El-P

Well, it was quite the ok little match indeed. 3 falls in 12 minutes definitely strikes me as rushed though, but they did a pretty good job with it. Swole seems to have improved a bit (I mean, she could not get much worse) and Diamanté is pretty decent as usual. But honestly when I see those two, I just think it's too bad Ivelisse and Shanna got attitude issues, because they were so much better pro-wrestlers and it was a blast to watch them. Damn those cursed workers !

Credit Raven for that. For sure. His ups and downs only makes him even more fascinating. I mean, although I watched his WCW stuff much later after the fact, I remember him popping up on WWF Superstars in 1990, so I've been watching him (on/off) for those 31 years. I remember figuring out by myself that Goldust was that Dustin Rhodes fella from years ago (I had not watched WCW at that point and I had no inside knowledge at all, I got on the Internet in 97) and I was kinda proud of myself for being so pro-wrestling smart ! (I also figured out quickly that Savio Vega was Kwang and Abe Knuckelball Schwartz was the Brooklyn Brawler and Who was Jim Neidhart, but these were rather obvious... fun times)

I can understand this argument, but then again, it's not one I really care about. If you had 62 matches in which you displayed fucking genius ability at what you do, you're a GOAT contender. That doesn't mean I have to agree. Versatility can be an element of greatness, but it doesn't *have to be* to me. One reason I believe Kenny Omega is of the the GOATs is actually his ability to have the greatest matches with *everyone and everybody* in any kind of style he tries. One reason I believe Volk Han and Tamura are some of the GOATs are their absolute genius at shoot-style pro-wrestling. There's no preconceived, mandatory element to greatness, especially when workers don't exist in a vacuum but in very specific contexts which allows or not to display such and such qualities (not to mention stuff like booking which influence what they will be allowed to display or not). I thought pushing the logic of what defines pro-wrestling or not was kinda funny actually. Well it was, especially considering the linguistic quirks of WWE which actually kinda define what they want to be perceived as, and even more in the lights of that CM Punk promo. But really, it all comes down to you not considering shoot-style as pro-wrestling. So it doesn't matter and you can't make it an argument for or against his work. I ignored it because it's a flawed argument. I actually replied to it in my first version of the post but then deleted it because I'm lazy and maybe I felt it was a bit aggressive (I'd rather make jokes and stay light-hearted). So here's what I wanted to reply to the bolded part : Who are "we" and what is "what we know and love and call pro-wrestling" ? In the name of whom are you talking exactly ? I've been a fan of pro-wrestling for 30 years. I've seen my first straight shoot-style stuff about 10 years in. It caught pretty much immediately for me and I became a fan of that style in a flash. Meanwhile, it took me forever to get hooked to lucha-libre and to catch up with whatever contemporary style that evolved from the US indies and 00's japanese stuff. So, first off I'm not included in that "we". Second, it's very much a UScentric point of view, I'm sorry to say. Japanese shoot-style is not that far off the old classic world of sport UK style in spirit and form. And if you're a Japanese salaryman brought up with Inoki or even with the 80's generation of NJ, the UWF pretty much looked and was sold as the purest form of pro-wrestling that was, and RINGS was just an extension of this. Shoot-style was much more "real pro-wrestling" than the goofy ass shit americans were watching on TV (funny thing, that's how the UWF-I was sold on the Bushido programs too for english-speaking audiences). So, that first statement holds no water whatsoever and only displays ignorance for a different kind of pro-wrestling culture, really. It's only foreign and removed from your own perspective. There you go. I did not make any "imaginary, false" starting point for myself. I totally accept the "shoot-style isn't for me" point of view, I totally get it. But "shoot-style isn't pro-wrestling" is factually false, and saying Volk Han or Tamura can't be considered pro-westlers because they only worked that style just doesn't make any sense to me. Yes it is. No offense taken, I never make or take things personal (unless I'm trolled by assholes of course) Well, I never took a punch in the face either so...

I would LOVE Dustin to show up in IMPACT. Hell, Dustin could have an IMPACT title reign, the matches and promos interacting with the roster there would be gold. Fuck, now I want this and I'm probably not gonna get it !

I noticed Abadon too getting in shape and better. I'll check out those two matches, as I really don't watch either Dark unless there's something I really want to watch.

The plan is to tape Dark (not Elevation) in studios soon to get that old WCW feel too. I've heard good things about Swole vs Diamante, which is surprising to me because Diamanté is not exactly a world beater and Swole really wasn't any good at all when she was pushed on Dynamite the first year. Maybe she has finally improved.

That's a pretty damn good point. Visibility and cultural relevancy surely plays a part. The Black Thought period was as bad as anything you'll come across, but since it was TNA not only it means it was kinda under the radar but also people would be tempted to put it on the company (which at the same time had some of the greatest workers in the world having some of the best matches of the era).

With the talk about "revisionist history" on Jericho's career the other day, I was thinking about Dustin and although I'm a big Dustin fan and pretty much always have been (was a huge Goldust fan), there's really a huge rose-colored glass/confirmation bias effect going on with him. He was quickly great in the early 90's in WCW. Then at some point during the Goldust era he became worse... to the point of getting actually pretty bad (including his last WCW stint)... then he got good again teaming with Booker T, then he had the godawful Black Reign stint in TNA, then really wasn't around much until he was teaming with his brother in WWE in the mid 10's, which is when he began to get good then really good again, basically getting great to the point of having a classic match at 50 years old. So it's really an up and down career, with highs that go pretty damn high and lows that go pretty damn low. The idea that Dustin has been that great worker for 30 years is really not true at all and I'm sure he would be the first to admit that. Great first years, great last years, some good/very good stuff in between but also a lot of really bad periods.

You did not make any argument either. You're take is that shoot-style is not pro-wrestling. From there, there is nowhere to go and nothing to argue. Who said you had to be versatile to be great ? Again, prescriptive argument which holds no water in actual reality. Put Bret Hart in a lucha libre ring or a shoot-style ring and he'll suck at it. There's nothing wrong in being a specialist. He had a decade of being arguably a top 5 worker in his style. Well, that's something you can argue in term of execution, for sure, if that's your take on it, fair enough. Then again, your apparent complete inability or unwillingness to even consider shoot-style as pro-wresting kinda invalidates the entire point of judging something in a context and a landscape you don't seem to understand. Case in point : Wait, what ? Volk Han is not doing pro-wrestling ? He's not a pro-wrestler ? Says who ? Apparently WWE is not pro-wrestling either since the *word itself* is forbidden and they are "sports-entertainment" and not concurrent with pro-wrestling companies but Disney. Sport-entertainer John Cena should not be eligible, he's never worked in an actual pro-wrestling company. Fuck, even CM Punk said WWE is not pro-wrestling... If there's no face or heel as far as you can tell, well, that's a totally invalid argument because you can't criticize someone not doing something that doesn't apparently exist in said context. Wait, what ? Says who ? RINGS was a shoot-style pro-wrestling promotion. Saying it was not doesn't change the reality of what it was (and yes, they did MMA fights too and even became a full fledge MMA promotion after a while, but that was at the very end, and it's not a first in pro-wrestling history than a pro-wrestling promotion present some shoot-fights, hell, even WWF did it). Japanese pro-wrestling is loaded with guys and promotions (or stables) being presented as "shooters" put into a pro-wrestling context, and it's been especially prevalent with NJPW up until the early 00's for instance (basically the entire Inoki legend "fighting" against shooters, the feud with UWF, the Russian wrestlers, the judo guys, the feud with UWF-I etc...). Fuck, some people argued that Pride was pro-wrestling back in the days, which was pushing it to me, then again the promotion was built at first on Takada, and for sure some of his fights weren't actual fights. And yes, Andy Kaufman did pro-wrestling.

It has to be the worst take ever on shoot-style since Parv's stuff during GWE 2016. I mean, I've reach the point where I have zero time for any prescriptive approach of pro-wrestling anyway ("should be this, should do that, shouldn't do that" bullshit), but really now... FTR, I voted Tamura, but obviously both are out of this world awesome. (edit : fuck, I should have swept a "You and your odd tastes" ref in this post, it really was now or never)

I laughed.

I think I just wanted to profess my appreciation for the Good Brothers and how fascinating their story is. I mean, the whole Elite stuff comes from the Bullet Club, and it's kinda fun to have this link back to NJPW in the early/mid 10's. The only big time missing part would be AJ, and to a lesser extent (because he was never as big) Prince Devitt. That would be cool as hell too. But of course the Bucks/Omega/Cole managed by Callis would certainly be enough and great on its own. I sure hope we get that Young Bucks vs Good Brothers match eventually too. Having it in IMPACT would be even better.

First, the Good Brothers are good pro-wrestlers. I have no idea where the ridiculous idea that they suck comes from. Anyone paying any attention remotely can see they've been part of a ton of really good to legit great multi-men tag matches this year, with different kind of opponents, and always work well with everyone. Gallows has the best uppercuts this side of the Great Kabuki. Just watching him go up for a suplex shows how "light" he must be to work with too. He had a super fun big hoss match with Joe Doering on IMPACT. I had to put that out there because I'm so tired of reading bullshit about how they supposedly suck. They are not *great* workers, they are super solid workers who work well with everybody and that's a plus. And they serve their purpose as lower tier members of the group for beatdowns and getting thrown around while Omega is fleeing off. So there. And really it took a bit of time for them to win me over, as I was not familiar with either their NJ work when they showed up in IMPACT and I have not watched their WWE stuff either apart from the Taker match. Crazy story too how they re-signed with WWE instead of going to AEW as the Elite had hoped at first (along with AJ), then got fired and missed their shot with the company. Signing with IMPACT everybody was like LOLGoodBrothers, but from there through the forbidden door they still manage to get to AEW but at the time where things really heats up and in the end, they are part of the hottest angle and PPV of the last 25 years and are in the picture for the debut of Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson. I say well done Good Brothers ! Nakazawa is mostly a backstage guy and I agree he doesn't need the camera time at this point. Cutler has been awesome in this role, he's funny as hell. Keep him in the picture.

It's nothing new. Everybody knows that. She already would have been signed by this point by either company. Bullshit "news" sites with totally fake "exclusives". The greatest cursed talent of her generation really, she's an awesome pro-wrestler.

The answer is probably Dennis Rodman vs Randy Savage.

Not only that, but when it comes down to it, the company is called All Elite Wrestling. And the Elite was always Omega & the Bucks. Omega was the one guy Tony wanted to build his company around with Jericho (because of the Tokyo Dome match) and CM Punk. The vision of the company was always gonna be the one of the Elite, no matter how good Cody's stuff could be (3 vs 1). And it was really good at first *as long as the Elite did not push themselves at the top of the cards*. But Cody arguably peaked with the Dustin match, although he was essential getting over Darby and then Brodie Lee (both of which carried the TNT title, which he made important) and has been willingly killed to get over Malakai Black. But there has absolutely been a disconnect during the pandemic, while the Elite finally pushed themselves at the top of the card, finally, and that's when the company got more and more hype after a period of relative cool down. A lot of people apparently did not see it coming, but from watching them in NJPW, I had zero doubt once Omega & the Bucks would position themselves at the top, that's when shit was gonna really pick up, and it did (with the help of the forbidden door opening, which brought Callis into the fold, cool interpromotional matches on TV and other exciting things to look forward too). That's when Cody really went off into other ventures, and everyone here remember the hot debates about the Real TV show which does not fit the image of the promotion (why am I not surprised if the add has been booed by this crowd?) Honestly I do think that if all this leads to a Cody heel turn and we really get the evil douchebag Cody with bitchy Brandi at his side like in 2017 or so, it could be pretty awesome. But it could also lead to Cody just slowly vanishing out of the picture (especially if the other ventures end up successful), which would be a bittersweet conclusion to the story.

Most likely from Nick Khan: "Oh by the way, you're fired, but you keep you shares of course. So you'll be kinda like, our Dixie Carter." Life is strange, people.

OMG. Omega vs Ospreay of course. It has to happen. Wrestle Kingdom, the return of the Cleaner to the land that made him the GOAT. OF COURSE ! DO IT ! As far as Cody goes, he was too busy doing stuff like having a baby gender reveal, talking about how the USA are the greatest country in the world and shooting a reality TV show. No time to take part in the hottest thing in pro-wrestling in the last 25 years and the most compelling long term angle ever.

Also, roids are bad for the heart.

Yeah, no shit !

He's the look alike of French singer Pascal Obispo. That alone makes him a no-no.

I thought about the same thing ! It's like we need some sort of downer to be able to sleep again after All Out. Who betta than Corbin ?

Hager *is* part of AEW, so it's easy to gauge if whatever he did there was positive or negative. And really, from his history in the Inner Circle, although I'm not a Hager fan at all, I even tend to dislike him and wasn't happy about him getting signed, he was nothing but a positive element of the roster for the first year and a half. He has been part of major angles with the Inner Circle and was good in them, as he was good in the enforcer/bodyguard role. He was never part of something that sucked, unless you really want to bash that Wardlow MMA match (which wasn't any good as a match to me but was also a success in the ratings, so there). He was part of some of the most memorable matches in the promotion : Stadium Stampede, the Wargame stuff, and was pretty decent in those and certainly did not drag them down. He had some pretty funny vignettes with his wife leading to his match with Mox (which again was not that good to me, but it's not like it was deemed a miserable failure of anything). If you balance negative/positive when you look at Hager's career in AEW, it's obviously a positive one thus far. Now, we have established that a guy like Corbin would get go-away heat from the AEW audience, especially now. Would Hager get go-away heat if he was signed right now coming off let's say his latest MLW stint ? At best I believe it would be received by indifference. But the situation is, one has had a positive (if minor in the grand scheme of things) output in the company while the other one would probably be straight rejected. So there, it's easy to establish that Hager, signed when he was and booked the way he was, was a much better get than Baron Corbin would be if he jumped now.

No, not really (IMPACT is deeply rooted in indy wrestling and its TNA heritage, of course WWE firing shitloads of people makes it a good place for them to work now too), but whatever. The fact is Morrissey still sucks. He's been a total miss, he hasn't redeemed himself at all, he hasn't improved at all and he's a weekly lowlight of the show. Oh, you weren't talking about Cass ? And no, I'm not gonna watch WWE backstage stuff with Baron Corbin (which is pretty much an idea of pro-wrestling hell for me, and yes, I'm aware of his new character) when I have barely enough time to watch stuff I actually care for and enjoy without burning out.

Nope. His stint in TNA was like 15 years ago and if anything he was seen as an oversold upper-midcard WWE guy. He never got the great star reactions in AEW. The biggest one is when he won the IMPACT title on Dynamite, that was a legit big time pop, because Omega had not been beaten for ever. But despite that win (which was tainted because of the use of a chair, which was smart to protect Omega), it's obvious Cage was a "weak" main event (which actually was both smart and pretty cool, because they could allow themselves to book Christian in that spot considering what they had in their hands ie Danielson debuting, thus trying to establish him as a legit main eventer and also giving this guy a great main event he really never got in WWE). Rey Fénix & Jungle Boy got much bigger reactions wrestling against Omega on Dynamite earlier in the year.