Matt D

Still, the big difference here is that they were at least filmed, right? So long as that's the case there's a chance. If something simply wasn't filmed (like, I don't know, lots of 80s UWA, right?), then there's no hope.

So, because there were random VHS releases in the late 80s, I kind of have to wonder. Is there any chance that a lot of this footage exists in some TV studio closet somewhere or something? Or is it all just lost forever (or never taped in the first place).

Johnny "Details Don't Matter" Sorrow.

I'd like to see Dylan make the argument that Phil should go in before Sting.

Now I want to see some Tex McKenzie:

New and Trendy if it's 2005?

I would have totally put money on Nevermind the Ballast. That's a winning name right there.

With these things, in 2016, I like some sense of stakes. In 1988, there was a huge novelty to the Survivor Series due to the nature of WWF TV and feuds. Most TV matches were jobber matches. Most feuds lasted 6+ months and dominated house show schedules. Just seeing 8-10 wrestlers interact with one another was a huge novelty. That's not at all the case now. Raw vs Smackdown is only a novelty of a couple of months, tops. I would have liked some single-brand matches, I think, to further feuds without having to give away singles matches. If they're going to go brand vs brand, there should be some stake, even if it's stupid, like which brand gets the main event at Mania, or even which tag title is listed first on WWE.com. If this was 20 years ago, they could kayfabe make it so whichever brand won would get a monetary bonus in title matches for the next year or something, but obviously they won't do that.

Somehow I doubt that Foley would have gone back-and-forth with someone to so much detail if it wasn't about the women.

I'm still waiting for this to get all Videodrome. I still think there's a 25% chance of it.

After reading Chad's comments, I don't think JYD should get in because there is a level of historiography and self-awareness to the WON HOF and JYD is one of the most, if not the most, ridiculed people in the history of the publication. It's the WON HOF at the end of the day. He may deserve to get in but I don't think he should be in.

It is amazing that the PR crowd completely bought into genuine blowjob babyface R'n'R RPMs.

Two quick thoughts/questions. 1.) Does the storytelling exist in the text? To this, I say yes. Personally, as I watch things, I try to "find the narrative." That's how I watch wrestling (or devour any other sort of fiction). I try to keep track of how they got to this moment and anticipate where they may be going. If I am going to seriously write up a match, I will take notes. I'll keep track of what happens, what it leads to, where transitions are, how they're executed, hope spots and cut offs, the run to the finish, callback spots (including revenge spots), etc. Then I use those notes as a guide to compile and figure out the narrative. They are dots. You connect dots to make a picture, but you can only ever go off of the dots you see. If a line connects two dots that are too far away, it suggests weaker architecture in the match. 2.) Does Intent Matter? This, I think, is the bigger question here. For #1, either the dots exist or they don't exist (though how you draw the lines between them and how much you value the picture you get at the end, or even certain elements of the picture is subjective). The question then becomes: did the wrestlers intend for the dots to combine to allow for the lines that create the picture? I think the answer to this is a personal one and it matters far, far more in comparative listmaking like the GWE project than it does in enjoying and even in analyzing the match. For the former, you can (and must) find patterns between the match and other matches, storytelling over time and in many different situations, in order to corroborate to the best of our ability what may or may not have been intended. As for the analysis of a match and the story within, even in comparison to other matches, intent matters far less. This is a divide Loss and I have quite often, actually. Matches vs Wrestlers. Analyzing the knowable vs seeking the broader truth underneath it. Both approaches are valid but they have different aims.

Years ago now, I wrote up a lot of Demolition matches. I did this with Victor (Victator). I more or less stand by that project. It was a good experiment and helped change how I look at wrestling. Victor's written a pulpy pro wrestling novella/pastiche e-book set in the late 90s with lots of analogues. I do think some of the people who hang out in this specific armchair booking forum and that have time to read all of the fantasy promotion stuff might get a kick out of it. It scratches some of the same itches, especially for people who like the written dramatization of the matches and what not. He's asked me to post the link here as the e-book is free for the next day or two. So I'm doing so. If you're interested grab it in the next day or so for free. He's on twitter (https://twitter.com/DrVictator), sometimes explosively so, and I'm sure he'd appreciate feedback. https://www.amazon.com/Chairshot-Savage-Sports-Victor-Rodgers-ebook/dp/B01LYCH74A/

I really love Boesch in all of this, by the way. "Committee for Justice, Youngsters, and Decency." How great is that? He's a really wonderful storyteller. I'm not always 100% sure that the stories he's telling are the ones being played out in the ring, but they're always entertaining. He has a moral authority but it's not quite in the same way Lance Russell or Gordon Solie had. He's more Willy Wonka than Bill Watts, but with that same legitimacy of having been in the ring to ground things. He's more like Monsoon than anyone else, but more wry and less languid, with less of a need to chop down the wrestlers in the ring.

I made it through the first January 1981 show. My big take aways were that Valiant's chewing tobacco addiction was gross, that I really wanted to see a Paul Orndorff promo, and that Ron Bass just randomly hanging out in the last tag of the night was weird (even if he didn't eat the fall). They definitely made me want to see the 8-man Texas Death Match. Most remarkable was the Rose/Condrey vs Austin/Jackson tag, though. I love how they worked it with a bunch of hot tags but no sustained house afire comebacks until the very end. It turned the hot tags into hope spots which made the heels seem dominant, never giving up too much, while making the babyfaces look all the more worthwhile as opponents for them. Everyone came out looking better in the end, even more so than if Rose/Condrey just flat out squashed them.

Think the JYD/Bockwinkel match just up is the one from 6/11/82 and not from 83. That card.

I love Heenan during that Bret/Virgil match.

And who they might sacrifice to him to do so?

It's all about how they're worked, like any other hold. It's about how they're sold, the struggle put into them, how they're presented in a larger picture sort of way, and how they're used in a match. Everything is a tool. It's just how the tools are used. A nerve hold can be the most compelling thing in the world if the stars align and it's used properly. I do think that nerve holds are slightly harder to work than other things, though, because they limit facial expressions to a degree, sort of contain the body language of the person taking it, and don't generally allow for much motion in the person putting it on. If someone's constantly repositioning it and letting go and starting anew and grinding down that way, it tends to work better. Just having it on can be problematic.

The majority of the crowd was sure into that match, but I guess they've just got more imagination than you do?

Going to stick this here. It was surreal going to the NXT show. The Jose vs Drifter match was mainly Drifter working holds (including a chinlock), Jose getting the fans clapping, and Drifter cheating to cut off and going back to a hold. They were working them, fighting for them, fighting in them. The crowd, hot all night, was absolutely into it, with the cutoffs getting heat. When Jose finally came back, he got a big pop for it and for the win. The guy behind me was grumbling like crazy though: "Another rest hold! This match is nothing but rest holds!" You guys are the best.