soup23

Categories are way to wide and force unnatural comparisons. This along with the age of inductees and voting requirements are my biggest complaints with the process. I am not entirely comfortable comparing the Sharpe Brothers to Tanahashi as candidates ( I have argued before that match quality and structure can be compared) but when they are in the same category and you are a voter in said category, then you are forced to do so given your limit of 10 votes for wrestlers.

That is indeed my opinion, and that is indeed subjective. What is NOT subjective, is the idea that Rose (who I am only using as the example because that was one of the the examples presented here by KrisZ and it was backed up by others) would be a "first ballot" guy if judged on workrate alone. That statement is just flat out false. Because there have been people who have gotten in largely on workrate alone, and Rose not only did not make it when he was on the ballot, but if fact garnered such little support that he was booted from the ballot altogether. We'll know later today, but my assertion is that the voters at large are more open to Tanahashi's work in terms of being HOF caliber than somebody like Rose. That is not opinion. That is fact. Can't be argued. Because Rose had his shot, and didn't come close. In the eyes of the voters, he is not some legendary worker. Nothing subjective about that. He just isn't. The results speak for themselves. And Tanahashi is likely either getting in, or coming close. This despite not having any sort of slam dunk drawing record in the eyes of most, and generally being considered a workrate candidate. Saying Rose or Regal or Dundee would be first ballot guys based on workrate is not understanding the voting patterns and the types of workers the voters tend to prefer when work is the primary strength of the candidate. I couldn't have been more clear that my personal opinions of those guys are irrelevant. One I like, one I REALLY like, and one I don't care for at all. None of that matters in relation to the point i've been trying to make. And of course there is some opinionated stuff in that rant, because, well, it's my show and i'm giving my opinion. If the above wasn't clear, sorry. I thought I pounded that home when I listened back, but maybe not. You didn't clarify this well enough. I agree with your above crux and think its one of the better talking points you have raised. Rose was on the ballot and dropped after one year. Done deal. Now, questions can be raised on who voted for him and I do think there is some flawed selection in HOF voters and how they can be arbitrarily selected by Dave. In addition, I do think there is some voters who give little to no thought on who they vote for. This is natural of any HOF though, and I don't think there is realistically a perfect system as of yet to remedy this problem. I think you are getting too hung up on the Rose, Dundee talking point without acknowledging the "Tanahashi is the best big match worker" one. In the podcast you state that you hate Dundee and would rather have your face lit on fire than watch one of his matches. I could make that same claim about Tanahashi and since you didn't offer any analysis on the reason you dislike Dundee, we are in the same boat. Thinking Tanahashi is the best big match worker in the world and is a top 5 all timer in that regard is one thing, but both Rich and yourself dismissed the notion initially that any other person could be compared to him. You flat out said that was wrong before we had some backpeddling with discussion on Daniel Bryan and the subjective argument. I think the Rose/Dundee point has been somewhat validated but sometimes in arguments you have to decide whether intangible statements can have a counterpoint. I think a comparison of Tanahashi's two year run in direct competition with other big match workers from which you have watched a vast arrangement of would be fascinating and not nearly as dismissed as you allude to it being.

Gave this a little more thought and came to an answer: Roderick Strong. This person came on board with a bunch of backbreaker variations in 2004 and in the 9 years since has done......? to alienate from that. No variation of evolving of his style, just rinse and repeat. I can almost call all of his spots in the rare match of his I watch.

Running thoughts on listening to the podcast: You discuss comparing guys on different eras and how that is not fair. The WON HOF ballot is forced in a way to make you do this. Pedro Morales is in the same category as AJ Styles. Tanahashi is in the same category as the Sharpe brothers. They are in direct competition with each other to become a Hall of Famer and as a result must be compared. When conducting your ballot, what made you chose Tanahashi over the Sharpes? Is there any evidence that Tanahashi made Okada besides Okada having a good draw against Ibushi when he had matches previously vs. Tanahashi in an even series? Just want a firm basis on that. There IS a debate that he is not the best big match worker in the world. Wrestling match quality is subjective. You cant have it both ways and say we worship at the alter of El Dandy, Buddy Rose, etc and then accept no possible explanation of another answer. Just as I type that you admit that it is all subjective so what are you arguing exactly. I hate the argument that there is a board collusion bias against Tanahashi. Problems with his offense and overall wrestling style have quite frankly been broken down better analytically here than Alan throwing around a lot of snowflakes on his forum on the F4W board. The Okada vs. Ibushi match was a match I had problems with Ibushi's selling in but I still thought was good overall. Two other posters (Dylan and Tim) didn't like it is as much because they couldn't get past the spotty selling. That is not a bias against a style, that is simply a difference in valuation of certain facets of a wrestling match within it. I think people not calling the Tanahashi matches terrible for the most part is more encouragement that we don't either have a collective groupthink or bias against someone or a style than a detriment against PWO collectively. This has historically been a forum where people wont turn a blind eye to someone/something and say it sucks without any reason or to be a outlier. Will listen to more later. I do appreciate your contributions here and elsewhere and you have made some points that I agree with. If I was a HOF voter, I wouldn't vote for Tanahashi now but I do think he has benefited business in Japan from the doldrums of the mid 2000's.

In thinking about this original topic, I came to the conclusion that I don't find that many wrestlers boring per say. There are plenty that I don't think were good workers for extended periods of time (IRS, Kimala, Inoki) but they could from time to time step up and have some great performances.

Larry Z is great in the Regal series. My personal favorite match of theirs is the 5/28/94 WCW SN match. An underrated gem of Zbysko match along with the sprint with Bock is another sprint he had vs. Sting in March of 1991.

Did we get a definitive answer to why all the big talent left in the latter part of 1980. I am interested to watch these tags because it seems like miracle work from Buddy at how sucessful they are given who is in the match.

Today's Daily Update! Episode 266 of the Place to Be Podcast has Scott and Justin talking No Way Out 2001! http://placetobenation.com/place-to-be-pod...o-way-out-2001/ Chad Campbell pre-viewed No Way Out 2001 with the surprising women's match! http://placetobenation.com/vintage-vault-p...o-way-out-2001/ Scott's Raw Recap talks Big Show's rehiring and a bond to stop the Wyatt Family! http://placetobenation.com/scotts-raw-recap-11413/ Episode #10 of the Titans of Wrestling talks February-March of 1980 in the WWF! http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrest...-to-march-1980/ Scott and Justin's newest Vintage Vault takes us to San Diego for One Night Stand 2008! http://placetobenation.com/vintage-vault-w...ght-stand-2008/ TJ McAloon's Sports Half Hour is a sit-down with Scott Keith! http://placetobenation.com/t-j-mcaloon-and...-w-scott-keith/

I enjoy every guest except the one lined up for havoc

Our hope is around one a week, we will see how long it lasts

Furnas run here feels pretty perplexing overall. He was 31 years old and had been in the business for around 4 years so it is not like he was some green rookie. I would be interested if there is any good Furnas singles matches from Continental or anywhere else previous to this run. I haven't seen the footage so I don't know but the his run in WCW really ended abruptly.

Yeah the Torch said G HW Bush was a big fan overall and specifically for Flair.

FBI was great here. I do think this was cool with the similar focus of this event. I also enjoyed Louie Spicolli throwing up the NWO symbol.

Feels really dated going back to USWA but Dutch and Jerry do their best to keep this heated even though its a rehash for the 25 time of this feud. Dutch has always been a great master storyteller.

I thought Kanemoto was pretty disappointing here. Taikawa was really good at stringing together big spots and he always has my favorite DVD but Kanemoto just seemed to want to do his own thing and not really feed the story of the match. I may be alone but I think I prefer the Otani vs. Tajiri match but both of these matches are good fun.

I liked this a lot. Otani showed some stiffness and Tajiri stayed there with him and was able to pick up the big upset. This went the right amount of time for the story they were trying to tell.

Pretty subdued episode of Nitro with a lot of focus put on Flair. Not terrible stuff here but nothing earth shattering either.

This could have been a really good feud if fleshed out. Waltman still was in good form here and Flair has been punchy to me. I liked this pull apart and it helps that it happened in North Carolina with Flair getting teh great reaction.

The narrative of unwilling tag partners still feels really fresh here. I love the animosity between Austin and Pillman. Great edition of raw.

We finally are starting to get the hints for Kane. Still am surprised they had a world title match with Faroqq.

I was surprised by how good the back and forth was before we get the infamous Sunny Days line. Shawn especially bringing up past history like WM 12 was very smart given what Bret is proposing.

Good clean wholesome fun between Sunny and Cornette.

Superkick looked really good and Bret took it like a pro. The visual of Davey power lifting Shawn up also was extremely effective and we get a sort of save by Austin. Really loving all of this interaction on this show.

Tiger Woods namedropped was weird. Didn't realize the ECW stuff was still going on this late with a RVD tie in.

I like these better than the Gold Dust ones because it feels more organic humanizing Foley and I get his plight into becoming Mankind more. Ready to see this whole series play out and Mick get elevated.