serial Thrillaz vs. Death and Destruction (OMEGA 5/8/98) (****1/4) Genichiro Tenryu vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW 8/8/98) (****1/4) Hayabusa vs. Mr. Gannosuke (FMW 4/30/98) (****1/4) Yuki Ishikawa vs. Daisuke Ikeda (BattlARTS 5/27/98) (****1/4) Manami Toyota vs. Shinobu Kandori (AJW 8/23/98) (****1/4) Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (AJPW 6/5/98) (****1/4) Akira Maeda vs. Yoshihisa Yammamoto (RINGS 7/20/98) (****1/4) Ric Flair vs. Bret Hart (Souled Out 1/24/98) (****1/4) Sandman vs. .Sabu (Stairway to Hell) (House Party 1/10/98) (****1/4) Hayabusa, Daisuke Ikeda, Hisakatsu Oya & Ricky Fuji vs. Kodo Fuyuki, Koji Nakagawa, Kintaro Kanemura & Gedo (FMW 6/19/98) (****1/4) Jun Akiyama vs. Yoshinari Ogawa (AJPW 9/11/98) (****) Hayabusa vs. Kodo Fuyuki (FMW 11/20/98) (****) Chris Benoit vs. Booker T (GAB 6/14/98) (****) Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Ohtani (NJPW 1/4/98) (****) Masato Tanaka vs. Mr. Gannosuke (FMW 1/6/98) (****) Billy Kidman vs Juventud Guerrera (WCW Monday Nitro 11/16/98) (****) Shadow WX vs. Tomoaki Honma (Barbed Wire Baseball Bat and Barbed Wire Board Match) (BJPW King of the Death Matches 7/26/98) (****) Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (NJPW G-1 Climax 8/2/98) (****) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 3/29/98) (****) Super Delphin & Gran Naniwa vs. Naohiro Hoshikawa & Masato Yakushiji (M-Pro 11/8/98) (****) El Hijo del Santo, Felino & Negro Casas vs. Silver King, Villano IV & V (CMLL 12/18/98) (****) Booker T vs. Fit Finlay (GAB 6/14/98) (****) Jushin Liger, El Samurai, Kendo Ka Shin, Dr. Wagner Jr. & Hayato Nanjyo vs. Shinjiro Ohtani, Koji Kanemoto, Tatsuhito Takaiwa, Kaz Hayashi & Masakazu Fukuda (Elimination Match) (NJPW 6/5/98) (****) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW 1/26/98) (****) Hayabusa & Masato Tanaka vs. W*ING Kanemura & Kodo Fuyuki (FMW 5/27/98) (****) Chris Benoit vs. Raven (Souled Out 1/24/98) (****) Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (AJPW 10/11/98) (****) Yuki Ishikawa vs. Alexander Otsuka (BattlARTS 8/29/98) (****) Diamond Dallas Page vs. Chris Benoit (SuperBrawl 2/22/98) (****) Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart (Lion’s Den Match) (Summerslam 8/30/98) (****) Tracy Smothers & Little Guido vs Chris Candido & Lance Storm (ECW 03/06/98) (****) The Undertaker vs. Mankind (Hell In A Cell) (KOTR 6/28/98) (****) Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama (AJPW 3/26/98) (***3/4) Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda vs. Meiko Satomura & Sonoko Kato (GAEA 1/15/98) (***3/4) Mitsuharu Misawa, Jun Akiyama & Satoru Asako vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Yoshinari Ogawa & Takao Omori (AJPW 8/23/98) (***3/4) Olimpico vs. Halcon Negro (CMLL 10/30/98) (***3/4) Yuki Ishikawa & Alexander Otsuka vs. Daisuke Ikeda & Carl Greco (BattlARTS 4/19/98) (***3/4) Genichiro Tenryu vs. Keiji Muto (NJPW G-1 Climax 7/31/98) (***3/4) Billy Kidman vs. Rey Misterio Jr vs. Juventud Guerrera (Starrcade 12/27/98) (***3/4) Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 7/15/98) (***3/4) Mr. Gannosuke vs. Jinsei Shinzaki (FMW 4/21/98) (***3/4) Diamond Dallas Page vs. Goldberg (Havoc 10/25/98) (***1/2) Eddie Guerrero vs. Billy Kidman (Starrcade 12/27/98) (***1/2) Meiko Satomura vs. Sonoko Kato (GAEA 8/23/98) (***1/2) Yuki Ishikawa vs. Alexander Otsuka (BattlARTS 1/20/98) (***1/2) Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Casket Match) (Rumble 1/18/98) (***1/2) RVD vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (ECW 4/4/98) (***1/2) Aja Kong vs. Mariko Yoshida (ARSION 6/21/98) (***1/2) Eddy Guerrero vs Rey Misterio Jr. (WCW Monday Nitro 12/21/98) ***1/2 Yumi Fukawa vs. Candy Okutsu (ARSION 2/18/98) (***1/2) Christopher Haseman vs. Wataru Sakata (RINGS 9/21/98) (***1/2) Steve Austin vs. Dude Love (Unforgiven 4/26/98) (***1/2) Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock (Dungeon Match) (Fully Loaded 7/26/98) (***1/2) Sting vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Nitro 3/23/98) (***1/2) Eddy Guerrero & Juventud Guerrera vs. Rey Misterio Jr & Billy Kidman (Nitro 12/28/98) (***1/2) Yuki Ishikawa vs Katsumi Usuda (BattlARTS 03/06/98) (***1/2) Mariko Yoshida vs. Candy Okutsu (ARSION 12/18/98) (***1/2) Mens Teoh vs. Shoichi Funaki (M-Pro 1/14/98) (***1/2) Billy Kidman vs. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 9/14/98) (***1/2) Hardy Boyz vs. Serial Thrillaz (OMEGA 12/4/98) (***1/2) Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka (Heat Wave 8/2/98) (***1/2) Booker T vs. Chris Benoit (Thunder 5/27/98) (***1/2) Goldberg vs. Raven (Nitro 4/20/98) (*** ½) Terry Funk vs. Mick Foley (Falls Count Anywhere) (RAW 5/4/98) (***1/2) Chris Benoit vs. Fit Finlay (Slamboree 5/17/98) (***1/2) Genichiro Tenryu & Shiro Koshinaka vs. Masa Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJPW 6/5/98) (***1/2) Goldberg vs. Sting (Nitro 9/14/98) (***1/2) Rey vs. Juventud (Thunder 11/12/98) (***1/2) Hayabusa vs. The Gladiator (FMW 3/17/98) (***1/2) Hardy Boyz vs. Venom & Shane Helms (OMEGA 7/24/98) (***1/2) Rey Misterio Jr vs. Billy Kidman (Nitro 11/23/98) (***1/2) Hayabusa vs. Hisakatsu Oya (FMW 12/13/98) (***1/2) Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin (Mania 3/29/98) (***1/4) Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley, New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega (No Way Out 2/15/98) (***1/4) X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett (Hair vs. Hair) (SummerSlam 8/30/98) (***1/4) Shiro Koshinaka vs. Masa Chono (NJPW G-1 Climax 8/1/98) (***1/4) Cruiserweight Battle Royal / Chris Jericho vs. Dean Malenko (Slamboree 5/17/98) (***) (PERSONAL PICK) Ric Flair vs. Eric Bischoff (Nitro 12/28/98) (**) (PERSONAL PICK)