kjh Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 The problem becomes in one or two years time what do you do when you have no Undertaker around to be a key hook of the PPV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 The problem becomes in one or two years time what do you do when you have no Undertaker around to be a key hook of the PPV? The Miz. Dear Lord... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 -Mania is the premier name WWE PPV show. It becoming too associated with Undertaker is a problem. Mania becoming the Taker PPV feels like something that needs to be separated. Ideally promotion is building Mania around their main storylines and not around Taker. I'd argue this is less of a problem caused by the continuation of the streak and more a problem and more a problem of WWE booking apathy. The streak is at a point where a Taker match at Mania pretty much books itself, and having that match as part of the overall package is definitely a good thing for Mania. But in terms of setting up the other matches from their main storylines to build the show around...did they even really try to do that this year? The Edge/Del Rio feud felt like an afterthought for the most part, and the Cena/Miz stuff felt less about their rivalry and more about what The Rock was going to do. The Taker match gave them a sure thing, so it became the Taker show by default, but it's not the streak's fault that WWE Creative was going through the motions on the biggest show of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest robgomm Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Meltzer has Taker and HHH retiring in the next year. So the streak is either going to end next year, or Taker is going to Londos/Mil it, or in 2-5 years after retirement Vince will drop a load of cash on him to come back for Mania... in which case the Streak would likely get extended. Â John Yeah, they may want to keep the streak open for that sort of possibility. If you end it, you rule out a potential serious drawing match 5 years from now, even if Taker can't do then what he can just about physically do now in these matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted April 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 The problem becomes in one or two years time what do you do when you have no Undertaker around to be a key hook of the PPV?The WWE would notice likely drops in attendance when Taker leaves, but it will be like any other megastar they've had, they will recover and soldier on. Who else (besides Cole) has an undefeated streak at WrestleMania? The Miz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Virgil has a 100% Mania record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't think they will ever end the Streak. I think Undertaker will retire undefeated at Wrestlemania. Like other posters have stated, there is just no right way to the end the streak anymore, even a talented rookie ending it would do nothing for them. I do agree with points that other posters have made about Wrestlemania needing to tone down from just being about Undertaker. I think that the Undertaker match needs to be in the middle of the card, although his matches usually steal the show, I think if WWE made more effort to put on a main event that had an exciting build, then it would make all the difference. Lets look at recent Wrestlemania's where Taker hasn't been involved in the main event, but stolen the show. Â Wrestlemania 23: Shawn Michaels Vs John Cena (Undertaker Vs Batista recieved numerous match of the year awards and was arguably the match on the show that the fans were most invested in) Wrestlemania 25: Randy Orton Vs Triple H (Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker completely stole the show, a 30 minute classic which contained everything that a good wrestling should have. Triple H Vs Orton meanwhile, was a complete borefest, the crowd was dead, the wrestlers did nothing but have a brawl and Triple H won decidedly, with no kickouts) Wrestlemania 27: John Cena Vs The Miz (Arguably one of the most promising, but disappointing Wrestlemanias. Undertaker Vs Triple H stole the show, no other match, with the exception of maybe Rey Mysterio Vs Cody Rhodes and/or Edge Vs Alberto Del Rio, contained any real substance. John Cena Vs Miz, failed to promote any interest and the match itself was more about The Rock) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 We really need to stop using the term "stole the show" for matches that are massively pushed and that no one is surprised were good. Â Was anyone really surprised that Taker-Shawn I was a match that people liked? Â Or that Taker and Trip would pull out all the stops to have something that could follow the last two matches with Shawn? If not "top", at least not look like dogshit to fans relative to the last few Taker Mania matches? Â Did people really have the Star Calculator out for Cena-Miz thinking that it was going to be Misawa-Kobashi? Â If folks think Taker-Trip might bust their ass to have a good match in a massively pushed match, and folks weren't exactly thinking Cena-Miz was a dunker MOTYC on paper... then there's no stealing. Â Fan X: "Flair and Steamboat really stole the show at Clash of the Champions VI." jdw: "You're kidding me, right? It was the most pushed match on the card." Fan X: "Well... they had the best match on the card." jdw: "And you were expecting JYD vs Reed to be better? Admit it: you're fucking with me, right?" Fan X: "Um... er..." Â Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 There was a lot of doubt as to whether or not HHH and Taker could have a match that lived up to the buildup and the legacy of Taker's matches with Michaels. Taker is pretty crippled at this point, even by his standards and HHH has never been THAT good. It's a miracle that the match was any good, much less comparable to the Michaels matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 It was one of the three most pushed matches: Taker-Trip, Lawler-Cole, Cena-Miz-Rock. One can argue about where each one fit in, but clearly Taker-Trip was extremely pushed. This wasn't a Mania where there was a Hogan-Andre and everything else paled.  Of the other pushed matches, neither of them was a MOTYC On Paper. Despite the injuries, pretty much everyone has seen Taker "suck it up" to have matches that folks/fans like despite being a mess. I suspect everyone also knew this would be a theatrical dramatic as all hell match that was going to at least *attempt* to be a worthy Taker Mania Streak Match.  Who exactly were they stealing the show from?  It would be like saying Hansen-Kawada stole the show on the 2/93 Budokan. They weren't in the main event. Misawa was defending the TC in the main. But:  * it was Taue in there with Misawa, and he'd never mained Budokan in a singles * Hansen-Kawada won a big award the last time they were against each other in a single * it wasn't like Hansen or Kawada wasn't going to try to have a good match  It wasn't the Most Pushed match on the card, but it was pushed fairly strong relative to other storylines. It wasn't the Main Event, but popped into the Semi at a time when AJPW often put pretty damn good matches into Semis/Double Main Events.  When I think of Stealing The Show, I'd think more along the lines of the 06/05/89 Footloose vs Can-Ams if Jumbo-Tenryu happened to suck. It's not like people didn't think the tag match didn't have a shot to be good, but folks probably didn't think *that* good. It was the 7th match on an 11 match card, with the following above it:  * big push for Sting, who was given a fairly well push recent addition in Spivey as an opponent * "dream match" of Hansen & Gordy vs the Bulldogs * "top match in the promotion" of Jumbo-Tenryu  Footloose vs Can-Ams was for belts that kind of meant extremely little in All Japan prior to the Footloose getting them. Can-Ams were just getting their push going.  I don't remember the Yatsu-Takano storyline, which was positioned between the All Asian Tag match and the Sting-Spivey. Down below, MomotoMania was getting a push.  One could say Footloose vs Can-Ams stole the card prior to the main event... and that's pretty close to an example of what we mean by Stole The Show. Of course the main was great, and it turned into a card with two hardcore favorites.  I don't think anyone would say Taker-Trip was like that. Probably the opposite: it was the Jumbo-Tenryu, and if they had a spectacle it clearly was going to end up the memorable match of the night.  John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 By the way, I wish more people would check out Sting vs Spivey. They had a really fun match that makes me wonder what would've happened if the WCW/AJPW relationship didn't collapse and Sting ended up touring somewhat regularly as Baba had wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Yeah, Spivey-Sting is a fun match. It and Spivey-Lex are kind of eye openers in the "Damn... Danny was pretty decent there for a stretch... how in the hell did that happen?" way. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Slightly Off Topic, but people tend to bring up Triple H's Wrestlemania losing streak. So I thought i'd examine it. Â Wrestlemania 12: Loss (Vs Ultimate Warrior) Wrestlemania 13: Win (Vs Goldust) Wrestlemania 14: Win (Vs Owen Hart) Wrestlemania 15: Loss (Vs Kane) Wrestlemania 16: Win (Vs The Rock/Mick Foley/Big Show) Wrestlemania 17: Loss (Vs Undertaker) Wrestlemania 18: Win (Vs Chris Jericho) Wrestlemania 19: Win (Vs Booker T) Wrestlemania 20: Loss (Vs Chris Benoit/Shawn Michaels) Wrestlemania 21: Loss (Vs Batista) Wrestlemania 22: Loss (Vs John Cena) Wrestlemania 24: Loss (Vs Randy Orton/John Cena) Wrestlemania 25: Win (Vs Randy Orton) Wrestlemania 26: Win (Vs Sheamus) Wrestlemania 27: Loss (Vs Undertaker) Â As you can see, so far, Triple H has appeared at 15 Wrestlemanias and has 7 Wins and 8 Losses. He did have a four year losing streak, which maybe a bit strange for a performer of his caliber. The point is, if Triple H is planning retirement after next years Wrestlemania (as its being rumored), then would his ego drive him to having a balanced Win/Loss ratio? Or would he Wrestle (sorry 'Entertain') a Retirement Stipulation match? Especially against the Undertaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted April 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Wrestlemania 18: Win (Vs Chris Jericho) Wrestlemania 19: Win (Vs Booker T) Wrestlemania 20: Loss (Vs Chris Benoit/Shawn Michaels) Wrestlemania 21: Loss (Vs Batista) Wrestlemania 22: Loss (Vs John Cena) Wrestlemania 24: Loss (Vs Randy Orton/John Cena) Wrestlemania 25: Win (Vs Randy Orton) Were all title matches. I had lost track of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kowking Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 It was one of the three most pushed matches: Taker-Trip, Lawler-Cole, Cena-Miz-Rock. One can argue about where each one fit in, but clearly Taker-Trip was extremely pushed. This wasn't a Mania where there was a Hogan-Andre and everything else paled. Punk-Orton was massively pushed, too, but I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Random . . . but where can one get their hands on Sting-Spivey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Random . . . but where can one get their hands on Sting-Spivey? Fredo among others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 There is a Sting in Japan thing at Pro Wrestling torrents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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