El-P

Just like in the G1, Marufuji was God-like in this. I'm not a huge fan of Okada, although I concede he does deliver on big matches, but I have been a huge fan of old-ass Marufuji. His execution was at an all-time best, even with the infamous combo kicks. Great match. MOTYC without a doubt in my book.

Actually, the Great Kojika (I think, or maybe it was Kendo Nagasaki), destroying a small town market while beating on rookies on a special BJPW video tape may take the cake of fucking bizarre and awesome.

IWA Bathhouse Death matches. HeadHunters vs Tarzan Goto & Mr. Gannosuke. In a bathhouse. WIth nekkid women running scared. What else ?

Charles, basically Yoshida was doing her own thing and trained the rookies until the end. But the style of the promotion had basically reverted back as early as 2000. Yumi Fukawa having to retire in the summer of 2000 (I *think*) was the last nail in the coffin, as she was the one carrying the style with Yoshida. When Lioness Asuka came in to "save" the company, ARSION was a mess of styles. It was still fun, but the uniqueness of the first 18 months when they were trying to establish something new was lost. I never got to the point of AtoZ. Yumiko Hotta is one of my least favourite worker ever anywhere, so really I had no intention of watching her fucking up what was left of my former favourite promotion. Oddly enough, you can say the highest point of ARSION hype had nothing to do with Yoshida, as it was the infamous LCO vs HamaKINO bloodbath in late 99. Yep. Feels like in another life to be honest. I have never saw that one. Happened after I dropped off. But I've heard about it many times. I really should watch it eventually.

Well, if you look at the GWE results, I can concede that point to you. I was the one launching the infamous "mainstream US wrestling comeback" talking point. In a way, yes, maybe these are reactionnary times even for pro-wrestling criticism. As far as your first point go, it's interesting because it would mean WWE is considered high-brow in the realm of pro-wrestling in Mexico. ANd the idea that WWE is considered high-brow on any level is kinda… well. But the fact there would be two different social classes following the two different companies is quite intriguing, especially when the "high-brow" one would be the more americanized one while the "low-brow" would be the most traditonnal, truly Mexicon one. Rings a bell, doesn't it ? The anecdote about the Korean woman is classic. Racism. It's everywhere. The fact pro-wrestling never developped in Korea is interesting to me. Especially when a bunch of the guys who revolutionnized puroresu in the 80's were actually Korean. Now that K-pop is going for the Japanese market (right, Dan ?), you'd think maybe a version or puroresu could emerge in Korea and become a tool of "cultural" assault too.

Wrong. Places like TOA, Spider-Twist (yes, I said it), the old Smarckchoice had plenty good and constructive discussions and were great places to discover new things during the first half of the 00's. DVDVR was just one spot. And clearly not the best in term of content and attitude if you ask me. I know, I've been there. PWO has mostly been a great place for discussions, with people being overall a lot less excitable and way more open than before (ok, this thread not being a exemple of that). Peaking in the late 90's ? Nah. Peaking by the first GWE poll ? Maybe. But there have been some great stuff not too long ago. So.

One of my favourite company ever. I was a huge fan as it was happening, until about 2001 when Fukawa had to retire and Lioness came in. Fun to read about it today. I thought about revisiting it one day. ARSION was indeed extremely well versed into marketing the looks of its worker (well, when you have Fukawa and Chama (aka Ohmukai)), probably thanks to Rossy Ogawa, but it was also kinda revolutionnary with Yoshida's new style. It didn't last, as it reverted into a more plain joshi style after about 18 months, although with a lucha influence (thanks to the Apache, Ayako Hamada debuting). It was a super fun company, much better to me than the ever overrated GAEA.

In my arms ! (damn, one great thing of my 90's I had almost forgot about)

Of course there would, because plenty of people don't consider his 80's work as great as it's pimped to be. The fact he was a terrible wrestler in the 00's (yes, terrible) and gets a pass for it when other guys are being lambasted for their post-prime bad work doesn't help the perception either for those of us who don't consider Flair to be that absolute icon of great work. Like I said, I had it at #20 and I am an old Flair fan, but that doesn't mean I can't be objective...

Funny, it's a great point. And don't forget the great hair. Charlotte is everything HHH ever wanted to be, and more.

This explains that. Glad for them then.

No.

The Scott D'Amore booked era might already have begun for all I know, although Dusty's still on board. This episode of Impact, one of the last on Fox, was easily the best in a long while, maybe ever. It was capped off by a really good TV match between Abyss, whom the crowd want to cheer despite his alignement with Jarrett, and Chris Sabin, who is in the middle of a feud with Michael Shane/Matt Bentley (the name is changed on PPV at this time, oddly enough). Abyss proves again he is actually a good worker when he's given the right guy, and Sabin bumps like hell, making the mad trucker turned SM fetichist look like, well, a monster. Excellent, spectacular beatdown, with nicely timed and paced hope spots and comebacks. Abyss also has no issue bumping for Sabin's offense. Mea culpa maxima on Abyss, I was wrong about this guye. Sabin is also on point here, not doing anything stupid. It almost comes down to Sabin going for a win when Micheal Shane jumps in and screws him. Post-match has Abyss turning Jarrett's handshake into a Black Hole Slam, which had the crowd pop big time. Jarrett's maneurism leading to the spot were perfect. So there, an excellent segment overall. Maybe indicating of the best months of the company to come under D'Amore's booking ?

'member when American Alpha had MOTYC matches against the Revival ?

I had not seen this before. Chuckling irrepresibly !!

That six-person tag on E3 was a whole lot of ga-ga and fun. I forgot how awesome Fenix is. I know some people questionned the fact that Puma was leaving LU after S3, and how it was gonna affect the product, but the fact is Ricochet has never been the best worker or character on the show. Fenix was always ahead of him in every aspect. So, this was exactly what it needed to be, without enough bullshit to factor in Taya, who really grew on me with time. That vignette with Mascarita Sagrada visiting Son of Havoc was glorious in its ridiculousness. Lucha Underground has got that GTA San Andreas quality to it, in some ways. Which makes me think that the Mack is one of my favourite guy on the roster, has been for a while, and his match with Matanza was quite good for what it was. Matanza sells more than he used to, but you can't go not-selling everything like in the beginning for ever. The Dario Spin the Wheel warms the old WCW fan in me. Never really got into Texano (apart from the fact he looks exactly like his father), but I can take a best of 5 serie with Cage. Bomb throwing spotfests, why not. Good episode.

And what's bad about nearfalls (it was before it got ridiculous with the indie mentality mindlessly aping japanese wrestling), stiff work (like in Texas or Mid-South, those Japanese stronghold) and clean endings ? I mean, when I dove into puroresu in the late 90's, yeah, I was disgusted with mainstream US wrestling (mostly the work of Vince Russo ruining both the WWF and WCW for me), but what I got from japanese wrestling as a whole was a ton of variety. Yes, there was the stiffness and great AJ epics, but there were also the NJ juniors, the NJ heavies working a different style, the shoot-style, the lucharesu insanity, FMW and the garbage leagues, the entire joshi realm which itself had more variety and style you'd think (between a Toyota spotfest epic and an Ozaki bloodletting, or a Yoshida ARSION matwork clinic). There were different colors and shapes, many many different styles, from the most serious "pure sport bullshit" of shootsyle to the most absurd and ridiculous stuff (lucharesu comedy, FMW matches with people jumping in a pool) and everything in between. Talking about "puroresu" like it's one style is absurd. I guess it's kinda true with lucha libre too, although to a lesser extent (especially today, where it seems everything is getting mixed).

I was about to quit watching wrestling altogether. After 25 years. Seemed okay. Then again, I watched more current stuff than I ever did since the late 90's. WWE sucks ass as a TV product. But they do deliver some legit great matches regularly. Sasha vs Charlotte being the feud of the year. HITC was a legit MOTYC to me. Loved most of the NXT Takeover big matches too. Lucha Underground got me excited about following a current TV show. It's the kind of wrestling I want in 2016. Fuck tradition. I want ridiculousness to the infinite degree. That and a cool aesthetics. Speaking of which, that Total Deletion deal. Head scratching and completely awesome. Finally got to watch old TNA, as a way to cope with… suff. And don't regret it. In the mids of so much crap, there are some great stuff there. AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels are terrific workers. I'm having fun following Raven's last years. This is all new to me and feels fresh. Quickly browsing through the mud gets you some really nice surprises (Abyss as a terrific piece of luggage, AMW the hidden team of the 00's, Ultimate X actually being a terrific gimmick when used right). Watched some NJPW (vade retro satanas), especially the G1, which was kinda mind burning at point. But it made me a fan of Tetsuya Naito, who delivered a bunch of MOTYC and one of the very few ***** match I've ever seen, against Kenny Omega of all people (despite that fact, Omega can still be totally overworking when he's not with the right guy). Loved Marufuji and Tanahashi (bye-bye PWO cred, if I ever had any) and enjoyed a bunch of other people (like Ishii, who's much more than I thought he was). Didn't try my hand at lucha (although I thought about it honestly) or other japanese companies (no real urge) or US indies (no urge at all), but this year was clearly a Revival (pun intended) for me as far as really enjoying both current and new (as in, never seen before) stuff. So, I'd say 2016 was one of the most fun year I had as a pro-wrestling fan in a long, long time.

I'm an old Flair fan. I had him #20 on my GWE list. And I do agree with some if these points. The "wrong leg", yeah, that one is just unforgivable, honestly. Kayfabe-wise, Flair is kind of a dumb as fuck worker who only got by cheating. Un-kayfabe-wise, Flair is a goofy go-go-go worker who did lot of stuff who popped the crowds big time. I'd live happily not watching another Flair match ever at this point, but I have loved watching him for a long time. Beating on a dead horse though. Flair is Walking Dead case. Now : his daughter.

90's NJ heavies have been pimped for ever at this point. Then kinda forgotten about again, because the 80's got more in vogue. The idea that they were better than the AJ ones is… incongruous to say the least (and I'm a fan of 90's NJ heavies). But at this rate, what the hell. (damn, puro is taking over this thread. Poor lucha. Poor, poor lucha) (one should never write "puro" anyway. "lucha" is acceptable) ("puro-lucha" anyone ?)

Are you serious ? People were criticizing headdropping *as it was happening*.

Than they weren't active doesn't mean they weren't influenced though. This fact also explain results like Daniel Bryan getting so high BTW (if you look at the top votes for instance).

KC Timeline with Tully Blanchard is a winner. The fact Tully speaks like a Texas version of Sean Connery in "Indiana Jones and the Lost Crusade" maybe part of why it's so fun to listen to. The idea that old Tully is watching matches of himself on his Ipad in his bed and laughs his ass off at the fact he couldn't get Bob Armstrong out of his feet is pretty cool.

Who is the "typical hardcore fan" ? For year I had talked about trends (about Lawler for instance, but not only) only to be derided and even insulted at times, because there couldn't be any kind of influence and groupthink at play in the DVDVR projects (because all the people taking part in these were absolutely imune to any kind of influence whatsoever, they just watched the matches and all agreed (this always comes up when talked about some unseen "classic" BTW, the fact that "all the people who watched it agreed it was great", which is always suspect to me and plays a part into building a narrative that already goes beyond the simple match, which may or may not be great)), but these days it basically all comes down to "typical hardcore fans are Meltzer sheeps" when it comes to "bad opinions". So, there are trends and groupthink, but only on the "other side of the fence". Interesting. (I do agree about MPro though, I was thinking about that too. Much like my beloved ARSION had a clear lucha influence too, if only by Gran Apache and his daughters working over there regularly)

I admit, Fist of the North Star does sound homo-erotic. (Akira is the most overrated piece of anime I've seen BTW. I just wanted to point out that fact.)