Matt D

Can we blame Flair for Crockett's shitty business decisions?

Next contrast Mark Henry and Kurt Angle and see what happens.

I think most of that is bullshit. It's easy to say on paper that you need to work the crowd. Very few people show that they know how to do it. The reason why "playing a role right" is such a touted thing right now is because so few wrestlers in the history of ever actually do it. If 95% of wrestlers showed that they get it, then it wouldn't matter. I think a massive minority ultimately show that. The concussion issue is something I will give though. But those are generally exceptions and you can figure it out through watching them wrestling. Terry Gordy, for instance, I would not judge on his late career. Also, wrestling is subjective. It's an art form, not a science. It's an art form, not a sport. Some people care the most about good punches. Other people care more about what a wrestler does. Some people care more about execution than others. For me, wrestling is symbolism. On the other hand, if someone throws a shitty punch but they're smart enough to realize that and not throw punches but do something else, then they can be just as good in the ring as someone that throws a great punch, ESPECIALLY if the latter is, let's say, Terry Funk and actually punching people. I'm not saying any asshole can throw real punches and have them look good because we've heard of really stiff guys whose stuff have looked like shit, but if you really punch someone, there's a good chance it'll look good. EDIT: Mark Henry is one of the best guys when it comes to playing a role, and we can go into detail on this again if we have to. The way he knows how much to give at what point in order to achieve the best reaction, when to allow a hope spot, when to cut it off, when to jaw with the ref. I think there's a fine line between theory and execution here. He's able to use his weight in a way that he makes his stuff look great and that he works like a big man. I've seen other big guys execute stuff very well, but execute it wrong for the role they were supposed to play. Likewise, there's the story of JJ Dillon going out and and having a great match to impress the boys but then get yelled at because he was supposed to work like a chickenshit manager. Hey! Johnny Polo vs Marty Jannetty on Raw is worked exactly like that. Levy works his ass off but he takes way too much of the match and hits way too much high end stuff (and he hits it well because he was so frustrated with his lack of wrestling at the time) and it destroys what the point of the match was supposed to be, which is funny when Vince talks about it a week later and his talking points have nothing to do with the actual reality of the match. Nine times out of ten, I'd rather see someone do the right thing poorly than someone do the wrong thing well. That tenth time is Crusher and Baron vs Freebirds. Obviously, I'd rather see someone do the right thing well. (Or what I feel is the right thing performed what I think is "well" because again, subjective). But all else equal, I'll take a guy with slightly better theory over a guy with slightly better execution anyday.

I think you learn a hell of a lot more about a worker watching him work post-prime than you do watching him in his prime. I realize that's an extreme notion, but for someone who thinks the most important aspect of a wrestler is knowing how to do the right thing at the right time, what he does when he can no longer use physicality as a crutch really shows whether or not he "gets it."

Was Brown the booker too?

That would easily be the most coherent thing Snuka ever said.

I really like listening to Levy talk about wrestling. You get the idea he really gets it. I don't really like WATCHING Levy wrestle.

I liked Andre+Baba vs Demos fine. Everything he does makes sense, has meaning and weight. It's smart, very self-aware wrestling.

The interview a few weeks before where Steamboat introduces the Ninja is awesome. "This is a man in black.. this is a master of the martial arts.. this is a..... NINJA!" It's almost more ridiculous than anything he did as the Dragon in WWF.

There's a super clipped but still really cool Ladd vs Bock match from the 70s you should watch. I think it's his 84 Mid South run that really showed me how good he was because he was 45 then.

Ladd is awesome. Crush was definitely a better big power move babyface than a heel.

"I do not enjoy wildman gimmicks. Now then, please pass the caviar." 2 .Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (7/19/85) 4. Crusher Blackwell, Larry Hennig & Tom Zenk vs. The Fabulous Freebirds (8/22/85) 5. Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens vs. Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig (6/13/85) 6. Sgt. Slaughter vs. Boris Zuhkov (9/28/85) 8. Crusher Blackwell vs. Kamala (Bodyslam Challenge) (9/28/85) 9. Terry Gordy vs. Rick Martel (August 1985) 11. Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook vs. Cowboy Lang & Little Coco (7/18/85) I'll rewatch Gordy/Martel and the midgets match but not because I'm afraid of Johnny outing me as a midget hater.

I think he's going to say "Yes." That's when you kick out the print out of the note and hand it to him. I'm sure that's what he's always wanted.

The worst part of this project is that I now tend to call VON KRAMER "Parv." "What's the origin of the pound?" It was actually worth a literal pound of silver way back in Early Middle Ages Anglo/Saxon England. He's the one with the literature background. I'm the one with the medieval history Masters. I think you guys totally slept on Greg Gagne UNLEASHED in that match. I figured that'd come out even more in the group setting. He was the god damn Ultimate Warrior in that match. Parv Von Bockwinkel is a great gimmick. Though Johnny is the one with the maniacal laugh. Obviously I'm going to have to rewatch the midget match. thanks. It still had the best atomic drop of all time. There was a ladies tag I thought should have made it on the set, neither here nor there. I'll try to remember what it was. I couldn't convince anyone to watch it after I saw it. Ah: It was Richter/Grable vs Mcintyre/Martin. It's offline now. It was a fun spotfest at least as good as.. let's say Badd Company vs Midnight Rockers. I need to rewatch that too to see if it holds up. I love this Martel vs Bock. It's not my top match of theirs by any means, but the sprint nature of it just shows how both guys are so versatile. re: Martel. I think the issue with him is that he's better as a face. I think he still has some really good babyface matches in WWF. There's a match with Tama which is worth watching for instance. He's pretty cruddy as a heel though. There's some of his pre-WCW work with Don Callis online and I've been meaning to watch it. Hennig is the guy who had good matches as both a face and heel in AWA but that was completely neutered in WWF. I already decided I need to rewatch Gordy/Martel. It was pretty forgettable to me though I think I had a problem with the psych, especially of the final third. Finishes where the banned guys come back to interfere really piss me off. I tuned you guys out completely after minute #2 of the Zenk talk.

If we aren't going to get Punk/Brock vs Taker/HHH, then I want a Punk/Shield vs Ryback/Orton/Sheamus/Taker gimmick match with Maddox as ref and Heyman in a cage above the ring.

I've got very little to say about the back half. It was sad seeing you guys optimistic at the start of the Crusher/Baron match knowing where it goes. Johnny Boogie Woogie Sorrow being depressed by a match is a sad thing indeed. Kris' subdued marking out for the front chancery in every match was good. Larry Hennig did that shitty collision transition again in his match btw thus somehow invalidating it in both matches he did it in. My least favorite spot on the entire set I think. Well, you know, past the worst offender of the 80s in that that shitty cage match to come. 1. King Tonga, Masked Superstar, & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Crusher Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) (4/21/85) 3. Mr. Saito vs. Rick Martel (4/24/85) 7. Bobby Duncum & Billy Robinson vs. Jim Brunzell & Tonga Kid (4/21/85) 10. Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. Verne & Greg Gagne (4/21/85) 12. Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens vs. Larry & Curt Hennig (4/24/85) - my working #128 13. Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts vs. High Flyers (5/23/85) - My working #146 14. Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts vs. Da Crusher & Baron Von Raschke (6/13/85) - My Absolutely, without a doubt #150. I will listen to the next one tomorrow.

I think you guys should do a podcast of Johnny watching Highlander. I'm glad you guys went there with the Martel hard head joke. Will is slowly learning to own it. I wish that Robinson stuck around and served as DeBeers' second. I'm not sure I've ever seen Heel Mulligan either. I have seen a great Billy Robinson pro wrestling USA promo where he's handling Kamala though. I think the Tonga Kid tag will be right in the middle for me. Second match I thought the beating on the heels went a little long. Nice to see Johnny finally give Greg some credit. I did like the sleeper war though. And the crazy post match was nuts. There should have been some team up of Fritz/Watts/Bruno/Verne and Jerry Jarrett vs the best that Adnan/Akbar/Blassie had to offer in the 80s. I love the Tonga/Superstar cage. The cage here is used to further the story, as the great equalizer. It's not just a bunch of meaningless violence and blood. Easily my favorite cage match on the set and one of my favorite ever. There is a Slaughter/Lanza vs Tonga/Superstar match that goes a long time, Will, but I'm not sure I saw it. Blackwell's selling is great too. Really, this is the only cage match so far on the set where everything really makes sense and everything really matters. It's a great mix of irrational hatred and blood with really strong face in peril segments. None of the previous cage matches even come close. You guys whining about the lack of heel blood is probably what I sound like when I get pissed off with late match shine legwork in a cage match I guess. This is my #3 btw, I love the first Slaughter AWA promo too where they talk about the Sheik and he doesn't realize they're not talking about Iron Sheik. "WHAT! There's ANOTHER Sheik?!" Imagine the rest of this set if they kept working Winnipeg. I'm with you guys on headlocks, and thought it was interesting here that the heel started off putting on the hold when most matches on the set had the face controlling early. Johnny being a Saito/Martel Apologist is funny. Who possibly listening to the Wrestling Party best of the 80s AWA PWO affiliated podcast is going to complain about guys working a hold instead of going for more ACTION. I'm with Kris on the fact that Martel NEVER hit that slingshot splash on the set. I've seen jobber matches where that was his actual finisher though so I felt better about it after seeing that. It's like Greg Gagne winning a match with a sleeper. Glad you loved Martel grabbing onto the mat too. That was awesome. Martel/Saito is my #20. Doesn't it suck we lost years of Saito's career? Martel is one of the best sellers of the 80s. No question.

I love when the dog walks on by at the end.

I got today's date wrong too. I had it right in my cheat sheet. I've asked Loss to fix. thanks.

You know, late 1987 is a bit of a black hole for me too, so I had no idea this match existed. I also didn't realize Simmons was around so early. Moreover, I didn't realize he was teaming with Gilbert like this. So the story here is that this match was supposed to be Sheepherders vs Fantastics. There had been a semi-final tournament match with Simmons/Gilbert vs the Sheepherders which is out there to watch too but I didn't have time to see it. Sheepherders won though. Then they went to New York to be the Bushwhackers and that meant Simmons/Gilbert end up in the finals. Parv would tell you that this was a very good thing indeed. To me, this is a match just full of stories: Simmons' strength vs the Fantastics' Speed Fantastics' experience vs Simmons inexperience and Simmons/Gilbert's inexperience as a team The Babyface vs Babyface nature of Gilbert vs Fantastics. Gilbert getting more and more frustrated when he gets outwrestled and his escalation into more complex moves and counters. The Armwork on Gilbert and Eddie's desperate attempt to escape. The impending time limit, which even has JR a little confused. and Eddie's pride that leads to the finish. That's a hell of a lot of stories even in a 27 minute match and some of them pay off better than others and they don't all dove tail completely. There's enough going on here though and just enough connect and just enough pay off that what we end up here is a really interesting match. They use Simmons very smartly. If anything the things I'm not sure he should have been doing like some of the chain wrestling attempts one can kayfabe chalk up to his inexperience. Everything after the injury is actively great.

I'm allergic to Von Erichs and crowds that want to sleep with them. Actually, I really loathed most of the Freebirds in AWA, so that this was pretty good really stood out to me. It's exactly the opposite effect of what you were feeling.

I remember really liking the Freebirds six man.

it's ironic that a canadian ring is white

I wasn't necessarily saying that in a negative way for that specific match. I know I zoned out during the bear hug while watching that alone, which might not have happened in a group setting. Me zoning out on a match doesn't necessarily mean that it was bad by any means, just that my brain went elsewhere.

Crusher Blackwell vs Blackjack Mulligan Bounty Match 1978 Mid-Atlantic Wrestling Best Mulligan match I've ever seen. Apparently the Baron had attacked Mulligan before the match and he's bandaged up. Blackwell is dressed like an 80s He-Man villain, a member of the Horde or something? A Halloween pumpkin themed supervillain? A giant oompa loompa? I have no idea. The story of this is real simple. Blackwell MAULS Mulligan with all sorts of crazy fat man offense including the heatseeker sideways diving headbutt. Mulligan fights back with heated punches with about 70% of the intensity he should have but he's selling so it's sort of okay. There's a ton of Blackwell honing in on the cut but it's hard to make out the color. Finish is Mulligan getting on the claw and the end fight over it, with Blackwell fighting back with body blows is just epic. Worth seeing.