WCW ongoing thread

[Matt D]

Gilbert always projected this "Hey, I'm one of you!" vibe as a babyface.

[Ricky Jackson]

A moment of silence in memory of the departed...

[Mad Dog]

Ricky Steamboat's family man gimmick really feels forced and out of date for this show. It makes him feel kind of lame more than a guy to get behind.

 

The announcers are really trying to sell the Road Warriors as heels but the fans just aren't buying it. I don't really see what they're trying to accomplish here. The Warriors act exactly the same as they did as faces. The fans loved the Warriors for being a couple of brutal ass-kickers. They're still a couple of brutal ass-kickers.

[El-P]

GAB 91 is objectively one of the worst PPV I've seen. The only matches to save are Morton vs Gibson, which was good but had a shit finish, Young Pistols & Dustin vs Fabulous Freebirds which was decent. Barry Windham vs Lex Luger was subpar for a match between those two, and it was doomed from the get-go, as the audience just didn't want to see this match, and no-one got the fact Luger turned heel. Poor Luger, it was to be his big night, already one year too late, and Flair leaving fucked him pretty good. The heel turn didn't work at all. The rest of the card was passable (Diamond Stud vs Z-Man, Sting vs Nikita) to fucking horrible (Oz vs Simmons, Pillman as the Yellow Dog vs Johnny B. Badd, scaffold match). The most enjoyable thing to me was to see One Man Gang almost get a decent match out of El Gigante, ponder that for a minute. Considering what he had to work with, Gang was pretty much the standout worker of the night.

[Matt D]

As a kid the only wrestling tape I had was GAB 91, and it cut off during Sting vs Nikita.

 

That said I've always found Lex vs Windham interesting because it's a cage match without any real hate. There are barely heel/face distinctions. It's mainly there as a prop for them to use.

[Jingus]

The most enjoyable thing to me was to see One Man Gang almost get a decent match out of El Gigante, ponder that for a minute. Considering what he had to work with, Gang was pretty much the standout worker of the night.

Huh?

 

Maybe I'm not remembering it right...

 

(goes to Youtube, watches match)

 

The spots with the midgets at the beginning are just sad. Gang looks like he's playing with them and cooperating, not actually trying to snatch up the little bastards. Gang takes a few nice bumps, but his idea of "selling" seems to be "just walk/stand around with an angry expression and no body language indicating any sort of pain". Two minutes into the match, he already looks blown up, sucking wind pretty hard. Okay, now he's finally selling, by making the exact same "OHHHH!" exclamation every time Gigante hits him. He almost loses his balance setting up for a clothesline off the middle turnbuckle, although he does hit the move nicely; trickier than it sounds, considering that Gigante remained standing and Gang sort of had to fly off to the side after making contact. Funny moment where Kevin Sullivan is trying to grab Gigante from the outside but the big guy either doesn't understand or disagrees, and Ross and Schiavone on commentary do a surprisingly decent job of both mocking and covering it. Aaaaand now it's work-the-leg time, and both Gigante and the match lay down and die for a little while.

 

(Watching Gigante sell, he's actually not horrible at it. He's certainly trying, with facial expressions and body language and vocalizations. And he was actually more coordinated and less clumsy than, say, Great Khali is; when Gigante walks around, it looks more like the movements of a normal guy and less like a disproportionate freak of nature. Too bad he never had any instinct for wrestling, and especially too bad that he never had a really good company in charge of him; I can imagine plenty of ways they could've smoke-&-mirrors'd this guy into some halfway watchable matches.)

 

Back to the match in question: OMG has completely abandoned the work-the-leg strategy. Uh. Why? It was working, and Gigante was completely unable to mount a counterattack while Gang was destroying his leg. Why just stop doing that, and change to random punches and stomps to the head & torso instead? I know the real reason is "we gotta get this big doofus back on his feet for the finish", but c'mon, provide a reason why Gang would stop using a method of attack which is succeeding so well. On a spot where Gigante kicks out so hard that it knocks Gang out of the ring, OMG reaches up to grab the rope while the ref is still counting and the whole thing looks rather awkward. He's still blown up, btw, moving around sluggishly.

 

Oof, bad moment where Gang goes up top and Gigante forgets for a moment that he's supposed to toss the guy off. (Really, you're doing a patented Flair spot on this show?) After they finally do the move Gang doesn't even sell getting slammed off the top, he stands right back up. Heh, cute bit where Gigante is walking near Sullivan on the ramp and makes him flinch just for the hell of it. Gigante goes for a double-noggin-knocker on the heels, but Sullivan's hands are so far up that you can hear JR cringe as he calls "their heads... cracked together...". Weird finish where Gang pulls out a massive handful of powder right in front of the ref, but Gigante kicks it into his face and gets the pin.

 

What was so great about Akeem's performance here? His bumps were nice and snappy, and that one flying clothesline was pretty cool, but everything else he did was fairly tepid "brawling" with questionable psychology while gasping for air.

[El-P]

Well, after watching so many horrible and nightmarish stuff on that card, I was expecting another huge turd with this match, and watching Gang bump really well for Gigante, actually do some logical stuff like attacking the knee for a while, deliver a flying clothesline that looked really good (Kane still hasn't figured it out) made me enjoy this match way more than I should have. Hey, I never said he had a good match with El Gigante, I said almost got a decent match. Gotta love the get thrown out of the top rope spot when the audience is asking for Flair. The knee attack was nice for a few shots, but you don't want OMG and El Gigante work submissions on the mat, do you ? Like you said, the real reason was kill some time off before Gigante gets back to his feet. OMG always looked sluggish, it's part of his monster appeal. I don't expect him to run around the ring.

Anyway, my comment was half-jokingly written, of course Ricky Morton was the best worker on the show and had the best match (which was nothing special), but with everyone either booked in shitty stipulation matches (Austin, Taylor, Eaton, Arn) or underperforming (Windham, Pillman), Gang provided the most surprisingly entertaining performances of the night, as Gigante is usually FF material only. Expection and context played an important role I guess.

[ohtani's jacket]

Someone finally uploaded the Rick Rude vs. Eric Watts match in full. Probably not one of the greatest matches in WCW history as the clipped version had me thinking, but a quality piece of TV nonetheless and a must watch for Rude fans. The rematch from a week later has also been uploaded but it doesn't have the same dynamic. What it does prove, however, is how much better Jesse was at getting Watts over than JR.

[Dylan Waco]

been waiting on that forever. You got the link OJ?

[ohtani's jacket]

WCW Worldwide 12/5/92 -- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhq9az_er...rick-rude_sport

WCW Saturday Night 12/26/92 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJiC8-X0wb0

[rzombie1988]

I'm working on WCW SN 1-26-1991. The highlight of this show is the appearance of Gangsta Arn Anderson. Arn Anderson and Barry Windham walk around a junk yard carrying sledgehammers, talking about how the horsemen are the baddest gang and how they are going to destroy the Renegade Warriors. Gotta love Arn rocking the backwards hat. Also a pretty good Rip Rogers vs Ricky Morton match on here and overall great commentary with Paul E and JR.

 

 

The original Boys N Tha Hood

[Mad Dog]

Nice, Gangrel sighting as he's doing job duty for Abdullah in 1989.

[Victator]

http://drvictatorpresents.blogspot.com/201...e.html?spref=fb I think this is the best example of why Bossman and Rude were great. In one match Bossman plays fired up monster face and later as a underdog working from the bottom to equal effect.

 

Rude plays heel in peril perfectly. People hate him so much, they eat up him getting his ass kicked. Then he gets on offense and you buy him beating down Bossman and you are desperate to see him lose.

 

Best thing is a clean finish in the center of the ring. Too bad the ppv rematch was not as good.

[Mad Dog]

Is there any reason that Butch Reed had the same managers as the Horsemen but was never really associated with Flair and Windham in 89? It's kind of weird to watch. He seems like he would've been a natural fit for them.

[El-P]

Is there any reason that Butch Reed had the same managers as the Horsemen but was never really associated with Flair and Windham in 89? It's kind of weird to watch. He seems like he would've been a natural fit for them.

He was black ?

Just a wild guess. Yeah, Reed as a Horseman in 90 instead of Sid would have been all kind of good. Perfect fit.

[Victator]

I believe they were going to have Reed and Kendall Windham join the Horsemen in early 89, but decided to abandon the concept of the Horsemen.

[KB8]

Man, Butch Reed as a Horseman is basically a pro-wrestling dream scenario for me.

[rzombie1988]

While we are talking about Reed, why did they break up Doom? To push Ron?

 

I'm up to march 1991 with WCW Saturday Night. I like it but the company had way too much going on at the time. The 4 tv shows(SN, WW, Power Hour, Main Event) are all like 4 different worlds. You could watch SN and not even know that some people are in the company. They just have way too many people. They also had just done Wrestlewar 1991 and while it was a great show, they really weren't fully prepared for it. Alot of matches weren't pushed much, especially the Doom/Freebirds title switch match. DDP is also nowhere to be seen as is Teddy Long.

 

The announcers of WCW were pretty good around this time. JR was good, Paul E. was really good, Dusty is fun, Bob Caudle was fun and Missy well fulfills every woman stereotype ever. They also had Gordon and Lance Russell at this time. I haven't even heard Tony yet at this point.

 

The most over people at this time are Sid, Sting and Luger with Michael Hayes starting to catch up.

 

The best wrestlers on this so far are probably Arn and Brad Armstrong.

 

I'll keep on watching until I get bored, but so far after a month or so, I really cannot keep track of everyone(so many guys with random appearances) and everyone.

 

One thing I'd like to note is that WCW had a wide range of advertisers. I've seen ads for R&B cd's, Game Genie, Burger King, alka-seltzer, a sewing kit and some weird doo-wop cd commercial with the corniest white people you have ever seen. The point I'm trying to make is that you really don't see this nowadays. You might get a car commercial, maybe some kind of diet pill and maybe a movie.

[El-P]

While we are talking about Reed, why did they break up Doom? To push Ron?

Pretty much. As soon as Lex gets the belt and turns heel, the first challenger is Simmons, fresh off.... doing nothing of note after the Doom split.

 

Enforcers vs Young Pistols - WCW 91.08.03

The more I watch Zbyszko, the more I think he's underrated. Of course he stalled, but when he worked, he was really solid. Here it brings quite a bit to the table in term of movez actually. This match is both really good and really frustrating. Really good because you feel it will give time to developp, as they switch a few heel/face in peril dynamics before settling to the face in peril phase, and the work is, of course, super solid. Then the Enforcers begin to kill Tracy's right leg, and it builds and builds.... until the referee stops the match. With a hot tag and a nice finishing sequence, this would have been a very good to excellent match. As it is, it does a good job selling the Enforcers as a team that can fuck you up, but it's also the sign that the Pistols weren't going to be pushed much anymore. The new gimmick really killed their momentum. Plus it's not like Young Pistols sounded a lot less southern that the previous gimmick which the people loved. Too bad for Steve and Tracy. Don't know why Dusty didn't get behind them after being one of the few really hot act of 1990.

[El-P]

I knew Axl Rotten has a try out with WCW, I never knew he actually made TV. And didn't look very good. Was programmed to feud with PN News. That would have been some fun fat guy wrestling with horrible looks.

[El-P]

Watching the Van Hammer character and video in 1991, it's yet another sign of how much wrestling is usually totally outdated with pop culture. The Van Hammer character was a good 5-6 year out of date, surfing on Van Halen's popularity which peaked with the 1984 album. It's one of those occurence when you see that having rasslin' guys only in the office is pretty bad, because they have usually no idea of what's popular. It's not surprising that things click when they do catch up with the current pop culture. ECW did it to an extent (although Raven's grungy character came right as grunge was dying). WWF did it to an extent when you had Road Dog wearing South Park T-shirts and such. But overall, it's striking how far behind the wrestling world is.

[Matt D]

While we are talking about Reed, why did they break up Doom? To push Ron?

Pretty much. As soon as Lex gets the belt and turns heel, the first challenger is Simmons, fresh off.... doing nothing of note after the Doom split.

 

 

As a kid I was super impressed he beat Oz so easily.

[flyonthewall2983]

Watching the Van Hammer character and video in 1991, it's yet another sign of how much wrestling is usually totally outdated with pop culture. The Van Hammer character was a good 5-6 year out of date, surfing on Van Halen's popularity which peaked with the 1984 album. It's one of those occurence when you see that having rasslin' guys only in the office is pretty bad, because they have usually no idea of what's popular. It's not surprising that things click when they do catch up with the current pop culture. ECW did it to an extent (although Raven's grungy character came right as grunge was dying). WWF did it to an extent when you had Road Dog wearing South Park T-shirts and such. But overall, it's striking how far behind the wrestling world is.

To counterpoint this, I always thought it was a bit funny that WWE split The Rockers up right as grunge was exploding. I don't think one thing had to do with another, but the irony of it never was lost on me.

[El-P]

To counterpoint this, I always thought it was a bit funny that WWE split The Rockers up right as grunge was exploding. I don't think one thing had to do with another, but the irony of it never was lost on me.

I would have never thought of that.

They did made a grunge character... in 1995... Rad Radford. That was a pretty big fail. At least Raven, despite also showing up only in 1995, had the right look and psych of the GenXer depressed slacker.

The HeadBangers were a bit more in synch with pop culture though I admit. Antichrist Superstars was released in 96, they showed up in 97 wearing Manson's T-shirts, that was neat. Of course they got created by Cornette earlier on in SMW, but I never saw them here, so I don't know what they looked like back then. It would be hilarious to think Corny in freaking SMW was more in tune with pop culture.

[El-P]

While we are talking about Reed, why did they break up Doom? To push Ron?

Pretty much. As soon as Lex gets the belt and turns heel, the first challenger is Simmons, fresh off.... doing nothing of note after the Doom split.

 

 

As a kid I was super impressed he beat Oz so easily.

 

They did a pretty strong job building Simmons though, and the 2/3 falls match at HH was way better than I remembered it to be. A good case of using the 2/3 falls to hide the weaknesses of the workers, as Simmons was good mostly in short explosive bursts, and Luger couldn't carry a match. Really, the idea that Luger was not any good after a great 1989 has been shattered going through WCW TV in context. Late 91, he's still delivering in a match against Simmons that just didn't look good on paper at all.