rovert

I do. The situation is at the point that people don't want to talk about it on the board for fear of reprisal and are contacting me off the forum or via DM/PM. Some who largely disagree with me just advising me talking about it isn't worth it for the fear of reprisal and that some posters refuse to engage with opinions different to their own. That advice is ringing true.

Not being dismissive as the last two posts of the now locked thread will help a great deal. Other posters have already voiced how unfortunate the reaction in regards to the last two posts was. Oddly they don't feel comfortable voicing it here. I've given my feedback and despite some others agreeing with parts of it it was completely dismissed by others. Overall I like the forum a great deal. This isn't one of those times.

Some others were saying the same thing to me on Twitter the past two hours. I didn't know what they were referring to specifically but I do now. The situation makes my point for me perfectly. This isn't even what I said and I was more than clear in making my point(s): http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28985-split-topic-todays-wrestling-vs-wrestling-from-the-past-from-lawler-gwe-thread/page-10&do=findComment&comment=5629579 We've gone into the realm deliberately misquoting people game which is pretty sad. At least directly reply to the points I made.

Dismissing what I and others have to say as just "whining" kind of proves my point here. If you aren't receptive to what I have posted which was offered with a reasonable degree of substantiation then whatever. I expected this reception from the outset. I won't quote your whole post for space reasons, Loss. But like I said I don't have much of an issue in general with the board, you or the standard of moderation. You can maybe talk sense to Will if he goes off on one. But you can't moderate Matt D following me around on DVDR and making lame Irish jokes, derailing threads and getting others to do the same thing and so on. All because I said someone was respected in their field by their peers. Seriously come on. I'd rather not engage in a project that involves such a person. As well as few others of that ilk as the debates won't be good natured, sincere or without fallout. I know you have made strides to shape it better AND you told me off for using generalities but a lot of the time the board is/was a place that's only open minded within it's own world only. That's fine and at the end of day it is only Wrestling (just a bit of fun) and I will still enjoy reading PWO. It don't want to be redundant in the points I am making or inadvertently insulting to you Loss while making them.

For reasons already stated at length and like I said I will reconsider.

I give my opinions all the time across internet other people call me over opinionated and a know it all. As Nintenologic says Will jumped down by throat. I saw the same thing happen before and I decided it wasn't worth time. Something that proved correct as Will made a separate thread goading me into replying. I wasn't cowering in fear. Although the idea he was jumping down my throat and him being a mod is intimidating. As I like it here and don't want to be banned from here I decided to back off. Not mention Matt D being Matt D and rzombies odd homophobic language adding a whole bunch of weirdness to the thread. I take your point but I was primarily talking about when they advertise or link to their site.

Feel free to disagree but don't play into the close mindedness point by making it sound like I am talking to a wall. I felt I was being redundant in the points I was making and you come out with this statement. Cringe.

You are a fair man for giving them the benefit of the doubt but in the link that Jerry posted for example: http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=94292 The WrestlingKo forum wasn't linked to. You also had threads like this there: http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/ar/t4271.htm WKO had some plus points like it was a place to discuss Lucha for English speakers and offshoots so to speak like the Segunda Caida blog and podcast but ultimately they are/were really childish, close minded and insecure people. While Alan and Rob are extremely well like by the Wrestling Community and have really gone on to do things.

I wouldn't argue those places are havens for great Wrestling discussion. Which begs the question why people from WKO would post on similar forums across the internet to get a reaction? I never got the sense they were soliciting members or out to create productive discussion on the particular forum they were posting on. I am glad places like Voices of Wrestling don't do that. They are far more positive, inclusive and interactive. Just look at VOW's Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame coverage.

I am not the one hounding people across forums here posting bizarre anti-Irish slurs like Matt D was and dismissing my opinion just because Fergal and myself share the same nationality. Also it isnt the unfriendliness necessarily it is the undercurrent of close mindedness to modern indie Wrestling (and Japanese Wrestling.) I hope the Greatest Ever is an actual attempt at not doing a "PWO representative" poll and not something that is widely considered a farce like the WKO list was/is. Maybe I should take a serious second look at the Greatest Ever subforum and listen to project podcast. But given some of the players involved and some of the early nominees I have justifiable reservations.

It isn't just me though who saw the list as a farce. That's the way the majority of people viewing the list would received it online when whomever from the WKO forum went round posting it on various forums for a trolling purpose which was an odd practice as it kind of devalued the list. It was also a list that like half a dozen people voted on - hardly empirical who hid away in a little online treehouse which took pot shots at the aforementioned Alan4L and Rob Naylor for having different opinions and ultimately more influential opinions than them. A forum so exclusionary it has died off pretty much completely.

I don't mind not knowing about it/him and I could buy a North American having a blind spot but it was Will and Matt D's out of dismissal that it could even be the case that he was extremely respected. No idea what a definitive source is either. But again there's a huge article in this (and soon to be last month's)Fighting Spirit Magazine all about his positive qualities. He is honestly all things to all people. But this isn't about Devitt nor do I want to be redundant. It is just about the undercurrent of close mindedness and intimidation here. I know two others who aren't bothering with the Greatest Ever for that reason. Again if Jimmy Jacobs is the PWO representative of modern indies then well lol.

Look at the conduct in regards to that Devitt thread in that New Japan thread - Devitt who has been the talk of the town all year since that thread happened by the week. I don't want to get into spoilers but just look at all the interest in him the past few days. As concrete1992 said the modern indies thread died off quickly here. JerryVonKramer need a seemingly endless of reasons to watch one match. There's a problem here with perception and discussion of modern indie Wrestling whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You don't have to remember I posted the link and I was being attacked. My very simple statement lead to Matt D hounding me on other forums for months.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here. It isn't perceived though it is an actuality. The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either. This was not a question of how close minded Rovert is? You made a generalization about the DVDVR board as a whole and lumped this one into it by association. Have you watched more Jimmy Jacobs matches more than me this year? Good possibility, although I have seen all of his ROH output. Saying fairly definitively you have watched more is a close minded, attitudinal stance. Beyond those confines, stating your personal habits against an statement you started against an entire community is not a verifiable defense. All I was bringing to your attention was that you lambast one choice as being bizarre and off the beaten path and then say the same source is closeminded two paragraphs later. Which is it? Can't it be both with Jimmy Jacobs being a rare exception? I like PWO a lot and I think Greatest Wrestler Ever is good idea as it is a bit of fun and stimulates discussion on a message board. But it will be hardly held as definitive (relatively) given the points I and others have already made. It won't be the farce the WKO is but the scope in terms of the range of Wrestlers will be far more narrower than it should be. With the winner derived from an already pre-approved list of PWO favorites.

It has been mocked as this lower form of Wrestling for years. I remember people mocking people like Alan4L and Rob Naylor to the point of complete dismissal for liking guys who are now really and truly informing WWE's in ring product.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here. It isn't perceived though it is an actuality. The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

This isn't helpful either, because it's a huge generalization and untrue. The GOAT nomination thread is already full of guys who made their bones on the recent indy scene. They are mostly bizarre nonsense picks like Jimmy Jacobs though. Who despite being in a prominent faction in nearly every Indy promotion in North America never has matches that anyone in realistic terms talks about. Outside of the ROH Pursuit: Night 1 where Jimmy admirably busted a gut to keep up with Adam Cole I don't remember a match of his in recent memory that has gotten any kind of talk. Jacobs seems like a nice guy and his character work from mid to late 00s held up really well when I rewatched it last year but come on. What I said was a generalisation but it is more of an accurate one than not. DVDR was once an open minded and influential place. Now mostly it is mostly Raw watchers and shitting on Indie workers as they didn't work for Jim Crockett. Someone went full Matt D on me recently on DVDR due to me posting that Sami Zayn/El Generico is an all time great worker on the basis he has a name among fans and in the industry of legitimately never having a bad match. Realistically there's probably two matches. He is another guy who has travelled the world, learnt, adapted and got over. The poster then followed me around from thread to thread.

GENERALLY speaking the PWO and DVDR's perception of modern Indy Wrestling seems to begin and end with DaveyRichards.gif .

There are differences for sure, and both have advantages & disadvantages. I'm not knocking the territories at all. What i'm trying to get across, is the old territories & the indie scene aren't as different as some people may think. Look at Scott Hall, Ricky Steamboat and Ted DiBiase Sr. among others they all wanted their sons to travel the World before joining the WWE system.

So your bizarre trolling was bizarre trolling? I post pretty straight if not entirely straight on this forum but you decided to troll to prove a wacky point? Right. That's really crazy. Leave that stuff to the bitchy mongs on DVDR, Matt D. Wouldn't nominate him for the Greatest Wrestler Ever by a long shot but Devitt is extremely respected in the industry. Read in the piece in the latest Fighting Spirit Magazine. His professionalism in all facets Pro Wrestling and being a faithful friend and trainer are really lauded. He's a wise head that's it.

That is why I don't put much effort in here that something as a basic as saying Devitt is extremely well respected in the industry - which he is and there's three pages about it in this month's Fighting Spirit Magazine with Wrestlers from all over the World being quoted about Fergal's list of positive qualities gets an utterly bizarre reaction from people like Will and Matt D: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/21572-wrestle-kingdom-8/ Matt D bizarrely trolls other places about it still and makes weird anti-Irish posts on the basis of it. This place as valuable as it is can at times be excessively uninviting and often just out of touch.

Vince is a 70 year old CEO and in the eyes of shareholders Hunter & Stephanie have very limited experience and qualifications for high level Corporate stewardship.

I've only gotten to Kushida vs Taguchi on that show but this ***** came out of left field. Haven't seen anyone else with that rating or a ground swell contacting Dave telling him it was *****. Most reviews had it at ****.

Seems like a total rehash of his book. Can't talk about TNA legally.

My view of Titus is very similar to Bill and W2BTD but he is 37 and looked out of his depth on NXT last week both verbally and in the ring.