Matt D

This is PWO and we have a higher standard of avoiding personal attacks here than elsewhere so I shall mostly take the high road, but I think this seals the deal. For a very reasonable amount of money and the time it will take to watch 100 matches, I will be glad to participate. On the one hand, if I really find a lot that I like and broaden my views on an entire culture of wrestling, great, excellent. That's why I hang out here, right? A year and a half ago, I hadn't seen any Portland or AWA at all really. On the other, if I absolutely hate it and spend two months completely and honestly shitting on stuff that this grumpy dude right here loves? Hey, I can live with that too. Win, win. I'm in.

Buddy vs Martel - 5/17/80 - 2/3 Falls for the Title Buddy is still rocking the ridiculous white mask/wig. Some lady gives Martel flowers before the match. Oh man! It's so Buddy can destroy them. So carny. Sandy Barr throws the belt down in disgust. It's a ploy so Buddy can get in and ambush Martel who chases him but Rick gets the upper hand quickly and Buddy has to take a powder. Great start. The females in the crowd are erupting and Barr is still selling it like Rose committed some blasphemy. It finally settles down with Martel locking on a headlock but the crowd is still riotous. This is some of the most excited I've ever seen a crowd for an extended headlock, but Martel really grinds it in and Buddy's trying desperately to calm them down (Which just makes them stay loud, of course). Every time Buddy goes for Martel's hair or something we get more noise. Buddy pushes him off the ropes and they do this amazing dueling shoulder block/super-fast sunset flip spot. It's great. Then Martel locks back on the headlock. Did Martel pop the territory with females or something? I feel like I'm watching an 84 RnR match in mid south or something. They keep building to Buddy trying something and Martel doing something big (in this case a frankensteiner) before locking the headlock back on. This feels a lot more like AWA Martel with a base that they go in and out of and Buddy's a great foil for him. The crowd is hotter for Martel here than any AWA crowd I can think of which is a testament to how he's been booked, to Buddy, and to the Portland atmosphere. It's adding a lot to what would otherwise still be a very good first fall. Buddy finally gets out and goes for a dropkick but Martel catches him and I think Buddy does the most amazing sell of a catapult into the corner I've ever seen. Martel goes into the corner to come off with the headlock again but Buddy turns it into a back suplex. Buddy's hurting but takes over with his usual nice looking offense, focusing on the back. The fans are really rallying for Martel here. He hits a Calf Branding but does it into the square of the back instead of the head. Holy crap. Then a huge Robinson backbreaker and that's the fall and the fans are irate. GREAT first fall. Extremely straightforward but just absolutely beautiful pro wrestling. If that was the entire match it would be a great match. Second fall starts with Buddy hammering in on the back still (because that's how Portland falls work), including absolutely brutal kicks as Martel is up dangling in the corner. He ends up falling over the ropes and according to Bonnema hit the apron on the way down. Buddy keeps on the back using the ring post. Martel sells like a king. Buddy goes for an abdominal stretch but Martel reverses it. Buddy uses the hair to hip toss him off. Martel's selling huge so Buddy gets up first and starts right back on the spine, including a nice elbow drop, after which he pins him and counts along with the ref arrogantly. Buddy goes for a gutwrench suplex but Martel reverses it. Buddyis up first as Martel is selling but Martel reverses a front vertical suplex as well. Buddy is up first again but this time Martel's ready and he hammers Buddy with a forearm (selling the back afterwards) and then a whip into the corner (still selling), before unloading with fists. He hits a slam (and hey! he sells again). This lets Buddy get back up and try for a whip. Martel reverses it into the sleeper though! That's the fall. I loved the way Martel's comeback built and how he kept selling even to the point that it built into the finish. It was a short fall but it was great. Of course, Martel has to wake up Rose after the fall. Martel is a dick about it though. He finally does it with Buddy spasming accordingly. Third fall starts with Buddy screwing with the turnbuckle. Martel's still selling his back. The fans are shouting and pointing so Barr goes and checks it out. Martel kind of whips around the ring, never letting Rose out of his gaze to check it out too. It does give Rose the rest period he needs and he starts out on Martel only to get reversed into a backslide near fall. Martel unloads in the corner, is reversed in a whip, goes for a reverse body press off the ropes, but hits hard as Buddy ducks. Buddy starts on the back of the neck and then goes for HUGE punches but Martel reverses and they're slugging at each other in the corner now until Martel gets the upper hand. He hits a mare and goes for an elbow drop but misses. Buddy stomps the midsection and goes for a splash but lands on the knees. This is really back and forth but everything is measured and has weight. Martel hits a few shots to the midsection, tosses Buddy into the corner and locks on the sleeper again! Sheepherders come in, nail Barr, and then start on Martel with the flag. Piper and Dutch savage make the save. I don't know. I think this was probably a better match than the April one. I know that one's more highly touted but this was just a beautiful, beautiful match. The first fall was really tight and so well worked. The second fall had a great story that I loved and it was executed brilliantly and then the third fall had a less satisfying finish than the april match but was a more complete, exciting fall, if that makes sense. They're both amazing matches though.

My condition is that if I do the lucha set my reviews have to be read with Yakety Sax on in the background. I read what Will said as "You know, I don't think your money is worth putting up with you for three months," as kindly as possible. Alright, here's my compromise. If someone promises to do what khawk did over at DVDVR putting stuff into context, then I will absolutely do the set. I'd assume that'd be who? Phil? My post was not meant to discourage but I don't want you suffering either. If you aren't going to have fun watching lucha, what's the point in participating? I forget who it was at DVDVR years back who was shitting on every Texas match on the set and I thought to myself "this guy is a troll or is just torturing himself." In terms of context, you'll have Alfredo and Kris Z to give you context. I'll also do viewing podcasts with Kris as historian giving background and pointing out who the guys are. If nothing else, I am excited about the chance to learn about a topic I know so little about. It's a bit tricky to me. Narrative is so important to how I watch wrestling but people argue that this is something with its own set of conventions and, basically its own reality. Dylan doesn't but other people do. If that's the case, I should be mindful of that. By that logic, though, there's no reason why we shouldn't look at all wrestling that way and then I should be a lot kinder to indy spotfests that aren't very mindful of narrative and I can't quite manage that. I think I might be able to with 80s lucha since it's more esoteric? I have no idea though.

I actually paused the podcast and went to youtube to see if there was anything there for Orton/Slater too. The Brody stuff was a little painful.

I think you see it as the sign of a Tier 3 guy and not a Tier 2 one.

Sometimes, Parv, a man just has to be reminded how good he has it.

I love that the guys Flair chose to compare Bryan to unfavorably are Mulligan and Brody.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/...-john-cena.html Sample comments from the first 8 pages -The thing I hate most about him is the fact that he can never lose a match fair and square. Also his 9-year-old fans -His goofy character. That's it. -His character is a dickhead, there is no reason to cheer for him. -he sold his soul to the devil for the gold and heralded the tyrannical PG era -He's a massive hypocrite. -But if I were to nitpick... I don't like the way he brushes off everything people says to him with a smile or a shrug of the shoulders and sarcastic glance at the audience. I don't like the designs for his attire. I don't like the perception that has been created through watching his matches that it's near impossible to beat him clean. -No-sells everyone -Never loses clean -One of the most unentertaining and stale people to ever "wrestle" (if you can even call it that) in a ring -He is living proof that you can have not one skill involved in the wrestling industry and still be big, due to pure ass kissing. -I don't hate him. But he says the same damn promo and wrestles the same damn match every damn night. -I like and respect John Cena. I hate his goofy, hypocritical and annoying character he is given. -sloppy wrestling, shouting promos, un beatable superman attitude, never getting pinned clean, stale character. Apart from these, I don'think he even wants to change. He is just happy doing the same shtick and getting paid. - His ridiculously limited moveset. - His abysmal selling. - He cannot sell an injury and make it look legitimate. He never sells or looks to fight out of moves properly i.e. Brock Lesnar's F5 last year; he goes completely limp despite taking no prior damage. He no sells finishers during pinfalls (Against The Rock at Wrestlemania he kicks out of the 2nd(?) Rock Bottom literally a split second after the 2 count. Alright, I'm done. I'd say 80% of the people think that he's stale with about 50% complaining that he doesn't acknowledge what anyone says. Very few people actually mentioned his stuff in ring and an number of them like him well enough in ring but hate how his character is presented. That's just one site but it was a fairly new post and probably a relatively broad range of ages and what not. I'm not going back outside for a while.

I'm leaving our ivory tower and I'm going to start googling things.

That's not the question here though. The question is "why do they think he's better than Cena?" or "What does Punk do that they think is better?"

I kind of want to delve more into the idea not that John Cena sucks, but that John Cena can't wrestle, where it came from, why and HOW people think it. A lot of times when I hear it, the point of comparison isn't between Cena and other WWE main eventers like Steve Austin, but instead between Cena and indy darlings or guys like CM Punk.

I'm not going week by week, just broad themes. Cast of characters: Regal had assembled his Ruthless Roundtable of Ezekiel Jackson and Vladmir Koslov. They had been trying to get Christian's belt for basically half a year and failing. Trent Baretta and Caylen Croft had been called up as a tag team. Hawkins, as best as I can remember, was not called up with them and didn't show up on the roster til May. Zach Ryder was still a heel and just beat Dreamer in a feud that sent him out of the company. Daniel Bryan was in developmental basically warming up but ready to be called up at any point. He had just had his match with Kaval in FCW on January 14. This is what I actually wanted to happen back in January 2010. Step 1: Hawkins debuts out of nowhere ambushing Ryder with Croft and Baretta as back up. They play up that he's pissed off he's been wallowing in FCW while his former partner's been on the ECW roster. Step 2: Ryder does the ol' "Will you team with me, Sting?" gimmick with Christian over a span of a few weeks until Christian finally agrees. Step 3: Ryder/Christian vs Dudebusters ends with Ryder turning on Christian to form an extended Dudebusters, Inc 4-man unit. I actually might put Ryder over as ECW champion here, but to do so would mean that the belt would be on the line in the upcoming 8-man Mania match that I'm about to get to and that seems like a TERRIBLE idea, so let's not. Step 4: Christian, pissed off and needing back up makes a deal with the devil with Regal's group for an Extreme Rules 8-man tag match at Wrestlemania. The condition is that Christian will have to give a title shot to any member of the Roundtable at Extreme Rules. Christian and company win. On the next ECW Regal introduces his personal protege, Daniel Bryan as his ringer to finally defeat Christian. That's pretty much all I have. I think I would have enjoyed it more than NXT Season 1.

Obviously it's Big Show in an episode of Psych.

My favorite thing about that segment is seeing Heenan interact with Blassie.

My condition is that if I do the lucha set my reviews have to be read with Yakety Sax on in the background. I read what Will said as "You know, I don't think your money is worth putting up with you for three months," as kindly as possible. Alright, here's my compromise. If someone promises to do what khawk did over at DVDVR putting stuff into context, then I will absolutely do the set. I'd assume that'd be who? Phil?

Beard Solidarity

I think he can trade it with Punk a few times. Maybe during Halftime Heat.

With Flair he was a ... what Financial Consultant? Executive Consultant? What the heck was his title there. I forget. And remember, when the Hart Foundation sacked Jimmy Hart they played up that he still owned their contract for a few months. Hell, like you brought up, Heenan tried to sell Hercules to Dibiase as a PERSONAL SLAVE

It's even better if he has to beat HHH at TLC to get in.

That's true. I just think it's pretty much a given that most wrestling fans, when posed with the question "Who had more great main events? Bret Hart or John Cena?", the overwhelming response would be Hart. I think people have come around on the whole "Cena can't wrestle" thing, but he still doesn't get the credit he's due for his work. Pretty simply it's because most wrestling fans don't appreciate the things he does well. Or at least they don't realize that they appreciate those things.

I always saw Managers as the employers not the employees. They were record labels that had artists under contract or even sports teams that fielded players. I'm not sure that makes any sense but it was sort of how it was presented I think. Monsoon always went on about how Heenan was probably taking the majority of money from guys like Barbarian who didn't know better.

Tito Santana vs THE EXECUTIONER - Wrestlemania I What the hell, right? Nice quick criss-cross stuff early on. THE EXECUTIONER eats a big backdrop then a dropkick through the second rope stooging a bit with the fans on the apron before he comes back in. The fans are buzzing. Tito locks on a headlock and takes him over using the ropes/turnbuckles. Obviously we're losing some facial expressiveness in the selling due to the mask. THE EXECUTIONER gets out with these great little underjabs to the leg though. This pisses Tito out and he drops the technical stuff for a few punches and a slam of the head into the mat. He makes sure to sell while getting up even after the two jabs which is good stuff. THE EXECUTIONER begs off and draws Tito into the corner where he kicks him. That's the transition. He takes over with some big looking offense including a nice headbutt. Once he gets Tito down he immediately goes for the leg, getting kicked off of a figure four once and then going for the Gagne Lock but Tito slips his leg around the head in the midst of it and does an amazingly cool roll up out of it for a two count. That was beautiful. Tito's back up kicking and THE EXECUTIONER is begging off. Legendary "latin temper" shows no mercy though and Tito unloads before whipping him in. There is a lot of gear adjustment from THE EXECUTIONER so he's obviously not comfortable in there. Tito goes for the "bell-ringer" but when he jumps up, THE EXECUTIONER stands right up causing a stunted but pretty cool back body drop. Bodyslam by THE EXECUTIONER but he gets caught going up the ropes and flies across the ring with Tito's help. Tito goes for a splash but eats some knees. He starts going for the leg again with one butt drop in the ropes. he goes for another but Tito kicks him right out of the ring as he goes up again. It was almost a parallel spot to the reversal earlier in the match. Tito slams him back into the ring in a big way, hits the Flying Forearm and then puts on the Figure Four (though THE EXECUTIONER does an admirable job trying and failing to slap on a small package in the midst of it). Lots of flailing and selling and suffering as the ref goes to call for the bell. Tito dickishly keeps it on after the bell but the crowd loves it. Yeah, you know what? You could watch that match and still see how good Buddy was even in the 6 minutes, even working with gear he was OBVIOUSLY uncomfortable with and with some of his best assets cut off completely. There were 3-4 things in there I've never even seen in another match done quite the same way (the bell ringer reversal, the boot out of the ring during the butt drop, the gagne lock reversal into a cradle), though I might see them if I saw a bit more 84-85 Buddy and Tito, sure. They had a very short amount of time and a very hot crowd and still told a pretty good story in there. Everything Buddy did looked good except for the fact he was constantly messing with his gear, but really that never got in the way of when he was on offense or selling. If anything, it helps to explain why Tito was able to come back as much as he did. Seriously, someone could watch that thing on loop and they'd have no reason to think that THE EXECUTIONER was not really quite good and wouldn't want to see more of him.

Watch it be Joey Styles