El-P Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hey, Billy Jack Haynes doing an executionner gimmick, complete with JTTS hood and an axe ! And he's billed from France ! No wonder the poor guy snapped, his career went south so bad after he left his territory. WCW was really into gimmickization period with Black Blood, Johnny B. Badd, Big Josh, Diamond Stud to an extent. Failed attempt at trying to compete with WWF on their own turf, while this era was dying anyway. Can't wait for Van Hammer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Clash 15 was a rush job if I even saw one, and it totally ruined some potential really good matches. Arn & Barry vs Pillman & Gigante had a really fun match on TV but this was settled in like 2 minutes with Pillman "leaving" WCW just being an afterthought. Luger vs Muta could have been really good but again, Luger beat Muta in record time, which was both odd and disapointing. Even Flair vs Eaton was ampered by the 2/3 falls stipulation which doesn't work when you don't have more than 30 minutes to spend. Too bad because Eaton was fantastic again, and it coumd have developped into a great match, but the ending came too quick and was anticlimatic to boot. The only match which didn't suffer too much was Steiners vs Chono & Hase, not as spot heavy as the Dome match (unsurprising with Chono) but more solid. Way too many squashes matches, but I guess the idea was to introduce the new characters like Diamond Studd, Steve Austin and.... Oz. I forgot how ridiculous Oz's entrance was. They should bring the gimmick back to feud with Taker at Mania. Man, how did that dwidget 19 years old Jason Hervey got to date a 29 years old Missy Hyatt in the prime of her hotness ? Missy was a milf before the acronym existed. The Danger Zone with Hervey was really bad, although I get a kick out of Paul E. smashing his vintage portable phone on the backs of annoying people. It sure wouldn't have the same effet with an Iphone. The strangest segment, and really representative of the new, more cartoony direction the company was going toward, was PN News dancing with Salt'n Pepa, interrupted by Johnny B. Badd. There's a feud I want to see. Hat's off to WCW for being rather current as far as pop culture goes though, as Salt'n Pepa were in their "prime" in 91, as opposed to when WWF hired them in 1995 when they were already a thing of the past. PN NEws's ring attire is one of the most color offensive I've seen. I know this was the early 90's, but man, that bright fluorescent green with purple. Looks like an overweight Constructicon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Interesting fact: Eaton trained hard for weeks for that match and wanted to have the best match of his life. Then, they started the match with 14 minutes of air time left. I'm not sure what happened on that show. I think they crammed too much in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Interesting fact: Eaton trained hard for weeks for that match and wanted to have the best match of his life. Yeah, coming in he was in the best shape of his life. And Eaton was great in the match, but 14 minutes for a 2/3 falls match is ridiculous. Plus it had no heat, no one thought Eaton would win the title. Then, they started the match with 14 minutes of air time left. I'm not sure what happened on that show. I think they crammed too much in. Yeah, it was ridiculous. Way too many matches, way too many angles. Most of which were good on paper, which makes it even more frustrating. The Rickin Morton joigning the York Foundation, then arguing with Robert, then keeping Hughes & Taylor from jumping, then punching Robert was cringeworthy. They could have spread this on two or three good weeks of TV. And the Brian Pillman stuff was embarrassing. Loser leaves town match in 2 minutes, Pillman gone clean. He got such a raw deal depsite working his ass off for two years and getting over. No wonder his push in 95 was too little too late. Pillman should have been pushed to the top way sooner, he was fresh. Really, it felt like a Vince Russo booked show in that matcehs were cut ridiculously short, we go from an angle to another without having the time to digest anything, they also put squash matches that had no place there, including a Steve Austin squash without any intro (which is too bad since it was the first time Lady Blossom appeared. Man... Lady Blossom...). Very frustrating booking when you got a lot of really good match lined up. It's obvious watching that show that the promotion was treading waters on top. Getting Murdoch & Slater to feud with the Steiners wasn't hot. Getting back to Luger vs Flair at this point when things have really cooled off since early 90 was sad already for Luger... Little did he know... Watching 2 years and a half of NWA/WCW, there's no doubt in my mind that Luger career during this time murders Sting's in term of delivering in big matches. Luger has a number of excellent to great matches (the Muta one could have been excellent, it just needed the time) over this timespan, while Sting has zilch. Oh yeah, he was in the Wargames. Luger has been much better than Sting during this entire period, on every level. I haven't seen a really strong performance from Sting yet. The only time I was midly impressed was how he managed to work with an inept Sid. That was pretty good. Outside of that, Sting has lost quite a bit of stock with me (not that I was a big fan) while Luger has gained a lot. I may take a little break from WCW at the end of June. I feel the burn out coming. Flair's leaving, it's a good time to pause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Started WCW 92, some good shit to kick things off. 1/4/92 Saturday Night was great at building the upcoming Clash and every segment had a purpose. Starts out recapping a Dangerous Alliance beat down on Bagwell & Sting from the previous week leading into Rude & Dangerously coming out. Paul threatens to make Sting into the new Magnum TA only his tragedy won't be accidental. Rude then squashes a jobber but that's only an excuse for Steamboat to come out and cut a promo on comentary. Seems I joined things right in the middle of the angle w him & Madusa. He says him & Dustin got Sting's back and if Rude want's to step up he'll be glad to beat his ass...not in those words . Larry Zbysko squashes Larry Santo which is just an excuse for Ross to hype the Larry/Rude vs Sting/Steamboat Clash match. Really refreshing to see anouncers ignoring the action but still keep the focus on the star involved, so many times today they'll ignore a match and talk about random shit or someone elses match making the guys in the ring look like insignificant chumps. Larry Z gives Larry S a brainbuster post match causing him to be taken out on a stretcher and just to be a dick Zybysko tips the stretcher over on his way out. Terry Taylor comes out to kill a jobber, cool superfly spash & gut wrench powerbomb from Taylor neither of which I would have exspected him to bust out. Match is just an excuse to have Taylor quit the York Foundation post match saying he wants to go it alone, smashing York's computer and for some odd reason telling the fans to screw off too. Weird since if they're gonna keep him heel why not stay w the Foundation? God, I was 8 when I first saw this and haven't seen it since until now but I still remember the exact angle that set this up with the computer giving Taylor bad advice and York getting pissy he wouldn't listen. Did not recall the part whear York basically promises to fuck him if he'll stay in the group however, surprisingly went over my young head. As a random aside, i'd forgotten hot hot Terri was even back then, damn. Sad I jumped in right as they're breaking up as I was actually looking forward to revisiting the York Foundation, makes me wanna go track down the 91 footage for that. Anyways, moving on Van Hammer squashes a jobber named Paul Lee which has to be some weird rib on Heyman. Cactus Jack's out for commentary to hype the Falls Count Anywhear match. He runs in for a short brawl post match and they do a rolling DDT spot down the stairs which sounds cooler on paper then it was in execution. Amused that Foley looks nearly identical today as he did back then right down to the sweats, flannel & tennis shoes. Gotta respect that. Mr Hughes squashes two scrubs in a handicap match while Ross hypes up his newly formed team w Vader who's gonna be fighting the Steiners at the Clash. Taped Sting promo vowing to put Rude in a cast of his own. WCW Magazine report w Bischoff airing highlights of the Pillman/Liger LW Title change from what looks like a house show. Main event is the awesome Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson match that's on the 92 yearbook set or atleas the first 20 mins of it. They run out of tv time so you've gotta tune into World Wide to see the rest. 1/5/92 World Wide starts off w a short in studio segment w Tony Schiavone & Missy Hyatt. Scared for a second thinking they were gonna have Missy on the whole show as having heard her do comentary before she's one of the worst in history but thankfully they only have her on for a few mins in between matches while Tony calls things solo. The finish to Arn/Dustin was pretty great w it turning into a big chaotic brawl w Dustin/Steamboat/Windham/Simmons vs Arn/Larry/Austin/Bobby. Rest of the show goes downhill from thear. Cactus vs Arachniman sucks, Bagwell vs a jobber sucks worse. Never thought about this before but was the reason they spent so much freakin time hyping that Bagwell was from Sprayberry Highscool a rib to make fun of him for not going to college? I don't actually know that but come on, he's the only guy in the entire history of wrestling to get his HIGH SCHOOL credentials hyped up, WTF? Maybe they just liked saying Sprayberry? It's here I notice that Tony calling things solo = so not as good as Ross calling things solo. Don't want to be too hard on Schiavone here tho since he was still a pretty great anouncer during this time frame and on this show he had crap material to work with. Main event is Austin/Eaton vs Big Josh/Van Hammer which completes the trifecta of suck because they had the bright idea of having Hammer work 85% of the match. Only good thing that made it somewhat bearable was Madusa spazzing out at ringside and running aorund a million miles an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 As a random aside, i'd forgotten hot hot Terri was even back then, damn. Sad I jumped in right as they're breaking up as I was actually looking forward to revisiting the York Foundation, makes me wanna go track down the 91 footage for that. The York Foundation is my favourite part of 1991 thus far. Makes the undercard fun no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Main event is the awesome Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson match that's on the 92 yearbook set or atleas the first 20 mins of it. They run out of tv time so you've gotta tune into World Wide to see the rest. The yearbook has the other part spliced together with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Oh, and Mark Mero debuts as Johnny B. Badd. Don't sue me, I enjoy it. Why has this guy always had so much heat anyway? He's not a legend of the ring or anything, but he always seemed fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Oh, and Mark Mero debuts as Johnny B. Badd. Don't sue me, I enjoy it. Why has this guy always had so much heat anyway? He's not a legend of the ring or anything, but he always seemed fine to me. I think we talked about it before. Fat contract from the get go. First garanteed contract from WWF when he jumped. Sable. Laying down his match beforehand (yeah, like it would seem like an issue nowadays). I don't care, I always like Mero, he developped into a good worker over the years. And he comes off as a really cool and likeable guy in interviews. Man, those Desperados videos are brutal. BRUTAL. Long. Not funny. Not going anywhere. Boring. Painfull. LONG. No wonder watching this shit drove Hansen away (if the urban legend is true). What a waste of Mantell. He does what he can, but the material is just rotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Week 2 Saturday Night 1/11/1992 Austin vs Bagwell in a 10 minute time limit non tv title match was decent enough. Set up for this is a little head scratching. Apparently a few weeks back when Bagwell got jumped it was because the DA offered him a tv title match and he turned it down saying he wasn't ready so now we get this match just to see if he can last the full 10 mins which he does. They're heavily pushing that Bagwell is Sting's protege which I have no memory of but I guess that does explain why 4 years later Schivaone name droped that those 2 were good buddies when Bagwell got taken out during the infamous NWO backstage assault. The Steiners, Vader, Johnny B Badd & Terry Taylor all get squashes which combined didn't last as long as Austin vs Bagwell. Funny in hindsight to see how much Bobby Roode riped off Taylor later on in TNA for a while. I know Taylor gave him one of his old robes and he was doing a similar gimmick but shit, Bobby even stole his hair cut. They show highlights of Vader vs El Gigante from New Japan at the dome whear Vader shoots off his helmet in Gigante's eyes. Kinda want to track down that match now out of curiosity. Mid show we get a Cactus/Abby vs Z-Man/Pillman tag which is really fun. Post match Cactus accidently whacks Abby with that shrunken head cane he used to carry around that leads to them brawling with each other. Sigh, reason #2 i'm gonna have track down 91 WCW as I was also really looking forward to seeing their team and they're allready breaking up. Main event is the Arn, Larry & Rude vs Simmons, Dustin & Steamboat match that's also on the yearbook. Really good tv match, the kind that made this era so great as you could just throw any combination of the Dangerous Alliance out thear vs the top babyfaces and be guaranteed quality which they'd do on a weekly basis. I think this being some of the first wrestling I was ever exsposed to (became a fan in mid - late 91) is why faction warfare has always been my favorite style of wrestling. I vaugely recall someone earlier in this thread or elsewhear on the board bringing up how overused the Bobby Eaton runs in to leg drop a guy as he's going for a pin finish was and it's been 3 shows in a row whear hear in 92 whear they've done it so yeah they loved the heck out of that one. World Wide 1/12/1992 Much better show then last week. Really good Steamboat vs Eaton match to start the show that ends in your usuall DA run in brawl. Big Josh squash was decent enough for a 1 min match. Austin & Madusa cut a pretty good promo, they go all over the place focusing on upcoming matches vs The Steiners, the tag at the Clash and the Steamboat/Rude/Madusa angle but they keep it all tied together well enough. Speaking of Madusa, Missy Hyatt each week is constantly running her down which is allready getting annoying. Had they actually had any altercation yet byt this point? Missy also gets in a line about running off all of Jason Hervey's ex girlfriends which was amusing but makes no sense unless you actually knew they were dating. Main event is Austin vs Hammer for the TV title, don't know what we did to deserve 2 weeks of Hammer main events but this actually wasn't too bad by his standards. They kept things really simple & formulaic and don't go too long so not much of a chance for Hammer to be exsposed. I gotta say, until he actually gets in the ring, Hammer is a pretty cool lookin dude, I can see why he somewhat got over and they were high on him for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 They show highlights of Vader vs El Gigante from New Japan at the dome whear Vader shoots off his helmet in Gigante's eyes. Kinda want to track down that match now out of curiosity. I think it's on the latest Schneider Comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 The fun part about WCW in mid 91 is trying to figure out what the hell they SHOULD have done with everyone given the roster. My favorite thought is a York Foundation vs Sting feud for the US title, probably with them adding Zenk to the Yorks too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Thomas Zenk! The guy is such a natural heel that it's weird that he was always a babyface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I don't see the natural heel charisma of Tom Zenk to be honest. He was a typical 80's white meat smiling babyface. He was not overly charismatic anyway, but good looking enough and well built to get cheered. I don't see the heel in Tom Zenk. WCW had so many heels anyway at this time, the babyface contingent was not overly strong nor fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Have you heard him on Wrestling Observer Live? That's the guy who could have become a star. He never showed that on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Have you heard him on Wrestling Observer Live? That's the guy who could have become a star. He never showed that on TV. I didn't hear him, but I remember his insane articles on his website. Well, if you refer to that, yeah, I understand. Watching him in 91, there was no way to even think he had this venom in him. Whatever happened with him anyway ? All of a sudden all his comments disapeared from his website, and he never said one more word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think WWE started threatening legal action when he was making posts about them violating laws in how they bought WCW for a reduced price when other potential buyers were willing to pay more. But the Time Warner employee who negotiated the sale was a former WWF employee. Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ok, that's what I thought. It's too bad, he was hilarious. Still want him to show up in a Shoot Interview, but I guess he can't do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I remember in one of his last appearances on the show Zenk was clearly reading one of his "rants" off of a script. It was so obvious and Dave wasn't pleased. And of course you had that weird story where Stephanie was raped in a bar or something. He was great on the show until it started becoming forced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Zenk used to make sock accounts on I believe it was the old Kayfabe memories board and rant about how the Can Ams smoked Strike Force, How Zenk smoked Arn and Flair as workers. How him and Pillman were the main event when it came to the ladies while Arn and Flair were opening act. Just total doucebag stuff. Then he would create another sock account and agree with everything he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, maybe it's best that he remain silent after all. Rick Martel's shoot interview makes Zenk come off like a complete douchebag, and really Martel seems like a really honest and humble guy during the whole interview, so I'm inclined to believe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Week 3 is all about the awesomeness of Cactus Jack & his feud with Abdullah. On the 1/18 Saturday Night we get a really good promo from Cactus talking about how him & Abby made up from the week before and were soul mates all while Abby stands next to him eating a picture of Cactus Jack and feeding him the left over bits while he tries to talk. Leads to Cactus Jack & Abdullah The Butcher vs Brad Armstrong & The Z Man in a short but wild match. Abby takes the monkey flip on the floor from Armstrong in one highlight early on. Jack & Abby win but Z man wants more so does a giant out of controll over the top rope dive onto Cactus which is pretty nuts for 92 WCW. Instead of helping Jack Abby runs over and attacks Cactus despite having had no problems in this match and getting along fine, Abby's insane so I buy it. Crowd loses their shit cheering for Abby as they get into a weapon swinging brawl outside. 1/19 Main Event Cactus cuts promo, solo this time on the Ross Report saying they'd again made up and everything was gonna be okay because as long as their were still Ron Simmons & Stings of the world to hurt & cripple him & Abby would forever be bonded. In the main event of Main Event Cactus & Ron have a pretty fun match that ends with Larry Zybysko running in to cost Simmons the match and Abby coming to the rescue. Post match Abby gives Cactus a running shoulder block that sends him falling down a flight of stairs. I checked future listings and other then a few Cactus vs Abby tags nothing comes of all this as Abby seems to have split in Feb or March which sucks because he could have gotten over huge as a face. Speaking of shit that sucks, Arn & Eaton win the tag belts off Steamboat & Rhodes in a 30 minute 2/3 falls match that was apparently so great that ubber fuckin heel & Dangerous Alliance member Arn Anderson felt the need to come on TV and say he wished he could cut the tag belts in half and give them to Steamboat & Rhodes because "in a match like that there are no losers". WCW being WCW couldn't wait to have this match at the big January Clash of the Champions show they'd been pusing all month or the big Superbrawll II PPV in Feb, nope, they OF COURSE did it on an untelivised house show. And Speaking of Superbrawll, in another WCW being WCW move, they haven't had Luger on TV all month (WTF is the story with that BTW?) but are hyping the big anouncement of his who his next title defense will be against for the Clash only they allready aired freakin commercials weeks earlier giving away that it was gonna be Sting vs Luger at the PPV. Anyways, other highlights of this week saw a surprisingly decent PN News vs Mr Hughes match on Saturday Night. Really enjoyable in a fat guy slugfest sorta way. Only goes a few mins as Vader comes in to help Hughes for the DQ but you come away wishing they'd gotten more time. Larry Zybysko wrestled Ron Simmons which was ok but more notable because I got a kick out of Madusa randomly telling the camera she could out Rap Simmons and Ross on commentary claiming that while Ron is a gentleman he wouldn't hesitate to smack around Madusa if she got in his way. Main event the Austin/Eaton vs Sting/Bagwell tag that's also on the 92 set. Really dug Bagwell getting whiped while Sting is held in the corner and made to watch by the rest of the DA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Speaking of shit that sucks, Arn & Eaton win the tag belts off Steamboat & Rhodes in a 30 minute 2/3 falls match that was apparently so great that ubber fuckin heel & Dangerous Alliance member Arn Anderson felt the need to come on TV and say he wished he could cut the tag belts in half and give them to Steamboat & Rhodes because "in a match like that there are no losers". I remember thinking that was outstanding. I love it when heels can say stuff like that, but still come across as heels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Anyone remember when it was WCW switched over to using the custom made entrance music? Mr Bang Bang, They Call Him the Natural, Simply Ravishing, Here Come's Johnny B Badd, Don't Step to Ron, etc... Watching early 92 stuff the songs they're using now and overall producion are the dirt worst so it'll be a welcome upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Theme music was an area that I always felt WCW suffered as time went on. The way they would mic their ring on Nitro sounded cooler than on Raw somehow, but in theme music they mostly sucked wind past a small handful (n.W.o. theme, Goldberg). I am not really a big nostalgia guy for the WWF/E's in house themes, but at least they all followed a formula that made the worker instantly identifiable. Song opens with either a quote or a sound effect specific to the worker, followed by a simple 12-bar thing you could identify. A lot of WCW stuff sounded exactly the same, and they never gave most of it enough volume to even tell it all apart. so many guys in that company just had "generic rock band thing" as an entrance. It was a weird area the WWF kicked their ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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