Matt D

Depend what you call AGAINST. Mark Henry's praises have been ridiculous at times. I remember the infamous OH MY GOD THIS IS SUCH A GREAT MATCH on Raw a few years ago against CM Punk. I remember watching it. It was like a good little TV match in which Henry was *good*. But the idea that Mark Henry was all of a sudden a superworker, yes, is pretty overstated. I still have nightmares (well, not really) of his match with Taker at Mania a few years back. And like I've stated before, I liked Mark Henry back in 1998 when he joined the Nation, way before he got good. So, it's not like waited for he became the new darling of post-Benoit workrate guilt crowd to enjoy that big load. Like I said in the G1 thread, I've always loved big working guys and legit feat of strenght. So, always enjoyed Mark Henry. Dunno why this post was so long winded though. Ah, the Big Show ? Yeah. Awful for most of his career. Thank you for your anecdotal generalities that don't actually mention any aspect of his work.

As for Mark Henry, I'd love to see someone actually argue AGAINST him. No one does. People just pull out the contrarian card while his supporters show their work. I don't have the time for day for anyone that would do that.

The best darn 1979 promotion there is.

Nick vs Tito Good wrestlers can tell a story in the ring. Great wrestlers can craft great Thrillers, the equivalent of crime or spy novels, ones which repeat the same themes again and again, but make for an exciting ride even given that familiarity. Nick Bockwinkel crafts those Thrillers as well, but he crosses genres more deftly than almost any wrestler I've ever seen. He introduces, through build, payoff, and emotional reactions to everything that happens in the ring, elements of the human condition, of more traditional novels, into his wrestling. That was very much at play here. There were a few unique elements to the match's setting. For one, Bockwinkel was chasing. We don't have much footage of him chasing, especially not as a heel and especially not chasing someone other than Verne. Here he was chasing Santana's Gold Cup, won during Paul Boesch's 3 night 50th anniversary tournament, where Santana beat Bockwinkel. Houston used the introduction of artificial titles such as this and JYD's King of Wrestling crown in order to rationalize Bockwinkel losing without losing his World Title, often times to set up a title match where he would seem vulnerable, thus a.) making the fans think they might see a title change and be more apt to buy tickets and b.) making the homegrown stars seem all the more impressive for having a win, with real stakes, over the champ. This match, in particular, was a two out of three falls match, which was not something we saw often, if at all, with AWA Bockwinkel. Finally, he came in with something to prove, having already been defeated in a match that he very much wanted to win, and feeling that the honor of the Gold Cup, a true prize in wrestling, was wasted on Santana. He could claim his previous loss was due to the grueling nature of the tournament or due to Satanta's homefield advantage (which came up in Boesch's commentary). All of these things are important because they played into the layout and execution of the match. They shaped Bockwinkel's motivations and had a hand in almost every single thing he did. He didn't just want to win; he had something to prove. He didn't just want to prove he was better; he wanted to hurt Tito. It meant he would be more aggressive than usual and that he would react to what Tito did more viscerally. The additional length and two out of three fall stipulation meant that the match didn't have to follow so straightforward a shine/heat/comeback structure. Instead it was a feeling out process, heel control, babyface shine, heel heat with comeback teases and cut offs (this included the first two falls), and a final heel control leading to the comeback. These were bridged together by repetition, build, and payoff in the form of paralleled transitions, focused offense, and that ultimate tool in pro wrestling, selling. Let's take a look at how character drove the opening feeling out process and how that, and repetition to create an effect, bled into the control and shine. The match started with some deep, gritty lock ups, and subsequent rope breaks. They went back and forth with these, four times, escalating the tease of punches until Bockwinkel, frustrated, finally threw the first opportunistic punch. He paid for it as Tito fired back. That was the framing sequence for the feeling out process. In between, they had oneupmanship driving the frustration, where Tito would do something and then Bockwinkel would manage a less flashy version of it. The best example would be a nice hammerlock-go behind-roll up sequence that I'm not sure I've ever seen Tito use, and Bockwinkel just forcing a go behind and roll up in response. I liked how this was an inversion of the Bockwinkel vs Chavo Guerrero match where Bockwinkel would do the first move and Chavo would then do something similar but flashier. There, Chavo had something to prove. Here it was Bockwinkel. They traded Full Nelsons next, which led to the long, (again, like everything else in this match) gritty test of strength, where Bockwinkel is the aggressor but Tito manages to come back. It's all Bockwinkel can do to get to the ropes and draw the break. That's when he fully snaps, driving forward with a forearm and a headlock takeover, done with trying to wrestle evenly with Tito, done with trying to prove something, actual despair in his face. Now he just wanted to grind him down and hurt him. That was the start of the heel control, which was architecturally beautiful. It goes without saying that they were deeply working the headlock. There was no resting there. Tito was always trying to get leverage or turn him. That said, it was the use of repetition and evolving spots that really made it sing though. Tito made it up and hit a whip only to get shoulder blocked twice and put back in. He made it up a second time and turned the second shoulder block into an arm drag, but Bockwinkel kicked up into Tito's face (remember this later), and put him back in with amazing snap. The third time, after the first shoulder block, Tito slammed him, but Bockwinkel nailed him with a cheapshot, slammed him back, and locked it back in. Finally, the fourth time they made it up, Bockwinkel, unable to contain him any longer, rammed his head into the turnbuckle. He then ran in for a charge, but went shoulder first into the post (remember THIS later too). And that led right into the start of the babyface shine. There were parallels in the babyface shine to the heel control, every piece building on what came before while driving things forward. Of course, it was well worked. Tito varied things up, starting with an armbar and moving to a hammerlock, grinding it, pumphandling it. When we get to see Bockwinkel's selling, it's incredibly emotive. And his "hope" spots? Shoulder block by Tito, arm drag by Bockwinkel, and kick up by Tito (which I asked you to remember when Bockwinkel did it). Then right back into the hold. Perfect symmetry. By the way, little thing, but I loved how Tito used the tights to position Bock around while in the hammerlock. It felt more like the use of the gi in judo than any sort of cheating. They went through another round, this time with Bockwinkel trying a bodyslam (much like the ones during the control) only for Tito to hang on. They were too close to the ropes and that allowed for some distance and harsh punching on Tito, surrendering moral ground from a wrestling perspective. The hurt arm would delay him, however, and Tito would grab the hold again. When Bockwinkel finally escaped, it was with a series of nasty headbutts to create distance (once again surrendering the moral higher ground since he wasn't skilled enough to legitimately escape). This was the start of the real heel heat, Bockwinkel's viciousness and frustration unleashed. He was down to one arm by this point, and that informed how he took the attack to Tito, first escaping with the headbutts, and then using the ring itself as a weapon to make up for his damaged limb. He'd use his feet or his knee to choke Tito on the ropes, would slam him into the turnbuckle. This set the stage for his offense in the rest of the match, all driven by the fact he was selling his arm after minutes of it being worked on. Logic. Meaning. Consequence, but never, ever by losing sight of the heart and soul of the match. Instead, it enhances, provides grounding. The first fall ended here, with Tito, fresher still, fighting back only to miss a flying charge in the corner (mimicking when he took over from Bockwinkel the first time to end the heel control), and Bockwinkel, still hurt, capitalizing with a quick pin. He'd continue to capitalize on that mistake into the second fall, and he'd continue to use the ring as a weapon. He ran with Tito's head, whipping him neck first into the top rope multiple times. He put his head on the bottom rope and drove a knee into it from the turnbuckles. Both of those are things I've never seen Bockwinkel do before, but they fit the match perfectly and were hugely vicious. He tried to run him neck first one too many times, however, and Tito used the momentum to bounce off the ropes, duck a punch, and score the lightning second fall with a cross body, though he didn't immediately shift momentum back in the grander sense. I love that allowance in two out of three fall matches, when they can enhance a hope spot into a fall but just give that all the more reason for the heel to keep the heat on. Bock came into the third fall with the advantage, cutting off another hope spot from Tito by going back to the turnbuckle and the ropes. The late match selling here was off the charts, with both wrestlers portraying exhaustion and the damage of the match, all building to the moment where Bockwinkel whipped Tito and their heads collided. This is where the comeback would normally come. Here, instead, Bockwinkel, likely knowing it was coming from a character perspective, went into the King of the Mountain segment, hugely late into the match, and done with more meanness than I've ever seen it. He was at the very end of his rope. He rolled out with Tito and slammed his head into the post, introducing the blood into the match, and then kept on him, brutally preventing him from getting back in the ring with kicks and a huge haymaker. When he did allow him back in, it's only to slam his head into the turnbuckles again before driving him back out, pinballing him in and out of the ring and doing damage. Eventually, though, after a mare over the top, Tito recovered enough for one last big comeback sequence, firing away with babyface fury that he could channel better than anyone, punching and kicking Bockwinkel in the corner. It ended, however, with the third exclamation point missed charge into the corner of the match and Bockwinkel driving him back out. He beat him on the apron, with the referee, who had enough, playing just a bit of interference, until Tito was able to recover enough to create a tiny bit of distance and capitalize with a slingshot shoulder tackle to take the third fall and win the match. It's staggering to look back and think about all of the callbacks and payoffs, of the way that one act in the match led to the next, the way that certain themes ran through this, of Bockwinkel's pathos, his desperation and frustration and pride, and Santana's skill and perseverance. Nothing came off as haphazard. Bockwinkel's heat was all about using the ropes and turnbuckles. That began due to the armwork and continued because of its viciousness and effectiveness. They paralleled spots from the control in the shine, set up transitions in the ten minute mark that would be paid off in the twenty and the thirty. None of it felt gimmicky or gratuitous. It all furthered a story and was driven by character and all was sold and reacted to and thus was draped in meaning. This is the storytelling standard that every main event match should be judged against.

Good wrestlers can tell a story in the ring. Great wrestlers can craft great Thrillers, the equivalent of crime or spy novels, ones which repeat the same themes again and again, but make for an exciting ride even given that familiarity. Nick Bockwinkel crafts those Thrillers as well, but he crosses genres more deftly than almost any wrestler I've ever seen. He introduces, through build, payoff, and emotional reactions to everything that happens in the ring, elements of the human condition, of more traditional novels, into his wrestling. That was very much at play here. There were a few unique elements to the match's setting. For one, Bockwinkel was chasing. We don't have much footage of him chasing, especially not as a heel and especially not chasing someone other than Verne. Here he was chasing Santana's Gold Cup, won during Paul Boesch's 3 night 50th anniversary tournament, where Santana beat Bockwinkel. Houston used the introduction of artificial titles such as this and JYD's King of Wrestling crown in order to rationalize Bockwinkel losing without losing his World Title, often times to set up a title match where he would seem vulnerable, thus a.) making the fans think they might see a title change and be more apt to buy tickets and b.) making the homegrown stars seem all the more impressive for having a win, with real stakes, over the champ. This match, in particular, was a two out of three falls match, which was not something we saw often, if at all, with AWA Bockwinkel. Finally, he came in with something to prove, having already been defeated in a match that he very much wanted to win, and feeling that the honor of the Gold Cup, a true prize in wrestling, was wasted on Santana. He could claim his previous loss was due to the grueling nature of the tournament or due to Satanta's homefield advantage (which came up in Boesch's commentary). All of these things are important because they played into the layout and execution of the match. They shaped Bockwinkel's motivations and had a hand in almost every single thing he did. He didn't just want to win; he had something to prove. He didn't just want to prove he was better; he wanted to hurt Tito. It meant he would be more aggressive than usual and that he would react to what Tito did more viscerally. The additional length and two out of three fall stipulation meant that the match didn't have to follow so straightforward a shine/heat/comeback structure. Instead it was a feeling out process, heel control, babyface shine, heel heat with comeback teases and cut offs (this included the first two falls), and a final heel control leading to the comeback. These were bridged together by repetition, build, and payoff in the form of paralleled transitions, focused offense, and that ultimate tool in pro wrestling, selling. Let's take a look at how character drove the opening feeling out process and how that, and repetition to create an effect, bled into the control and shine. The match started with some deep, gritty lock ups, and subsequent rope breaks. They went back and forth with these, four times, escalating the tease of punches until Bockwinkel, frustrated, finally threw the first opportunistic punch. He paid for it as Tito fired back. That was the framing sequence for the feeling out process. In between, they had oneupmanship driving the frustration, where Tito would do something and then Bockwinkel would manage a less flashy version of it. The best example would be a nice hammerlock-go behind-roll up sequence that I'm not sure I've ever seen Tito use, and Bockwinkel just forcing a go behind and roll up in response. I liked how this was an inversion of the Bockwinkel vs Chavo Guerrero match where Bockwinkel would do the first move and Chavo would then do something similar but flashier. There, Chavo had something to prove. Here it was Bockwinkel. They traded Full Nelsons next, which led to the long, (again, like everything else in this match) gritty test of strength, where Bockwinkel is the aggressor but Tito manages to come back. It's all Bockwinkel can do to get to the ropes and draw the break. That's when he fully snaps, driving forward with a forearm and a headlock takeover, done with trying to wrestle evenly with Tito, done with trying to prove something, actual despair in his face. Now he just wanted to grind him down and hurt him. That was the start of the heel control, which was architecturally beautiful. It goes without saying that they were deeply working the headlock. There was no resting there. Tito was always trying to get leverage or turn him. That said, it was the use of repetition and evolving spots that really made it sing though. Tito made it up and hit a whip only to get shoulder blocked twice and put back in. He made it up a second time and turned the second shoulder block into an arm drag, but Bockwinkel kicked up into Tito's face (remember this later), and put him back in with amazing snap. The third time, after the first shoulder block, Tito slammed him, but Bockwinkel nailed him with a cheapshot, slammed him back, and locked it back in. Finally, the fourth time they made it up, Bockwinkel, unable to contain him any longer, rammed his head into the turnbuckle. He then ran in for a charge, but went shoulder first into the post (remember THIS later too). And that led right into the start of the babyface shine. There were parallels in the babyface shine to the heel control, every piece building on what came before while driving things forward. Of course, it was well worked. Tito varied things up, starting with an armbar and moving to a hammerlock, grinding it, pumphandling it. When we get to see Bockwinkel's selling, it's incredibly emotive. And his "hope" spots? Shoulder block by Tito, arm drag by Bockwinkel, and kick up by Tito (which I asked you to remember when Bockwinkel did it). Then right back into the hold. Perfect symmetry. By the way, little thing, but I loved how Tito used the tights to position Bock around while in the hammerlock. It felt more like the use of the gi in judo than any sort of cheating. They went through another round, this time with Bockwinkel trying a bodyslam (much like the ones during the control) only for Tito to hang on. They were too close to the ropes and that allowed for some distance and harsh punching on Tito, surrendering moral ground from a wrestling perspective. The hurt arm would delay him, however, and Tito would grab the hold again. When Bockwinkel finally escaped, it was with a series of nasty headbutts to create distance (once again surrendering the moral higher ground since he wasn't skilled enough to legitimately escape). This was the start of the real heel heat, Bockwinkel's viciousness and frustration unleashed. He was down to one arm by this point, and that informed how he took the attack to Tito, first escaping with the headbutts, and then using the ring itself as a weapon to make up for his damaged limb. He'd use his feet or his knee to choke Tito on the ropes, would slam him into the turnbuckle. This set the stage for his offense in the rest of the match, all driven by the fact he was selling his arm after minutes of it being worked on. Logic. Meaning. Consequence, but never, ever by losing sight of the heart and soul of the match. Instead, it enhances, provides grounding. The first fall ended here, with Tito, fresher still, fighting back only to miss a flying charge in the corner (mimicking when he took over from Bockwinkel the first time to end the heel control), and Bockwinkel, still hurt, capitalizing with a quick pin. He'd continue to capitalize on that mistake into the second fall, and he'd continue to use the ring as a weapon. He ran with Tito's head, whipping him neck first into the top rope multiple times. He put his head on the bottom rope and drove a knee into it from the turnbuckles. Both of those are things I've never seen Bockwinkel do before, but they fit the match perfectly and were hugely vicious. He tried to run him neck first one too many times, however, and Tito used the momentum to bounce off the ropes, duck a punch, and score the lightning second fall with a cross body, though he didn't immediately shift momentum back in the grander sense. I love that allowance in two out of three fall matches, when they can enhance a hope spot into a fall but just give that all the more reason for the heel to keep the heat on. Bock came into the third fall with the advantage, cutting off another hope spot from Tito by going back to the turnbuckle and the ropes. The late match selling here was off the charts, with both wrestlers portraying exhaustion and the damage of the match, all building to the moment where Bockwinkel whipped Tito and their heads collided. This is where the comeback would normally come. Here, instead, Bockwinkel, likely knowing it was coming from a character perspective, went into the King of the Mountain segment, hugely late into the match, and done with more meanness than I've ever seen it. He was at the very end of his rope. He rolled out with Tito and slammed his head into the post, introducing the blood into the match, and then kept on him, brutally preventing him from getting back in the ring with kicks and a huge haymaker. When he did allow him back in, it's only to slam his head into the turnbuckles again before driving him back out, pinballing him in and out of the ring and doing damage. Eventually, though, after a mare over the top, Tito recovered enough for one last big comeback sequence, firing away with babyface fury that he could channel better than anyone, punching and kicking Bockwinkel in the corner. It ended, however, with the third exclamation point missed charge into the corner of the match and Bockwinkel driving him back out. He beat him on the apron, with the referee, who had enough, playing just a bit of interference, until Tito was able to recover enough to create a tiny bit of distance and capitalize with a slingshot shoulder tackle to take the third fall and win the match. It's staggering to look back and think about all of the callbacks and payoffs, of the way that one act in the match led to the next, the way that certain themes ran through this, of Bockwinkel's pathos, his desperation and frustration and pride, and Santana's skill and perseverance. Nothing came off as haphazard. Bockwinkel's heat was all about using the ropes and turnbuckles. That began due to the armwork and continued because of its viciousness and effectiveness. They paralleled spots from the control in the shine, set up transitions in the ten minute mark that would be paid off in the twenty and the thirty. None of it felt gimmicky or gratuitous. It all furthered a story and was driven by character and all was sold and reacted to and thus was draped in meaning. This is the storytelling standard that every main event match should be judged against.

It's like weightlifting. You have to not just lift the weight but hold it there for a few seconds?

It's like anything else. A lot of times wrestlers do things without realizing why they were done. Something as simple as a dropdown being a trip attempt gets lost over the years and the more complex the moves being done, the easier it is to lose some of the reasoning behind them, and then you lose some of the grounding. I don't think it's as much about less is more so much as they need to see that the struggle that really permeates so much of old WoS wrestling, even when things were tricked out, is there. It's worth noting that there was a podcast out there a few weeks ago with a UK wrestler who indicated that Regal and Finlay felt that Sabre's wrestling was "gay" or something along those lines. This is a HUGE chain of telephone though so don't quote me on any of that.

He's the only guy in the company that would heel on the Topsail crowd for a Takeover being in NYC.

If that doesn't do well, then we know Brock isn't a draw.

It's funny. The brothers Cooke chiming in here got me thinking. There's a lot of early 1980s (and late 1970s) AJPW that I hadn't seen before. I was, however, demonstrably more excited when Our Friend in Japan would post something which we, as a community, hadn't yet seen, despite the fact that a huge chunk of what he was posting, new to us or not, was new to me. On the other hand, I don't really have that feeling for what dataintcash posts. It's cool to have someone like Kris see something he'd never seen before, but in general I'm excited for everything he posts that's new to me and not otherwise online. Some of that is because my wrestling budget for the year is pretty small in general and while I've purchased a bit of lucha over the last few years (80s set, Cota vs Casas hair match before it ended up online, Fredo's GdI comp), I'm probably not going to randomly buy this footage. Some of it is just that I care more about lucha than All Japan. I think what it really is, however, is that I feel like this stuff hasn't been examined by the community nearly as much, especially through the non-Meltzerian lens of lucha watching. So that these matches become easily accessible to the people watching now is almost as important as us getting our hands on brand new things. I didn't get that sense for the AJPW stuff that had already been out there nearly as much.

He won the Cow Palace battle royal one year. How does that compare with Ultimo Dragon having 9 belts?

Judy Martin is awesome.

I know in my head that dataintcash will stop posting for a few months soon so I'll have plenty of time to get through it, but in my heart, I want to watch all of it right now because it all looks amazing and I feel like I'm falling behind!

Some very quick thoughts which I'll try to expand on later. In short, I loved it. I'll try to give a full write up in the next few days.

Ah! Just starting this now. It's not the Gold Cup Final. It's Tito defending instead. But that just means the Gold Cup is still potentially out there too. Also, Bruce, I hope you caught that Hayes vs Williams cage match.

Which is why HBK replacing Taylor is a great idea.

Who ended up with Steel/Val?

What moves do regularly get pops right now? (I think he does the move due to a Napoleon complex btw. Size driven main event world.)

Can you imagine 91 sheets. "Another geriatric snoozefest booked by Von Lamer."

And we appreciate 40 minutes (w/ promos) of Tito and Bock. Oh hey! I think that's the Gold Cup match. Can't wait til I can see it tonight.

That's sort of what happened with Frey.

The personality piece on Boesch was awesome. So many great shots of his office. He comes off as so likable. Any grief we give you is out of love for the footage, Bruce.

There's cooling the crowd down and then there's dressing up in a fuzzy parka and shooting them with a freeze ray while cackling maniacally. 16 minutes for Bellomo vs Rose?

Talk about purpose...

Moolah is really holding everyone down again.