Matt D

Where did you rank Mighty Atlas?

Simply put: the issue isn't about "Who do I like the most right now?" or "Who would I most like to watch?" (That is very much as symptom) but "What criteria do I value the most (in deciding who is the greatest) in 2015 and is that the same as it was in 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011? 2006? It's not. So, then who meets that this reevaluated criteria the most?" It's not the wrestlers that have changed; it's not always the footage that has changed; for me, it's the criteria. And even then it's the BALANCE of factors. I have my own issues with blind spots and time limitations, and I've covered that elsewhere. If someone wants to rake me over the coals here, too, that's fine (and warranted), but it'd be a distraction from the clarification at hand. EDIT: I've said it before but a lot of this becomes the issue between specific rankings. Within my criteria, I don't value execution or stiffness highly. But for wrestlers who use those things to create an effect successfully (and even ones who don't, but are just extremely good at it), that's a factor to take into consideration. It's just less of an important factor than other things to me, so while they'll rank, they'll rank less highly. I don't want to watch any more Hansen right now (at least Hansen in Japan), but he'll still be in my top 30, over wrestlers I'd much rather watch right now. There'll probably be 29 wrestlers I'd rather watch more above him, but that's because they meet other criteria. Their meeting my criteria of what makes wrestlers great is more often than not what makes me want to watch them more in this specific case. But even that's not the point. i'm just trying to redirect you away from what I think is a distraction to the point with everything in this edit.

I've been holding in the line about Flair's "impact" for weeks.

Buddy's an interesting case since he has great matches but what'll propel him to the top ten is seeing him from week to week and how switches up his act and reacts to different, sometimes subpar opponents. For instance, vs King Parsons, which leads into this singles: and these two tag matches:

I got a big kick out of Rich playing bullfighter at the beginning. I really liked seeing Duggan and Rich interact too. It all felt like a really big deal. The finish was fine for what it was, an attraction setting up another match. It wasn't ideal, but it's also not like there are kayfabe rankings in Houston. Past things like the brass knucks title or those occasions when the NWA title came on in, Houston feels more like a special attraction battleground where wrestlers from all over the country can meet to face each other. It means that there are both more and less consequence to victory. This was a match where a wrestler from one territory was facing a monster pulled from deepest, darkest Africa. Pete or Bruce could maybe speak more to how the fans in that arena might have felt, but I don't think they were thinking about the effects of a victory on NWA rankings here.

This is fair. It's all good points. To me, there are two categories of people here, those who are like Will and have seen enough to feel like they have it all worked out. For them, things will only move a little here or there. Then there's a lot of the rest of us who are missing huge swaths of wrestling. As much as I'd love to do it before the ballot, I just don't think I have time to focus heavily on Puerto Rico. However, I intend to watch a lot of Puerto Rico in 2016, not necessarily for this project, but just to get a better sense of it and because people have talked it up so much recently. I'm going to keep watching 70s and 80s UK. I'm going to keep delving into lucha. I'm going to lean more towards BattlARTS or whatever. I'll watch more joshi. But most of this, not by the deadline. I'm sure a good chunk of us are in that same boat one way or another. For the person who said that he was looking forward to watching stuff specifically not for this project, I'm sure that means "wrestling he hasn't seen," and some of that would, by its nature, play into the project. That said, you made valid points and it would be a more personal thing for everyone. The lower cost means a lower benefit. I was focused on the cost when it made more sense to focus on the benefit. Even so, I think the sum of new or different material that everyone is watching, along with new voices coming here and some wrestlers on the list being on the cusp when it comes to having enough matches under their belt, is enough that we should at least consider a 3 or a 5 year check in.

I think that we're all watching quite a bit, all the time. The ballots wouldn't move much from year to year, but that'd make it easier on us, but we'd be ever getting closer to seeing everything. It'd help encompass any projects that happen during the year. There's a lot more work in 5 years than there is in one year. In my mind, though, it's more about how we change over time, with younger people seeing more and more and with the older people constantly updating their viewpoints. I think it'd be relatively little effort and a good way to check in where we are every year and to help sum up our years' watching.

What's the downside of yearly check-ins? Most of the heavy work will be done for 2016. It'll just be shifting things around per what you've seen and where the discussion has gone in the 12 months after.

Chad, I listed off my thoughts on what we were doing the other day and the response was that it was a day late and the matter was settled and there was no point in running it into the ground more. So I just sort of accepted that.

To be fair, this is the same offended and patronizing attitude Parv had in places such as the "who is better: Dibiase or Bossman" thread, so this is obviously deeper and more personal than just the name of this project. That said, I am not at all tied to the name of this project. Wrestler Snapshot - 2015 Edition would be perfectly fine to me. Or anything like that. I voiced my thoughts over in the Everyone Should Make a Ballot thread. We don't have to brag or come off as pretentious with the title of this project. We all know what we're doing.

All the more so because this isn't, in the least, a sports list but an artistic one. There are very few quantifiable elements to this process, even less so than something like the WON HOF where drawing factors in.

I don't know if I have Vader over Mark Henry or Crusher Blackwell, as it comes to giants. (He definitely doesn't beat Andre.) He's one guy I have to really try to revisit though.

A lot of it is the sheer surprise of not knowing what's going to happen next. They're so terrible at that now, though.

If that's the July 29, 1983 show, where was Rich working regularly at the time? GA?

Let's put it this way: I don't think anyone looks at the poll done 10 years ago as anything but a snapshot of the world of the voter base from 10 years ago. Some of that is viewing habits, and footage availability, and current sentiment. Five years from now, people will look back at this poll in the same way. We're not deciding upon TRUTH. We're making a snapshot, and some of that might factor into account the timing of this year's Atlantis match or new footage showing up on NWA Classics and being overvalued because it's new or whatever. In that regard, it's sort of important that everyone does vote to create the broadest picture of the community surrounding this project possible. Then we can see how it's changed in a year or two years or five years or ten years or whatever. Do people disagree with this sentiment? Let's have that discussion now before it gets any closer to the vote.

So where is the Wrestling Culture Hall of Fame going to be located?

I thought he was pretty good here. Bumped well. Kept things moving. Has any of this card been out there previously? Boesch @ Houston, TX – Sam Houston Coliseum – September 27, 1985 Eddie Gilbert d. Jerry Grey Lord Humongous d. Tony Falk The Fantastics d. Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantell Jake Roberts d. The Barbarian by DQ Ted DiBiase d. Chavo Guerrero by countout North American Heavyweight Title: Dick Murdoch © battled Butch Reed to a double countout Hacksaw Duggan d. El Corsario Loser Leaves Town Steel Cage Match: Hacksaw Duggan d. Skandor Akbar --- There's a bunch of stuff there that looks interesting.

Unfortunately "Something" is probably about 2 months worth of programs before he ends up as aimless as most of the guys on the roster.

The Cooley vs Corsario match was a perfectly fine 7 minute low-card match. Corsario has the prettiest missed elbow drop you'll see this week.

Both of those are very, very good

Promos are the best part of this, including Dusty sort of having to just let Santana go with the Spanish. I thought Marcus looked really bad here, astoundingly bad. He just wasn't giving Tito anything to work with. That must have driven Tito nuts.

My most hated title WIN of all time was the Godfather winning the IC belt, but that doesn't count. Title runs in 98-99 were so short. Like the Karagias Crusierweight run. I really hated the Hogan April-July 98 run too as a kid, but it was relatively slight.

They can call him Dr. π. No one will know,

I'm still playing catch up but people you guys need to have on: jdw Herb Kunze Al Issacs Sean Waltman

Cherry is 40 now. The 50s greaser valet grown into the early 60s housewife. Is she still working?